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Leith Walk tram line extension blocked by the SNP

hope even your no' trying tae blame the SNP for this one G. EU directive that a government of any persuasion wid be legally bound tae conform tae

The SNP govern to a large extent Scotland and now have more powers to do so. I support anything they do that benefits workers and their families T and will be the first to say so. I did when Blair was in power in the UK, however as a Labour Party member never held back and would never do so opposing vigorously anything which was not.

Do you really think that the Abellio the international arm of the Dutch national rail operator Nederlandse Spoorwegen, were not amazed that the Scottish government did not choose to delay the recent tendering process for Scotrail, which the RMT asked be put back until after the full extent of the powers contained in the Scotland Bill were finalised. That was a lack of political will in my opinion. Here ye go amigos 10 year contract to a Dutch State owned rail operator. Others have more noose and determination.Nederlandse Spoorwegen, which I travelled on extensively last week, holds the concessions for main lines until at least 2025 and I expect that will be extended despite any EU directive. Where there's a will there's a way as they say.

As to CalMac, the SNP could have more fully explored the Teckal Exemption, which the Dutch and other Governments have used, which allows publicly run companies to operate services without the need for a tendering process. I have never once heard the SNP speaking out loudly saying that our public services should remain public.I've heard bloody rhetoric and seen the opposite in action in the here and now. I don't think that they believe it or perhaps havenae the balls to say so. Hiding behind EU regulations, or 'we have to make cuts because it's Westminster's fault' may sit nae bother with Nats but it disnae with me. Even the cuts/job losses which the Community charge freeze has undoubtedly contributed to in my opinion does not exempt Labour and Nat cooncillors in the Coalition in Edinburgh getting off their erses and to campaign against the Scottish Government strategy. I guess it's easier to blame than do something about it.

It goes without saying that most Nats will have read the much heralded ' Scotland's Future - The Scottish Government' which is the SNP's White Paper on Independence two years ago this month. I did and it was apparent to me that that they have zero commitment to bringing Scotland's rail network into public ownership getting instead some woeful baloney, and I've looked it up to remind myself, after Independence they will look at, quote “the best ownership model for rail and track for the benefit of the people of Scotland.” Well if I were a Nat activist or Corbyn for that matter, I would be asking if they will publicly match Labours commitment to do so.

SNP members of which there are a huge number more than this time last year should be reminded that the SNP have the same position as the Tories on regulation of buses. This is already devolved so nae excuses. Just a recap. The rank and file delegates, ordinary SNP members voted at their 2007 Conference to re-regulate the Scottish bus network. Another progressive move I supported. Alas and to the astonishment of many activists it did not get a peep in the SNP manifesto. The same year Stagecoach co-owner businessman, philanthropist and fucking homophobe Brian Souter donated £500,000 at the SNP's pre-election conference in Glasgow.

That's just the way it is.

BIG G
 
The SNP govern to a large extent Scotland and now have more powers to do so. I support anything they do that benefits workers and their families T and will be the first to say so. I did when Blair was in power in the UK, however as a Labour Party member never held back and would never do so opposing vigorously anything which was not.

Do you really think that the Abellio the international arm of the Dutch national rail operator Nederlandse Spoorwegen, were not amazed that the Scottish government did not choose to delay the recent tendering process for Scotrail, which the RMT asked be put back until after the full extent of the powers contained in the Scotland Bill were finalised. That was a lack of political will in my opinion. Here ye go amigos 10 year contract to a Dutch State owned rail operator. Others have more noose and determination.Nederlandse Spoorwegen, which I travelled on extensively last week, holds the concessions for main lines until at least 2025 and I expect that will be extended despite any EU directive. Where there's a will there's a way as they say.

As to CalMac, the SNP could have more fully explored the Teckal Exemption, which the Dutch and other Governments have used, which allows publicly run companies to operate services without the need for a tendering process. I have never once heard the SNP speaking out loudly saying that our public services should remain public.I've heard bloody rhetoric and seen the opposite in action in the here and now. I don't think that they believe it or perhaps havenae the balls to say so. Hiding behind EU regulations, or 'we have to make cuts because it's Westminster's fault' may sit nae bother with Nats but it disnae with me. Even the cuts/job losses which the Community charge freeze has undoubtedly contributed to in my opinion does not exempt Labour and Nat cooncillors in the Coalition in Edinburgh getting off their erses and to campaign against the Scottish Government strategy. I guess it's easier to blame than do something about it.

