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Leith Walk tram line extension blocked by the SNP

egb_hibs

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I've been travelling a bit lately and have seen and sometimes used tram systems around various places. These are extensive and highly effective from what I have seen. It does make you wonder about the shambles in Edinburgh. Had these city's networks been at a similar cost by mile they would have need need budgets measured in the broons of millions which I cant believe is the case. Why can the city of the Scottish enlightenment not run a pish up in a brewery?
 

Wannabehibee

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You've not seen anyone standing on a Sunday when it's single decker every 30mins? I've not been on it when it hasn't been rammed at that time or at peak travel time for office workers. (Ironically sending this message from a 19 now and it's admittedly quiet off-peak).

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the benefit to wheelchair users and buggies that the trams have. We've an increasingly aging but independent population and disabled people who are very involved in the community - 1/2 spaces on a bus plus demand from prams isn't fit for purpose. Even tho Edinburgh bus service is the best in the UK I would be reluctant to take my baby anywhere today - stood at too many stops in the rain with three buses going past that I can't get on. Least I can walk home wet if need be not everyone has that option.
Bring back the good old days when folk had to fold up their prams/buggies to get on the bus. Don't need so much room then.
 

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I've been travelling a bit lately and have seen and sometimes used tram systems around various places. These are extensive and highly effective from what I have seen. It does make you wonder about the shambles in Edinburgh. Had these city's networks been at a similar cost by mile they would have need need budgets measured in the broons of millions which I cant believe is the case. Why can the city of the Scottish enlightenment not run a pish up in a brewery?
Transport Scotland should've been responsible for the whole project,instead they stepped back and let councillors earning 15k a year make decisions...
Labours idea to spend £500m but SNP at fault for not helping it's capital city out when it needed it.
 

egb_hibs

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I'd agree with that although I use neither of these two. The newer buses have at least a bit more room on them but could do with more space for disabled folk and prams. As an aside, I was on a bus going to work back when I did that and a person in a wheelchair got on the bus. The bloke sitting in the spot for a wheelchair [seat flips up] didn't bother to move. I was standing nearby and mentioned to him that he was being an ignorant **** and he got up and gave the lassie the space. Fukking disgrace which thankfully only happens on rare occassions.
Nice bit of civic participation there D, well done. Drivers are just as bad. I mind watching a bar steward watching a wifey pegging up the road to get in his and shaping up to pull away as she got close - seriously the bugger was watching her in his side mirror and poised to literally shut the doors just to piss her off.

So I stepped off the pavement and stood in front of the bus so he couldnae pull away - cue lots of bus driver abuse but by then she got there and he had to let her onI know they have timetables to keep to but it was the deliberate fudspoutery that tugged at my civic duty - besides, my intervention lasted a good 5 seconds or so, she was that close by the time he was ready to stick it to her.
 

The__Proclaimer

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Bring back the good old days when folk had to fold up their prams/buggies to get on the bus. Don't need so much room then.
You can fold up a buggy easy enough cos your kid can usually stand by then and they can collapse with stuff in the bottom. Passing a sleeping month old to a stranger in the rain, removing all your shite from under the pram, removing the carry cot, folding up the frame, putting frame on bus, back out for carry cot & shopping, put that in bus, then back out for the now screaming baby not so ideal at 5pm on a Friday during Hurricane Abigail.
 

Kenny

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Transport Scotland should've been responsible for the whole project,instead they stepped back and let councillors earning 15k a year make decisions...
Labours idea to spend £500m but SNP at fault for not helping it's capital city out when it needed it.
trams bill passed in 2006 by the lab lib coalition....
work signed off by ed council late 2007....

transport scotland only came into existence in jan 2006.

... if the SNP minority govt of 2007 came in boots first and went to war with the Ed lab led council it would be carnage... even at that, Ed council created an umbrella company to run it all through.

Realistically the only way to help would've been to shut it down early ...
 

