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Leith Walk tram line extension blocked by the SNP

GORDONSMITH7

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hope even your no' trying tae blame the SNP for this one G. EU directive that a government of any persuasion wid be legally bound tae conform tae
The SNP govern to a large extent Scotland and now have more powers to do so. I support anything they do that benefits workers and their families T and will be the first to say so. I did when Blair was in power in the UK, however as a Labour Party member never held back and would never do so opposing vigorously anything which was not.

Do you really think that the Abellio the international arm of the Dutch national rail operator Nederlandse Spoorwegen, were not amazed that the Scottish government did not choose to delay the recent tendering process for Scotrail, which the RMT asked be put back until after the full extent of the powers contained in the Scotland Bill were finalised. That was a lack of political will in my opinion. Here ye go amigos 10 year contract to a Dutch State owned rail operator. Others have more noose and determination.Nederlandse Spoorwegen, which I travelled on extensively last week, holds the concessions for main lines until at least 2025 and I expect that will be extended despite any EU directive. Where there's a will there's a way as they say.

As to CalMac, the SNP could have more fully explored the Teckal Exemption, which the Dutch and other Governments have used, which allows publicly run companies to operate services without the need for a tendering process. I have never once heard the SNP speaking out loudly saying that our public services should remain public.I've heard bloody rhetoric and seen the opposite in action in the here and now. I don't think that they believe it or perhaps havenae the balls to say so. Hiding behind EU regulations, or 'we have to make cuts because it's Westminster's fault' may sit nae bother with Nats but it disnae with me. Even the cuts/job losses which the Community charge freeze has undoubtedly contributed to in my opinion does not exempt Labour and Nat cooncillors in the Coalition in Edinburgh getting off their erses and to campaign against the Scottish Government strategy. I guess it's easier to blame than do something about it.

It goes without saying that most Nats will have read the much heralded ' Scotland's Future - The Scottish Government' which is the SNP's White Paper on Independence two years ago this month. I did and it was apparent to me that that they have zero commitment to bringing Scotland's rail network into public ownership getting instead some woeful baloney, and I've looked it up to remind myself, after Independence they will look at, quote “the best ownership model for rail and track for the benefit of the people of Scotland.” Well if I were a Nat activist or Corbyn for that matter, I would be asking if they will publicly match Labours commitment to do so.

SNP members of which there are a huge number more than this time last year should be reminded that the SNP have the same position as the Tories on regulation of buses. This is already devolved so nae excuses. Just a recap. The rank and file delegates, ordinary SNP members voted at their 2007 Conference to re-regulate the Scottish bus network. Another progressive move I supported. Alas and to the astonishment of many activists it did not get a peep in the SNP manifesto. The same year Stagecoach co-owner businessman, philanthropist and fucking homophobe Brian Souter donated £500,000 at the SNP's pre-election conference in Glasgow.

That's just the way it is.

BIG G
 

southfieldhibby

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The SNP govern to a large extent Scotland and now have more powers to do so. I support anything they do that benefits workers and their families T and will be the first to say so. I did when Blair was in power in the UK, however as a Labour Party member never held back and would never do so opposing vigorously anything which was not.

Do you really think that the Abellio the international arm of the Dutch national rail operator Nederlandse Spoorwegen, were not amazed that the Scottish government did not choose to delay the recent tendering process for Scotrail, which the RMT asked be put back until after the full extent of the powers contained in the Scotland Bill were finalised. That was a lack of political will in my opinion. Here ye go amigos 10 year contract to a Dutch State owned rail operator. Others have more noose and determination.Nederlandse Spoorwegen, which I travelled on extensively last week, holds the concessions for main lines until at least 2025 and I expect that will be extended despite any EU directive. Where there's a will there's a way as they say.