It goes without saying that most Nats will have read the much heralded ' Scotland's Future - The Scottish Government' which is the SNP's White Paper on Independence two years ago this month. I did and it was apparent to me that that they have zero commitment to bringing Scotland's rail network into public ownership getting instead some woeful baloney, and I've looked it up to remind myself, after Independence they will look at, quote “the best ownership model for rail and track for the benefit of the people of Scotland.” Well if I were a Nat activist or Corbyn for that matter, I would be asking if they will publicly match Labours commitment to do so.

SNP members of which there are a huge number more than this time last year should be reminded that the SNP have the same position as the Tories on regulation of buses. This is already devolved so nae excuses. Just a recap. The rank and file delegates, ordinary SNP members voted at their 2007 Conference to re-regulate the Scottish bus network. Another progressive move I supported. Alas and to the astonishment of many activists it did not get a peep in the SNP manifesto. The same year Stagecoach co-owner businessman, philanthropist and fucking homophobe Brian Souter donated £500,000 at the SNP's pre-election conference in Glasgow.

That's just the way it is.

BIG G

Some interesting points made there Gordon, have never heard of Teckal so will go and have a gander.

Agree re: Souter, what a **** of a man.
 
The SNP govern to a large extent Scotland and now have more powers to do so. I support anything they do that benefits workers and their families T and will be the first to say so. I did when Blair was in power in the UK, however as a Labour Party member never held back and would never do so opposing vigorously anything which was not.

Do you really think that the Abellio the international arm of the Dutch national rail operator Nederlandse Spoorwegen, were not amazed that the Scottish government did not choose to delay the recent tendering process for Scotrail, which the RMT asked be put back until after the full extent of the powers contained in the Scotland Bill were finalised. That was a lack of political will in my opinion. Here ye go amigos 10 year contract to a Dutch State owned rail operator. Others have more noose and determination.Nederlandse Spoorwegen, which I travelled on extensively last week, holds the concessions for main lines until at least 2025 and I expect that will be extended despite any EU directive. Where there's a will there's a way as they say.

As to CalMac, the SNP could have more fully explored the Teckal Exemption, which the Dutch and other Governments have used, which allows publicly run companies to operate services without the need for a tendering process. I have never once heard the SNP speaking out loudly saying that our public services should remain public.I've heard bloody rhetoric and seen the opposite in action in the here and now. I don't think that they believe it or perhaps havenae the balls to say so. Hiding behind EU regulations, or 'we have to make cuts because it's Westminster's fault' may sit nae bother with Nats but it disnae with me. Even the cuts/job losses which the Community charge freeze has undoubtedly contributed to in my opinion does not exempt Labour and Nat cooncillors in the Coalition in Edinburgh getting off their erses and to campaign against the Scottish Government strategy. I guess it's easier to blame than do something about it.

It goes without saying that most Nats will have read the much heralded ' Scotland's Future - The Scottish Government' which is the SNP's White Paper on Independence two years ago this month. I did and it was apparent to me that that they have zero commitment to bringing Scotland's rail network into public ownership getting instead some woeful baloney, and I've looked it up to remind myself, after Independence they will look at, quote “the best ownership model for rail and track for the benefit of the people of Scotland.” Well if I were a Nat activist or Corbyn for that matter, I would be asking if they will publicly match Labours commitment to do so.

SNP members of which there are a huge number more than this time last year should be reminded that the SNP have the same position as the Tories on regulation of buses. This is already devolved so nae excuses. Just a recap. The rank and file delegates, ordinary SNP members voted at their 2007 Conference to re-regulate the Scottish bus network. Another progressive move I supported. Alas and to the astonishment of many activists it did not get a peep in the SNP manifesto. The same year Stagecoach co-owner businessman, philanthropist and fucking homophobe Brian Souter donated £500,000 at the SNP's pre-election conference in Glasgow.

That's just the way it is.

BIG G
cannae argue aboot souter G, but having said that ,unfortunately all parties have rich arseholes supporting them wi' far too much influence. The fact o' the matter is G that Corbyn is an electoral nonentity in Scotland because he's nae chance o' getting voted in doon here, far too left wing for the shires, and the government that Engerland wants,Scotland gets. there's only one way tae change that, ye ken it makes sense
 
Know a few folk have quoted me re: schools sorry for ignoring but in hindsight shouldn't have used the death of an Edinburgh girl on an Edinburgh football teams forum to make a point when there's a good chance someone reading might know the family or have kids at the school.