Dub

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You can fold up a buggy easy enough cos your kid can usually stand by then and they can collapse with stuff in the bottom. Passing a sleeping month old to a stranger in the rain, removing all your shite from under the pram, removing the carry cot, folding up the frame, putting frame on bus, back out for carry cot & shopping, put that in bus, then back out for the now screaming baby not so ideal at 5pm on a Friday during Hurricane Abigail.
It sounds like you have some experience of this Proccie :rollfloor

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If you were one of the 2000 facing their jotters because of it, a foreign holiday will be the last thing on their minds. It also means £140 m cuts in what could be spent on social services.schools,nurseries, etc. Populist bollocks by the SNP government methinks.

BIG G
For all the complaints about EDC not having enough money to run things due to the council tax freeze, it has been reported on the news that EDC state that shellling out all that dough for a tram line extension wouldn't affect their ability to provide services :dunno: Everyone can't be correct.
 

PILTONSTANY

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trams bill passed in 2006 by the lab lib coalition....
work signed off by ed council late 2007....

transport scotland only came into existence in jan 2006.

... if the SNP minority govt of 2007 came in boots first and went to war with the Ed lab led council it would be carnage... even at that, Ed council created an umbrella company to run it all through.

Realistically the only way to help would've been to shut it down early ...
Yeah but by 2011/12 the City/Trams were in obvious trouble,a pragmatic gov should've stepped in and sorted it out instead of playing politics...
 

The__Proclaimer

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It sounds like you have some experience of this Proccie :rollfloor
That shit is bad but been on the other end sitting in the space with a dude in a wheelchair and seeing a lassie and her baby have to stand in the freezing cold late at night for the next bus. Feel brutal. Newer ones have two spaces but still not enough and it'll be years til the entire fleets upgraded.
 

Sunshine on Leith

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That $#@! is bad but been on the other end sitting in the space with a dude in a wheelchair and seeing a lassie and her baby have to stand in the freezing cold late at night for the next bus. Feel brutal. Newer ones have two spaces but still not enough and it'll be years til the entire fleets upgraded.
May be wrong Proccie from what i think you're saying, it would be better to ditch the buses altogether and replace all routes with trams?

Apologies if not.
 

hibadelic

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See while we're on the subject of the trams and their lines, why did the powers-that-be spend (and continue to spend) millions(billions?) on this white elephant to get tourists from the airport to the city centre?

There is a main rail line that borders the airport perimeter. All it would have taken was a fraction of the cost to put a spur line directly into the airport terminal like a lot of other airports do. I can cite Munich and Geneva as examples.

As a passenger/visitor, you get off a plane, get through the security and baggage reclaim and head to the rail platform either outside the terminal, or in the case of Geneva, take an escalator down to the platforms underneath the terminal itself. Heathrow, Stanstead and Gatwick are all similar, so why not Edinburgh? In fact why not Glasgow as well instead of having to negotiate motorway traffic?
It is $#@!in bonkers and typical of the mentality of this shambles of a country.
Because that railway wouldn't have taken you to Gogarburn and Edinburgh Park, which, for me, is the real reason the airport tram line exists. Incredibly, they actually built a tram system which takes longer to get to the city centre than the bus.
 

Kenny

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Yeah but by 2011/12 the City/Trams were in obvious trouble,a pragmatic gov should've stepped in and sorted it out instead of playing politics...
I'll give you that, but it would've been hell of a risky and open to all sorts of accusations - central govt fiddling in council affairs, SNP trying to pull rank over Lab Council ...
 

The__Proclaimer

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May be wrong Proccie from what i think you're saying, it would be better to ditch the buses altogether and replace all routes with trams?