As to CalMac, the SNP could have more fully explored the Teckal Exemption, which the Dutch and other Governments have used, which allows publicly run companies to operate services without the need for a tendering process. I have never once heard the SNP speaking out loudly saying that our public services should remain public.I've heard bloody rhetoric and seen the opposite in action in the here and now. I don't think that they believe it or perhaps havenae the balls to say so. Hiding behind EU regulations, or 'we have to make cuts because it's Westminster's fault' may sit nae bother with Nats but it disnae with me. Even the cuts/job losses which the Community charge freeze has undoubtedly contributed to in my opinion does not exempt Labour and Nat cooncillors in the Coalition in Edinburgh getting off their erses and to campaign against the Scottish Government strategy. I guess it's easier to blame than do something about it.

It goes without saying that most Nats will have read the much heralded ' Scotland's Future - The Scottish Government' which is the SNP's White Paper on Independence two years ago this month. I did and it was apparent to me that that they have zero commitment to bringing Scotland's rail network into public ownership getting instead some woeful baloney, and I've looked it up to remind myself, after Independence they will look at, quote “the best ownership model for rail and track for the benefit of the people of Scotland.” Well if I were a Nat activist or Corbyn for that matter, I would be asking if they will publicly match Labours commitment to do so.

SNP members of which there are a huge number more than this time last year should be reminded that the SNP have the same position as the Tories on regulation of buses. This is already devolved so nae excuses. Just a recap. The rank and file delegates, ordinary SNP members voted at their 2007 Conference to re-regulate the Scottish bus network. Another progressive move I supported. Alas and to the astonishment of many activists it did not get a peep in the SNP manifesto. The same year Stagecoach co-owner businessman, philanthropist and fucking homophobe Brian Souter donated £500,000 at the SNP's pre-election conference in Glasgow.

That's just the way it is.

BIG G
Some interesting points made there Gordon, have never heard of Teckal so will go and have a gander.

Agree re: Souter, what a **** of a man.
 

paigntonhibby

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The SNP govern to a large extent Scotland and now have more powers to do so. I support anything they do that benefits workers and their families T and will be the first to say so. I did when Blair was in power in the UK, however as a Labour Party member never held back and would never do so opposing vigorously anything which was not.

Do you really think that the Abellio the international arm of the Dutch national rail operator Nederlandse Spoorwegen, were not amazed that the Scottish government did not choose to delay the recent tendering process for Scotrail, which the RMT asked be put back until after the full extent of the powers contained in the Scotland Bill were finalised. That was a lack of political will in my opinion. Here ye go amigos 10 year contract to a Dutch State owned rail operator. Others have more noose and determination.Nederlandse Spoorwegen, which I travelled on extensively last week, holds the concessions for main lines until at least 2025 and I expect that will be extended despite any EU directive. Where there's a will there's a way as they say.

As to CalMac, the SNP could have more fully explored the Teckal Exemption, which the Dutch and other Governments have used, which allows publicly run companies to operate services without the need for a tendering process. I have never once heard the SNP speaking out loudly saying that our public services should remain public.I've heard bloody rhetoric and seen the opposite in action in the here and now. I don't think that they believe it or perhaps havenae the balls to say so. Hiding behind EU regulations, or 'we have to make cuts because it's Westminster's fault' may sit nae bother with Nats but it disnae with me. Even the cuts/job losses which the Community charge freeze has undoubtedly contributed to in my opinion does not exempt Labour and Nat cooncillors in the Coalition in Edinburgh getting off their erses and to campaign against the Scottish Government strategy. I guess it's easier to blame than do something about it.

It goes without saying that most Nats will have read the much heralded ' Scotland's Future - The Scottish Government' which is the SNP's White Paper on Independence two years ago this month. I did and it was apparent to me that that they have zero commitment to bringing Scotland's rail network into public ownership getting instead some woeful baloney, and I've looked it up to remind myself, after Independence they will look at, quote “the best ownership model for rail and track for the benefit of the people of Scotland.” Well if I were a Nat activist or Corbyn for that matter, I would be asking if they will publicly match Labours commitment to do so.