Live Forever Keane x
 
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/leith-walk-tram-line-extension-blocked-by-the-snp-1-3943716

I'll leave it to the Nats on here to support this move. Perhaps they can explain why Nat Councillors in the so called 'coalition' on the Cooncil voted for compulsory redundancies (2000 people). The Scottish Government Community Charge freeze will cost the Cooncil £140,000,000. Utterly bizarre policy up there with the Scottish Governments nutty proposal for me to pay less for my flight to Tenerife.

BIG G

As potentially one of the 2000 i was unaware that this decision had been voted through as i attended a Unison rally outside the Chambers only last Thursday to protest against compulsory redundancies? What i do know though that as it was "Nat Councillors" that voted to keep oor jobs in-house and opposed the City Of Edinburgh high management to 'sell us off' to the private sector, this was only last month and not for the first time, they also done the same around two years ago.
 
Know a few folk have quoted me re: schools sorry for ignoring but in hindsight shouldn't have used the death of an Edinburgh girl on an Edinburgh football teams forum to make a point when there's a good chance someone reading might know the family or have kids at the school.

Live Forever Keane x

Was about to get all hot and bothered re your posts (but for a change I read right doon the thread).

Well done for posting this T_P :thumbgrin

have some rep :thumbgrin
 
As potentially one of the 2000 i was unaware that this decision had been voted through as i attended a Unison rally outside the Chambers only last Thursday to protest against compulsory redundancies? What i do know though that as it was "Nat Councillors" that voted to keep oor jobs in-house and opposed the City Of Edinburgh high management to 'sell us off' to the private sector, this was only last month and not for the first time, they also done the same around two years ago.

The full Council will vote on this issue shortly. It was a member of the Finance and Resources Committee who told me that he/she was the only person on it to argue against Compulsory redundancy. Others both Labour and SNP did not and does not bode well. Hopefully the demo and threat of industrial action has concentrated some minds. It's false to imply that it was Nat Councillors that exclusively voted not to privatise Facility Management last month or other services two years ago G. As the Scotsman reported at the time.....''

''PLANS to outsource services supplied by Edinburgh City Council’s maintenance, catering and porter staff to save tens of millions of pounds were abandoned yesterday after SNP and Labour councillors put aside party differences to vote them down.

The two parties, along with Green Party councillors, supported an amendment to abandon the transfer of integrated facilities management services to a private firm.''


What I do now is that the same Council has been starved of £190,000,000 since the introduction of the Council Tax freeze. As Unison correctly points out.....''The Scottish Government claims that the council tax freeze is “vital lifeline to hard pressed Scots”. This is not the case. The freeze disproportionally benefits the wealthy; while charges are being increased and services cut''

BIG G
.
 
Council tax is not fit for purpose. SNP manifesto said it wouldn't be raised.

So you're demanding they break a manifesto promise and potentially heap more woe on those in the queue at the food bank. ..


This would be Dugdales line at every FMQS forever.

Ideally a new form of local income tax should be brought in
 
Federal UK? FUK? No chance.IMO.

I think federalism is the only way the UK can survive. Scottish Politics whatever it's configuration in terms of the governing party at Westminster and Holyrood is now always going to be about grievance. Unless either Labour or the Tories wake up to this reality and the subsequent growth in Independence appeal then independence really is inevitable.

- - - Updated - - -

Council tax is not fit for purpose. SNP manifesto said it wouldn't be raised.

So you're demanding they break a manifesto promise and potentially heap more woe on those in the queue at the food bank. ..


This would be Dugdales line at every FMQS forever.

Ideally a new form of local income tax should be brought in

Eh? FFS they said they'd scrap the Council Tax and felt more than comfortable breaking that election pledge and promise.

No?

- - - Updated - - -

Finally! You're on board! Can I count on you to doorstep with me during the next referendum? [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not quite mate!
 
I've no idea whether it's a good or bad decision to delay extending the trams. It's clear to me that the first part of the project from the Airport to the town is really just there to go from the airport to offices at Edinburgh Park and Gogarburn.