Apologies if not.
Na not at all, I honestly think the bus service is superb. The current tram set up is so half arsed it's almost pointless tho. We need to do it throughout the city, for sheer numbers of passengers and also the accessibility side. There's only a finite number of vehicles you can have on the road at once without gridlock. I doubt the population of Edinburgh in the 2075 could sustain only buses and a princes st - gyle tram line.
 

hibadelic

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I've been travelling a bit lately and have seen and sometimes used tram systems around various places. These are extensive and highly effective from what I have seen. It does make you wonder about the shambles in Edinburgh. Had these city's networks been at a similar cost by mile they would have need need budgets measured in the broons of millions which I cant believe is the case. Why can the city of the Scottish enlightenment not run a pish up in a brewery?
Having seen the same across the world, this was always my argument when the tram was originally being built. I'm still baffled as to how it's been fecked up so badly.
 

stairways_second_coming

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Tram is magic for going to the airport most of the journey isn't on the road network so no traffic. I took one to the airport on the day of the royal Highland show while the roads were in complete gridlock we just sailed in without delay

Doesn't justify the price but they are always heaving
 

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Anyone know what was supposed to happen 1,694 days ago?

With regards to the Scottish Government stepping in earlier I think there may have been legal implications. I reckon they had to be invited to help. If the SNP led government had been called in earlier I doubt we'd have a tram, or half a tram at all.

The David Begg/Labour vanity project had to be at the point of no return before the assholes at the council would hand it over. As it was did the SG not almost blackmail the council into handing it over by threatening to withhold further funding after the council ran out of money?

Personally I think they should extend the current tr to the original terminus. Maybe the Scottish Government could use the money they're saving on the transport budget by bringing the Forth Replacement Crossing in under budget.

Anyway it was 1,694 days ago the first trams were supposed to be running up and down Leith Walk.
 

egb_hibs

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Because that railway wouldn't have taken you to Gogarburn and Edinburgh Park, which, for me, is the real reason the airport tram line exists. Incredibly, they actually built a tram system which takes longer to get to the city centre than the bus.
The original route joined the scottish government office at victoria quay and the airport. Some cynics would have it that it was designed to help the former with travel expenses.

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Having seen the same across the world, this was always my argument when the tram was originally being built. I'm still baffled as to how it's been fecked up so badly.
lets face it, scottish local government is filled with people unqualified to do anything but rock back and forward and shout the word 'diversity' like a tourettes sufferer. results are predictable.

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Tram is magic for going to the airport most of the journey isn't on the road network so no traffic.
its quite an achievement to be on average slower than the buses in spite of this.
 

Jack

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The original route joined the scottish government office at victoria quay and the airport. Some cynics would have it that it was designed to help the former with travel expenses.

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lets face it, scottish local government is filled with people unqualified to do anything but rock back and forward and shout the word 'diversity' like a tourettes sufferer. results are predictable.

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its quite an achievement to be on average slower than the buses in spite of this.
That is cynical.

I thought the bus timetable had been changed to make it slower than the tram but having just looked it up the airport bus is around 5 minutes quicker.

The 35 on the other hand is 5 weeks slower getting into town ;-)
 

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EDIT: I don't think the council should justify spending anymore money on the trams anywhere. Edinburgh has a fantastic bus service even more so if you consider the amount of buses that already service the length of Leith walk - if that's where the next proposal was to be.
This is an excellent point, Edinburgh has a great bus service, more limited stop buses (maybe paint them green) is a a more cost effective solution.
 

1875

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Spot on totally bonkers. After the game against the Arabs I was on the first flight next day heading to the Netherlands for Groningen's Europa Cup match that day. Many on here have done that particular journey. What a fuckin delight to to arrive at Schippol, walk to the escalators down to the platforms and within 10 minutes on a train speeding the two hour journey to Tractorland.

It has always puzzled me that folk throughout Scotland who wish to use Edinburgh or Glasgow Airports cannae get a train to them.

BIG G
I agree and given the 50 years or so the Liebour Party had in charge you would have thought one of them smart enough to come up with that idea instead of funding illegal wars and supporting Trident instead.
 
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