SNP members of which there are a huge number more than this time last year should be reminded that the SNP have the same position as the Tories on regulation of buses. This is already devolved so nae excuses. Just a recap. The rank and file delegates, ordinary SNP members voted at their 2007 Conference to re-regulate the Scottish bus network. Another progressive move I supported. Alas and to the astonishment of many activists it did not get a peep in the SNP manifesto. The same year Stagecoach co-owner businessman, philanthropist and fucking homophobe Brian Souter donated £500,000 at the SNP's pre-election conference in Glasgow.

That's just the way it is.

BIG G
cannae argue aboot souter G, but having said that ,unfortunately all parties have rich arseholes supporting them wi' far too much influence. The fact o' the matter is G that Corbyn is an electoral nonentity in Scotland because he's nae chance o' getting voted in doon here, far too left wing for the shires, and the government that Engerland wants,Scotland gets. there's only one way tae change that, ye ken it makes sense
 

The__Proclaimer

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Know a few folk have quoted me re: schools sorry for ignoring but in hindsight shouldn't have used the death of an Edinburgh girl on an Edinburgh football teams forum to make a point when there's a good chance someone reading might know the family or have kids at the school.

Live Forever Keane x
 

Sunshine on Leith

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http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/leith-walk-tram-line-extension-blocked-by-the-snp-1-3943716

I'll leave it to the Nats on here to support this move. Perhaps they can explain why Nat Councillors in the so called 'coalition' on the Cooncil voted for compulsory redundancies (2000 people). The Scottish Government Community Charge freeze will cost the Cooncil £140,000,000. Utterly bizarre policy up there with the Scottish Governments nutty proposal for me to pay less for my flight to Tenerife.

BIG G
As potentially one of the 2000 i was unaware that this decision had been voted through as i attended a Unison rally outside the Chambers only last Thursday to protest against compulsory redundancies? What i do know though that as it was "Nat Councillors" that voted to keep oor jobs in-house and opposed the City Of Edinburgh high management to 'sell us off' to the private sector, this was only last month and not for the first time, they also done the same around two years ago.
 

emerald green

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Know a few folk have quoted me re: schools sorry for ignoring but in hindsight shouldn't have used the death of an Edinburgh girl on an Edinburgh football teams forum to make a point when there's a good chance someone reading might know the family or have kids at the school.

Live Forever Keane x
Was about to get all hot and bothered re your posts (but for a change I read right doon the thread).

Well done for posting this T_P :thumbgrin

have some rep :thumbgrin
 

GORDONSMITH7

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As potentially one of the 2000 i was unaware that this decision had been voted through as i attended a Unison rally outside the Chambers only last Thursday to protest against compulsory redundancies? What i do know though that as it was "Nat Councillors" that voted to keep oor jobs in-house and opposed the City Of Edinburgh high management to 'sell us off' to the private sector, this was only last month and not for the first time, they also done the same around two years ago.
The full Council will vote on this issue shortly. It was a member of the Finance and Resources Committee who told me that he/she was the only person on it to argue against Compulsory redundancy. Others both Labour and SNP did not and does not bode well. Hopefully the demo and threat of industrial action has concentrated some minds. It's false to imply that it was Nat Councillors that exclusively voted not to privatise Facility Management last month or other services two years ago G. As the Scotsman reported at the time......''

''PLANS to outsource services supplied by Edinburgh City Council’s maintenance, catering and porter staff to save tens of millions of pounds were abandoned yesterday after SNP and Labour councillors put aside party differences to vote them down.

The two parties, along with Green Party councillors, supported an amendment to abandon the transfer of integrated facilities management services to a private firm.''


What I do now is that the same Council has been starved of £190,000,000 since the introduction of the Council Tax freeze. As Unison correctly points out....''The Scottish Government claims that the council tax freeze is “vital lifeline to hard pressed Scots”. This is not the case. The freeze disproportionally benefits the wealthy; while charges are being increased and services cut''

BIG G
.
 

Kenny

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Council tax is not fit for purpose. SNP manifesto said it wouldn't be raised.

So you're demanding they break a manifesto promise and potentially heap more woe on those in the queue at the food bank. ..