That said, a line from Newhaven to town would serve real people and seems not that expensive at the price quoted.

Big G previously denounced the trams as a vanity project (and I now think he may have had a point) so it's interesting to see him upset that the SNP have blocked further development for now. :detective:
 
The SNP were against the trams at the outset. The over-budget fiasco has left the council with a budget shortfall for the next 30 years as they try to pay off the loan, and interest, needed to finish the job. A shortfall that has resulted in the need to shed 2,000 council jobs.

Quite how the SNP can be brought into question for refusing to put itself into even more debt to finish a Labour fiasco that it has inherited is quite mystifying.
 
I've no idea whether it's a good or bad decision to delay extending the trams. It's clear to me that the first part of the project from the Airport to the town is really just there to go from the airport to offices at Edinburgh Park and Gogarburn.

That said, a line from Newhaven to town would serve real people and seems not that expensive at the price quoted.

Big G previously denounced the trams as a vanity project (and I now think he may have had a point) so it's interesting to see him upset that the SNP have blocked further development for now. :detective:

I still think that it was a vanity project and you are spot on about real people should be the main benefactors of what was originally proposed. From start to finish the tram project was a shambles as we all know and at double the original cost, not value for money......however, however years of disruption in Leith Walk endured by the plebs in the North of the City, small businesses that were hammered to allow ancient services to be moved should not be forgotten and shrugged off as ' oh well they fucked up and that's life.

The utility works have been paid for, the trams are bought and I agree with MSP Malcolm Chisholm when he says “Completion of the tram line to Leith and Newhaven should be a priority for investment by national government and the council should be looking to see if there are other sources of funding too.” He added: “The council does have massive financial difficulties at the moment and it’s not for me to say what decisions it should make immediately. But in the longer term, it is financially necessary and will happen. That’s the only way to increase the customer base.”

If the figures are to believed at £144m, with real checks and balances to ensure on time and cost delivery, that figure is a tenth of the final cost of the main project. The Scottish government should help fund this.

What pisses me off about the Nat councillors is that whilst saying that “The business case just has not been made, and we should forget the extension.” they know as well as I do that the business plan points out that much of the infrastructure for the extension is already in place including many plots of land acquired by the council, however just as importantly if the project is postponed indefinitely is that its legal powers to acquire land between Granton and Newhaven will expire next May.

It also gives me no pleasure that the Labour group will bottle it if the Nats oppose, in the interests of the Capital Coalition unity. Deary me.

It can be argued that losers in all this are all of us, however in the here in now, a cursory look at the original proposals, the winners are Tourists, folk travelling to the centre of Edinburgh, West Siders who work or live in areas surrounding Gogarburn,The Gyle, Edinburgh Park, Bankhead, Saughton, Murrayfield and Haymarket. Loosers folk who had there business badly effected and punters in Leith Walk and surrounding areas, those who work or live in areas surrounding Picardy Place,McDonald Road, Balfour Street, Foot of the Walk, Bernard Street, Port o Leith, Ocean Terminal, Newhaven and Lower Granton,(all proposed stops). If this does not go ahead the further extension to Granton, Saltire Square, Caroline Park, West Pilton, Crewe Toll. Telford Road, Craigpark can kiss its ass goodbye.

BIG G

- - - Updated - - -

The SNP were against the trams at the outset. The over-budget fiasco has left the council with a budget shortfall for the next 30 years as they try to pay off the loan, and interest, needed to finish the job. A shortfall that has resulted in the need to shed 2,000 council jobs.

Quite how the SNP can be brought into question for refusing to put itself into even more debt to finish a Labour fiasco that it has inherited is quite mystifying.

Hold on are you seriously telling me that these proposed job losses could not have been avoided if the Edinburgh Council had been allowed to collect the missing £190,000,000 which Council Tax freezing has resulted in. A populist action with grave consequences for Councils, without trams, throughout Scotland and will be looked back on as an utter folly in future.

BIG G
 
Our schools are so decrepit they are literally killing our children but it's much easier to blame the English than make unpopular decisions.

I carry out regular surveys of Scotland's schools, they are not decrepit.
 
