Just Back.. and we were just not good enough

[whiskas]

I agree with much of that other than I thought Boyle coming on and going 4-4-2 gave us a lot more attacking intent. Unfortunately nothing came of it. We’re too predictable and one-dimensional and it’s no coincidence that we created chances when we broke away from the tedious play round the back, the work it down the channels to Cadden to swing in and actually took a man on.
McGrath and Chaiwa had a couple of moments of magic between them that on another day may have came off.
One thing I did notice is our back 3 are all very spaced out when we have the ball. This expands the pitch and gives more passing options but it also meant that if a centre back was striding forward (usually Rocky) he could only go so far and would then have to stop and play a simple sideways pass as there’s no one slotting in to cover the space.
Also a lack of communication, exemplified by Barlasser receiving the ball from the goalie, tons of space and rather than turn, look up and play it forward he hit a fist-time sideways pass to a defender. I’m not actually blaming Barlasser here- the goalie should be telling him he has no-one in him and to pivot and move forward.

 

[numptyploom]

I agree with much of that other than I thought Boyle coming on and going 4-4-2 gave us a lot more attacking intent. Unfortunately nothing came of it. We’re too predictable and one-dimensional and it’s no coincidence that we created chances when we broke away from the tedious play round the back, the work it down the channels to Cadden to swing in and actually took a man on.
McGrath and Chaiwa had a couple of moments of magic between them that on another day may have came off.
One thing I did notice is our back 3 are all very spaced out when we have the ball. This expands the pitch and gives more passing options but it also meant that if a centre back was striding forward (usually Rocky) he could only go so far and would then have to stop and play a simple sideways pass as there’s no one slotting in to cover the space.
Also a lack of communication, exemplified by Barlasser receiving the ball from the goalie, tons of space and rather than turn, look up and play it forward he hit a fist-time sideways pass to a defender. I’m not actually blaming Barlasser here- the goalie should be telling him he has no-one in him and to pivot and move forward.

You’ve just noticed that about our back three?

 

[whiskas]

You’ve just noticed that about our back three?

It certainly stood out today- one of the main benefits of playing 3 at the back is to give licence to push forward with the ball and have another defender drop behind and cover. It ended up with Barlasser or Chaiwa doing this.

 

[numptyploom]

It certainly stood out today- one of the main benefits of playing 3 at the back is to give licence to push forward with the ball and have another defender drop behind and cover. It ended up with Barlasser or Chaiwa doing this.

It did stand out today as you say.For some reason it was more frustrating and infuriating to watch.Rocky acting as a conduit for every move was farcical.

 

[jock3]

Just watched highlights, can only think Campbell hit the ball so hard given where the keeper wis?

 

[Keepitgreen]

Cracking effort.



This bit though, if we had done all those things.
It still would've been the minimum.
That's what should have happened against them, they were well worthy of a 4 or 5 nil humping.
We just couldn't give it to them. If we were still playing now, I bet everything I have that Rocky and O'Hora would play 5 of the next 8 passes.

Can't really argue with that Hammi. We absolutely should've handed them their arses today.

 

[Keepitgreen]

In all respect not good enough is being generous. We were absolutely shite.
David Grays tactics are utterly honking. We’re a shadow of the team we witnessed in the second half of last season and quite frankly boring and robotic.

Fans thinking about season tickets for next season will not be spending money if that’s the product that’s on show. It was back to the Calderwood / Fenlon days. Some fans might not even bother going back this season.

The substitutions actually made us worse which is baffling and a change of shape resulted in another change of shape not long after because Gray had made an arse of the first reshuffle.

His times up now. 3 centredefenders and a sitting midfielder which results in Drawing with the bottom of the league side at home is not on. The happy clappers will defend him but he needs to go at the end of the season.