This would be Dugdales line at every FMQS forever.

Ideally a new form of local income tax should be brought in
 

Smurf

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Federal UK? FUK? No chance.IMO.
I think federalism is the only way the UK can survive. Scottish Politics whatever it's configuration in terms of the governing party at Westminster and Holyrood is now always going to be about grievance. Unless either Labour or the Tories wake up to this reality and the subsequent growth in Independence appeal then independence really is inevitable.

- - - Updated - - -

Council tax is not fit for purpose. SNP manifesto said it wouldn't be raised.

So you're demanding they break a manifesto promise and potentially heap more woe on those in the queue at the food bank. ..


This would be Dugdales line at every FMQS forever.

Ideally a new form of local income tax should be brought in
Eh? FFS they said they'd scrap the Council Tax and felt more than comfortable breaking that election pledge and promise.

No?

- - - Updated - - -

Finally! You're on board! Can I count on you to doorstep with me during the next referendum?


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Not quite mate!
 

hibadelic

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I've no idea whether it's a good or bad decision to delay extending the trams. It's clear to me that the first part of the project from the Airport to the town is really just there to go from the airport to offices at Edinburgh Park and Gogarburn.

That said, a line from Newhaven to town would serve real people and seems not that expensive at the price quoted.

Big G previously denounced the trams as a vanity project (and I now think he may have had a point) so it's interesting to see him upset that the SNP have blocked further development for now. :detective:
 

StevieC

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The SNP were against the trams at the outset. The over-budget fiasco has left the council with a budget shortfall for the next 30 years as they try to pay off the loan, and interest, needed to finish the job. A shortfall that has resulted in the need to shed 2,000 council jobs.

Quite how the SNP can be brought into question for refusing to put itself into even more debt to finish a Labour fiasco that it has inherited is quite mystifying.
 

GORDONSMITH7

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I've no idea whether it's a good or bad decision to delay extending the trams. It's clear to me that the first part of the project from the Airport to the town is really just there to go from the airport to offices at Edinburgh Park and Gogarburn.

That said, a line from Newhaven to town would serve real people and seems not that expensive at the price quoted.

Big G previously denounced the trams as a vanity project (and I now think he may have had a point) so it's interesting to see him upset that the SNP have blocked further development for now. :detective:
I still think that it was a vanity project and you are spot on about real people should be the main benefactors of what was originally proposed. From start to finish the tram project was a shambles as we all know and at double the original cost, not value for money.......however, however years of disruption in Leith Walk endured by the plebs in the North of the City, small businesses that were hammered to allow ancient services to be moved should not be forgotten and shrugged off as ' oh well they fucked up and that's life.

The utility works have been paid for, the trams are bought and I agree with MSP Malcolm Chisholm when he says “Completion of the tram line to Leith and Newhaven should be a priority for investment by national government and the council should be looking to see if there are other sources of funding too.” He added: “The council does have massive financial difficulties at the moment and it’s not for me to say what decisions it should make immediately. But in the longer term, it is financially necessary and will happen. That’s the only way to increase the customer base.”

If the figures are to believed at £144m, with real checks and balances to ensure on time and cost delivery, that figure is a tenth of the final cost of the main project. The Scottish government should help fund this.

What pisses me off about the Nat councillors is that whilst saying that “The business case just has not been made, and we should forget the extension.” they know as well as I do that the business plan points out that much of the infrastructure for the extension is already in place including many plots of land acquired by the council, however just as importantly if the project is postponed indefinitely is that its legal powers to acquire land between Granton and Newhaven will expire next May.

It also gives me no pleasure that the Labour group will bottle it if the Nats oppose, in the interests of the Capital Coalition unity. Deary me.