Why is all the talk about trams going down A, sorry THE very best serviced bus route down Leith? The 22 is about every 3 mins by the amount I see.
The first tram line to be axed was IMO the most important one.. Centre of town past the main unis, and onto the main hospital.
The south side of the city is alarmingly left to rot, service wise, all routes in and out, gilmerton rd, Dalkeith rd are ridiculously busy with all east and Midlothian traffic jamming in
Not a cycle track to speak of.. Whereas the leith/newhaven area is very well serviced for buses and off road cycle tracks everywhere...
Clearly the royal infirmary along with the new sick kids, is of more need to the general public and add in the Universities then to me more important than to help developers sell houses down Leith way....
The wrong line got cancelled first IMO it was all about tourists and developers, not where it was most needed.
 
Some interesting points made there Gordon, have never heard of Teckal so will go and have a gander.

Agree re: Souter, what a **** of a man.

Have a wee look at who else was bidding on the Scotrail franchise M, worth a gander.
 
Why is all the talk about trams going down A, sorry THE very best serviced bus route down Leith? The 22 is about every 3 mins by the amount I see.
The first tram line to be axed was IMO the most important one.. Centre of town past the main unis, and onto the main hospital.
The south side of the city is alarmingly left to rot, service wise, all routes in and out, gilmerton rd, Dalkeith rd are ridiculously busy with all east and Midlothian traffic jamming in
Not a cycle track to speak of.. Whereas the leith/newhaven area is very well serviced for buses and off road cycle tracks everywhere...
Clearly the royal infirmary along with the new sick kids, is of more need to the general public and add in the Universities then to me more important than to help developers sell houses down Leith way....
The wrong line got cancelled first IMO it was all about tourists and developers, not where it was most needed.
I'd cancel the Granton-Roseburn loop and run Newhaven-Infirmary instead :thumbgrin
 
I'd cancel the Granton-Roseburn loop and run Newhaven-Infirmary instead :thumbgrin

I do think the Infirmary with the new sick kids right beside it is the most needed place for general public, read OAPs and families with kids, in the times of stress etc
 
Tram from infirmary to western general makes the most sense
 
Tram from infirmary to western general makes the most sense
It does but there's no chance it's going through Stockbridge or up Orchard Brae,the Roseburn path takes you near the back entrance but there's no danger you'd consider using it to get to the Hospital.
 
It does but there's no chance it's going through Stockbridge or up Orchard Brae,the Roseburn path takes you near the back entrance but there's no danger you'd consider using it to get to the Hospital.

Not In My Back Yard :giggle:
 
It does but there's no chance it's going through Stockbridge or up Orchard Brae,the Roseburn path takes you near the back entrance but there's no danger you'd consider using it to get to the Hospital.

Along Raeburn place and up up Kerr Street, they could knock down all the buildings on the left hand side to make the road wider.:077::rascal:
 
Tram from infirmary to western general makes the most sense

You can only be in one hospital at a time - what's your rational thinking behind this Mark?
 
Hold on are you seriously telling me that these proposed job losses could not have been avoided if the Edinburgh Council had been allowed to collect the missing £190,000,000 which Council Tax freezing has resulted in. A populist action with grave consequences for Councils, without trams, throughout Scotland and will be looked back on as an utter folly in future

It seems to me that you are saying that 5 million Scots should be forced to chip in extra money, some that can ill afford it, to save the jobs of 2,000 Edinburgh council workers that are facing unemployment because of a Labour administration fuck up?
Still can't see how you can be painting the SNP as the bad guys in this.
 
It does but there's no chance it's going through Stockbridge or up Orchard Brae,the Roseburn path takes you near the back entrance but there's no danger you'd consider using it to get to the Hospital.

True. It could come from the north though? Along the coast ( as planned!) then up Crewe Rd N or Granton Access Rd(?). Use existing track at the other end to run it via Kinnaird Park, the back Niddrie/Greendykes to the Infirmary. A wee bit of foresight from the council ( along with private investment, which would be needed) could even continue the track thru Moredun/Gracemount/sighthill to meet the gyle, possibly even continue it to Queensferry Road to meet the other end at the Western. A kinda 21st #12 , the ultimate circle bus route.

Btw I'd also sell the Western General, which is certainly not fit for purpose ( except the staff, who are simply tremendous) and build social housing/business park- then build a lovely new Western at the Gyle or even the land behind the Morrisons on Granton Rd.

You can only be in one hospital at a time - what's your rational thinking behind this Mark?

Not sure about rational Bomber, but over the last 2/3 years I've spent many many hours trudging the corridors in both hospitals- the Western in particular. There's many a time when treatments/people/beds/facilities are available at one site when you're at the other.There's already a bus service between the two that takes as long as you imagine it does, and if you're unwell ( but not unwell enough for an ambulance) and don't have private transportation, or if you're old and pretty weak, getting between the two is arduous.

Plus, both are sited in heavily populated areas- round the infirmary is going to get even moreso- so connect two hospitals, run it thru heavily populated areas and show some forward thinking.
 
True. It could come from the north though? Along the coast ( as planned!) then up Crewe Rd N or Granton Access Rd(?). Use existing track at the other end to run it via Kinnaird Park, the back Niddrie/Greendykes to the Infirmary. A wee bit of foresight from the council ( along with private investment, which would be needed) could even continue the track thru Moredun/Gracemount/sighthill to meet the gyle, possibly even continue it to Queensferry Road to meet the other end at the Western. A kinda 21st #12 , the ultimate circle bus route.

Btw I'd also sell the Western General, which is certainly not fit for purpose ( except the staff, who are simply tremendous) and build social housing/business park- then build a lovely new Western at the Gyle or even the land behind the Morrisons on Granton Rd.



Not sure about rational Bomber, but over the last 2/3 years I've spent many many hours trudging the corridors in both hospitals- the Western in particular. There's many a time when treatments/people/beds/facilities are available at one site when you're at the other.There's already a bus service between the two that takes as long as you imagine it does, and if you're unwell ( but not unwell enough for an ambulance) and don't have private transportation, or if you're old and pretty weak, getting between the two is arduous.

Plus, both are sited in heavily populated areas- round the infirmary is going to get even moreso- so connect two hospitals, run it thru heavily populated areas and show some forward thinking.

I don't think you could justify spending more millions on a tram line for that reason alone and of course the line would have to be connected to the existing line.

Perhaps a direct bus service with limited stops would be a better alternative. Ie the same distance as the trams stop.

EDIT: I don't think the council should justify spending anymore money on the trams anywhere. Edinburgh has a fantastic bus service even more so if you consider the amount of buses that already service the length of Leith walk - if that's where the next proposal was to be.
 
I don't think you could justify spending more millions on a tram line for that reason alone and of course the line would have to be connected to the existing line.

Perhaps a direct bus service with limited stops would be a better alternative. Ie the same distance as the trams stop.

It's not that reason alone though? It would run thru populated areas- the south of Edinburgh in particular thru areas of lower incomes who would benefit, plus the areas around the current hospitals are only only to get more heavily populated thru time.

I'd also repeat the electrifying of the suburban line to tie (lol) in with the tram would make more sense than anything, which is a reason why it'll never happen.
 
Tram from infirmary to western general makes the most sense

Definitely, bout time the council puts the needs of the city residents before developers and tourists
 
I was a supporter of the tram idea but disgusted as anyone at how it turned out. Now we've started we have to really go for it tho. Can't shout 'foodbanks' to halt progress all the time. I bet there were Londoners appalled at their streets getting tore up and obscene amounts of money being spent while there was slums, starving children, workhouses, slave labour and appalling health conditions - but the city would be chaos and cease to function if we closed the underground today.

Think Scottish/UK govt and council should show a bit of ambition on this one.
 
See while we're on the subject of the trams and their lines, why did the powers-that-be spend (and continue to spend) millions(billions?) on this white elephant to get tourists from the airport to the city centre?

There is a main rail line that borders the airport perimeter. All it would have taken was a fraction of the cost to put a spur line directly into the airport terminal like a lot of other airports do. I can cite Munich and Geneva as examples.

As a passenger/visitor, you get off a plane, get through the security and baggage reclaim and head to the rail platform either outside the terminal, or in the case of Geneva, take an escalator down to the platforms underneath the terminal itself. Heathrow, Stanstead and Gatwick are all similar, so why not Edinburgh? In fact why not Glasgow as well instead of having to negotiate motorway traffic?
It is fuckin bonkers and typical of the mentality of this shambles of a country.
 
I was a supporter of the tram idea but disgusted as anyone at how it turned out. Now we've started we have to really go for it tho. Can't shout 'foodbanks' to halt progress all the time. I bet there were Londoners appalled at their streets getting tore up and obscene amounts of money being spent while there was slums, starving children, workhouses, slave labour and appalling health conditions - but the city would be chaos and cease to function if we closed the underground today.