It can be argued that losers in all this are all of us, however in the here in now, a cursory look at the original proposals, the winners are Tourists, folk travelling to the centre of Edinburgh, West Siders who work or live in areas surrounding Gogarburn,The Gyle, Edinburgh Park, Bankhead, Saughton, Murrayfield and Haymarket. Loosers folk who had there business badly effected and punters in Leith Walk and surrounding areas, those who work or live in areas surrounding Picardy Place,McDonald Road, Balfour Street, Foot of the Walk, Bernard Street, Port o Leith, Ocean Terminal, Newhaven and Lower Granton,(all proposed stops). If this does not go ahead the further extension to Granton, Saltire Square, Caroline Park, West Pilton, Crewe Toll. Telford Road, Craigpark can kiss its ass goodbye.

BIG G

- - - Updated - - -

The SNP were against the trams at the outset. The over-budget fiasco has left the council with a budget shortfall for the next 30 years as they try to pay off the loan, and interest, needed to finish the job. A shortfall that has resulted in the need to shed 2,000 council jobs.

Quite how the SNP can be brought into question for refusing to put itself into even more debt to finish a Labour fiasco that it has inherited is quite mystifying.
Hold on are you seriously telling me that these proposed job losses could not have been avoided if the Edinburgh Council had been allowed to collect the missing £190,000,000 which Council Tax freezing has resulted in. A populist action with grave consequences for Councils, without trams, throughout Scotland and will be looked back on as an utter folly in future.

BIG G
 

1875

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Our schools are so decrepit they are literally killing our children but it's much easier to blame the English than make unpopular decisions.
I carry out regular surveys of Scotland's schools, they are not decrepit.
 

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Why is all the talk about trams going down A, sorry THE very best serviced bus route down Leith? The 22 is about every 3 mins by the amount I see.
The first tram line to be axed was IMO the most important one.. Centre of town past the main unis, and onto the main hospital.
The south side of the city is alarmingly left to rot, service wise, all routes in and out, gilmerton rd, Dalkeith rd are ridiculously busy with all east and Midlothian traffic jamming in
Not a cycle track to speak of.. Whereas the leith/newhaven area is very well serviced for buses and off road cycle tracks everywhere...
Clearly the royal infirmary along with the new sick kids, is of more need to the general public and add in the Universities then to me more important than to help developers sell houses down Leith way....
The wrong line got cancelled first IMO it was all about tourists and developers, not where it was most needed.
 

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Some interesting points made there Gordon, have never heard of Teckal so will go and have a gander.

Agree re: Souter, what a **** of a man.
Have a wee look at who else was bidding on the Scotrail franchise M, worth a gander.
 

PILTONSTANY

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Why is all the talk about trams going down A, sorry THE very best serviced bus route down Leith? The 22 is about every 3 mins by the amount I see.
The first tram line to be axed was IMO the most important one.. Centre of town past the main unis, and onto the main hospital.
The south side of the city is alarmingly left to rot, service wise, all routes in and out, gilmerton rd, Dalkeith rd are ridiculously busy with all east and Midlothian traffic jamming in
Not a cycle track to speak of.. Whereas the leith/newhaven area is very well serviced for buses and off road cycle tracks everywhere...
Clearly the royal infirmary along with the new sick kids, is of more need to the general public and add in the Universities then to me more important than to help developers sell houses down Leith way....
The wrong line got cancelled first IMO it was all about tourists and developers, not where it was most needed.
I'd cancel the Granton-Roseburn loop and run Newhaven-Infirmary instead :thumbgrin
 

Hattie

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I'd cancel the Granton-Roseburn loop and run Newhaven-Infirmary instead :thumbgrin
I do think the Infirmary with the new sick kids right beside it is the most needed place for general public, read OAPs and families with kids, in the times of stress etc
 

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Tram from infirmary to western general makes the most sense
 

PILTONSTANY

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Tram from infirmary to western general makes the most sense
It does but there's no chance it's going through Stockbridge or up Orchard Brae,the Roseburn path takes you near the back entrance but there's no danger you'd consider using it to get to the Hospital.
 

Dub

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It does but there's no chance it's going through Stockbridge or up Orchard Brae,the Roseburn path takes you near the back entrance but there's no danger you'd consider using it to get to the Hospital.
Not In My Back Yard :giggle:
 

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