Think Scottish/UK govt and council should show a bit of ambition on this one.


Totally agree with the underground and London. I'll tell you what though, Edinburgh would not cease to function without added tram lines or for that matter the trams that are already in existence.
 
I was a supporter of the tram idea but disgusted as anyone at how it turned out. Now we've started we have to really go for it tho. Can't shout 'foodbanks' to halt progress all the time. I bet there were Londoners appalled at their streets getting tore up and obscene amounts of money being spent while there was slums, starving children, workhouses, slave labour and appalling health conditions - but the city would be chaos and cease to function if we closed the underground today.

Think Scottish/UK govt and council should show a bit of ambition on this one.

I suppose you could suggest that investing in the infrastructure of the city can stimulate growth in areas that otherwise might not benefit. Having a tram line running thru Pilton or Greendykes might encourage a company to build a factory in those areas, or allow folk in those areas easier access to the job farms like The Gyle easier?

But the only way these things are getting built is if we put our hands in our pockets and pay more taxes. So you'll hear folk moaning about higher taxes and you'll hear folk moaning about lack of infrastructure. Cannae win.

The problems for Edinburgh is the city is so old we don't know what we'll find when we dig down, and we cannae go deep enough for an underground cos the rock is too hard.

And there's too many buses on the roads now, especially during the day. Leith Walk is effectively one long bus, we need to take the strain off the roads/buses.
 
See while we're on the subject of the trams and their lines, why did the powers-that-be spend (and continue to spend) millions(billions?) on this white elephant to get tourists from the airport to the city centre?

There is a main rail line that borders the airport perimeter. All it would have taken was a fraction of the cost to put a spur line directly into the airport terminal like a lot of other airports do. I can cite Munich and Geneva as examples.

As a passenger/visitor, you get off a plane, get through the security and baggage reclaim and head to the rail platform either outside the terminal, or in the case of Geneva, take an escalator down to the platforms underneath the terminal itself. Heathrow, Stanstead and Gatwick are all similar, so why not Edinburgh? In fact why not Glasgow as well instead of having to negotiate motorway traffic?
It is fuckin bonkers and typical of the mentality of this shambles of a country.

Spot on totally bonkers. After the game against the Arabs I was on the first flight next day heading to the Netherlands for Groningen's Europa Cup match that day. Many on here have done that particular journey. What a fuckin delight to to arrive at Schippol, walk to the escalators down to the platforms and within 10 minutes on a train speeding the two hour journey to Tractorland.

It has always puzzled me that folk throughout Scotland who wish to use Edinburgh or Glasgow Airports cannae get a train to them.

BIG G
 
See while we're on the subject of the trams and their lines, why did the powers-that-be spend (and continue to spend) millions(billions?) on this white elephant to get tourists from the airport to the city centre?

There is a main rail line that borders the airport perimeter. All it would have taken was a fraction of the cost to put a spur line directly into the airport terminal like a lot of other airports do. I can cite Munich and Geneva as examples.

As a passenger/visitor, you get off a plane, get through the security and baggage reclaim and head to the rail platform either outside the terminal, or in the case of Geneva, take an escalator down to the platforms underneath the terminal itself. Heathrow, Stanstead and Gatwick are all similar, so why not Edinburgh? In fact why not Glasgow as well instead of having to negotiate motorway traffic?
It is $#@!in bonkers and typical of the mentality of this shambles of a country.

Add Aberdeen airport to that list. Train station right beside it, but at wrong side of the runway. :banger:
 
Totally agree with the underground and London. I'll tell you what though, Edinburgh would not cease to function without added tram lines or for that matter the trams that are already in existence.
Definitely. I was meaning 50+ years time. In the few years I've been living down this way the 19 bus service has went from quiet to creaking at the seams. Strada, New scheme at Ainslie Park, New scheme at old Telford, New scheme getting built at old Spartans, tourists at the Pilton Hilton, retirement village getting built on Boswall road. That's just past 5 years nevermind 50.
 
It has always puzzled me that folk throughout Scotland who wish to use Edinburgh or Glasgow Airports cannae get a train to them.

BIG G

If you think about it, Scotland has too many airports. A wee bit of forward thinking would have built a 3/4 runway airport in the central belt with a superfast trainline between Edinburgh/Glasgow/Aberdeen running thru the middle. A hub for travel and cargo to rival Gatwick.
 
If you think about it, Scotland has too many airports. A wee bit of forward thinking would have built a 3/4 runway airport in the central belt with a superfast trainline between Edinburgh/Glasgow/Aberdeen running thru the middle. A hub for travel and cargo to rival Gatwick.

If nothing else this thread has convinced me M, not that I needed much convincing, that there is not a chance of seeing an integrated transport system in Edinburgh, never mind Scotland, in my lifetime.

BIG G
 
If nothing else this thread has convinced me M, not that I needed much convincing, that there is not a chance of seeing an integrated transport system in Edinburgh, never mind Scotland, in my lifetime.

BIG G

Possibly, but us young guns might :banana:

Anyway, i've just watched the vid in your sig...belter sir :applause:
 
Definitely. I was meaning 50+ years time. In the few years I've been living down this way the 19 bus service has went from quiet to creaking at the seams. Strada, New scheme at Ainslie Park, New scheme at old Telford, New scheme getting built at old Spartans, tourists at the Pilton Hilton, retirement village getting built on Boswall road. That's just past 5 years nevermind 50.

As a regular user of the 19 and 47 heading up town - getting on at the TSB bank i have never seen anyone standing on any of those routes. (not even close) Both bus routes run every 15 minutes and service from where i get on to the West End where there's always a huge exodus of passengers.

Funny enough though, doing the same bus journey from memory in the 70's & early 80's were always rammed. I remember if you were waiting for a bus when Parson's Peebles came out, you would usually have to wait on the next one. also back in the early 70's growing up in Royston and still do there were hardly any cars on the road hence the huge demand for the bus.

Even back in the 30's, 40's and 50's when the trams in Edinburgh where at their most popular, there was never a tram line on said route, not sure as to why there would be enough demand for one now.
 
As a regular user of the 19 and 47 heading up town - getting on at the TSB bank i have never seen anyone standing on any of those routes. (not even close) Both bus routes run every 15 minutes and service from where i get on to the West End where there's always a huge exodus of passengers.

Funny enough though, doing the same bus journey from memory in the 70's & early 80's were always rammed. I remember if you were waiting for a bus when Parson's Peebles came out, you would usually have to wait on the next one. also back in the early 70's growing up in Royston and still do there were hardly any cars on the road hence the huge demand for the bus.

Even back in the 30's, 40's and 50's when the trams in Edinburgh where at their most popular, there was never a tram line on said route, not sure as to why there would be enough demand for one now.
You've not seen anyone standing on a Sunday when it's single decker every 30mins? I've not been on it when it hasn't been rammed at that time or at peak travel time for office workers. (Ironically sending this message from a 19 now and it's admittedly quiet off-peak).

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the benefit to wheelchair users and buggies that the trams have. We've an increasingly aging but independent population and disabled people who are very involved in the community - 1/2 spaces on a bus plus demand from prams isn't fit for purpose. Even tho Edinburgh bus service is the best in the UK I would be reluctant to take my baby anywhere today - stood at too many stops in the rain with three buses going past that I can't get on. Least I can walk home wet if need be not everyone has that option.
 
You've not seen anyone standing on a Sunday when it's single decker every 30mins? I've not been on it when it hasn't been rammed at that time or at peak travel time for office workers. (Ironically sending this message from a 19 now and it's admittedly quiet off-peak).

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the benefit to wheelchair users and buggies that the trams have. We've an increasingly aging but independent population and disabled people who are very involved in the community - 1/2 spaces on a bus plus demand from prams isn't fit for purpose. Even tho Edinburgh bus service is the best in the UK I would be reluctant to take my baby anywhere today - stood at too many stops in the rain with three buses going past that I can't get on. Least I can walk home wet if need be not everyone has that option.

I'd agree with that although I use neither of these two. The newer buses have at least a bit more room on them but could do with more space for disabled folk and prams. As an aside, I was on a bus going to work back when I did that and a person in a wheelchair got on the bus. The bloke sitting in the spot for a wheelchair [seat flips up] didn't bother to move. I was standing nearby and mentioned to him that he was being an ignorant **** and he got up and gave the lassie the space. Fukking disgrace which thankfully only happens on rare occassions.
 

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