I can understand why folk are frustrated with SDG, especially after a result like that at home. But some can feel the frustration and still remain positive or pragmatic where it's applicable; that's not happy clapping imo. (Can you tell, I mean me)

 

[Keepitgreen]

I was on the Hibs website earlier in the week . OOoo I can get a cheapo auld basturts S/T for next season . Then I noticed you have to be 65 on the 1st of August then I though , behave yourself its still no worth it . I just couldn't sit in the colder months freezing and bored watching that I'm afraid . I kinda fear I've had my last trip to ER

Don't give in to fear Forza, that doesn't sound like you

 

[Keepitgreen]

Good account of today. Saw the team sheet and thought YES 2 or 3 nil to the hibees. Alas it was a boring and frustrating game and at the end although pissed off was relieved we came away with a point. It was one of those games where we dominated possession but you were half expecting them to score a late goal.
Big Marv set them up to defend in their own half and that was basically all there was to it.
We couldn't break them down but they didn't press us so really there was no need for us to pass back and side to side, you could see they weren't going to venture forward and leave gaps for us to exploit I guess that was the plan but Livi weren't playing ball.
I thought Chaiwa again played well but he seemed to play deeper which didn't suit us hence there seemed to be little going through midfield instead everything was down the wing. The crosses in from Beardy were pretty ineffective not bad crosses but between their goalie and the two man mountains they had playing for them they came to nothing.
Thought Andrews and Scarlet were pretty awful.
Gained a point on Well but should have been 3, another missed chance.

Great points made GJ, reading this and other responses I think I might've done more in describing the Livi setup and how, like you say, it was set out very obviously to frustrate us. Commonly I measure other teams' performance mainly on how they did in an attacking sense, need to sharpen that up.

 

[Keepitgreen]

Good effort KiG. One thing I took from the game is Suto might no be as good a starter than we thought.
.

Cheers Bill, and aye I was thinking throughout about the clamour we'd had to see Ante starting. Really wanted him to grab it. I think Boyle might get the nod vs Motherwell - heard on sportscene just now he's 1 appearance away from 400 for the Hibs.

 

[Keepitgreen]

I thought Suto and Erling had really good movement but mostly the service was shite.
McGrath was very very good and deserved better. Scarlett looked brutal as did Andrews.

Agree on all that KH. The running by our strikers has been pretty good in the main; we've really been doing them dirty with our style of play for ages now.

 

[Keepitgreen]

Definitely had theirs up too.
I don't like that it's not a full up and down list now. Split 6 and 5. It's weird and makes the screens look small.

Agreed, thought it looked shite and not sure why they'd change it?

 

[Keepitgreen]

Very good Just Back, shame aboot the result! I wisnae there and haven't watched the highlights yet but can't disagree with anything in the report. The Elding plays like a wee laddie made me laugh! We don't have an Alan Hansen in the team but can't one of the defenders take a chance and bring the ball over the half way line?

Cheers Jock, appreciate that!

And aye it seemed like the defenders got permission to do that early in the second half, and when they did, the Livi lads were a bit surprised by it. We got them pushed right further back.

 

[Keepitgreen]

Against an absolutely shite bottom of the league Livi, we should have started Youan, Erling and Suto. That front 3 would have given them all kinds of problems with the way they can all play. All can drop deep, drift out wide and play through the middle.

Agree, I think it's a completely valid criticism to say that we should've started with a far more offensive lineup, formation and tactics against the leagues bottom side.

 

[Keepitgreen]

Decent opinionated post spoiled by the .net “happy clappers” jibe.
Dinnae insult other Hibs fans on the Bounce with that pish please.

Bedwetter I take personally.

I’ve not given up totally on Sir David, and if I wet the bed it’s not his fault.

Are you posting from Prague just now Doc or did I get that wrong?! Lovely beers eh

 

[Keepitgreen]

Unlucky not to score when we hit the bar and post, but Josh Campbell should have scored.
Livi got everyone behind the ball for the duration of the game and nullified our threat completely.
Hibs quickly ran out of ideas, because we depend so much on the wing-backs getting forward and providing good crosses into the box.
When that gets stopped, we just haven't got the contingency of pace or creativity to compensate.
A poor game, and a draw the right result.

Was definitely a poor game GM, but on balance of good chances created and overall domination I'm not sure a draw was that right a result.. i.e. if we'd put away just a single chance I don't think anyone would say we hadn't deserved the win?

 

[Keepitgreen]

I agree with much of that other than I thought Boyle coming on and going 4-4-2 gave us a lot more attacking intent. Unfortunately nothing came of it. We’re too predictable and one-dimensional and it’s no coincidence that we created chances when we broke away from the tedious play round the back, the work it down the channels to Cadden to swing in and actually took a man on.
McGrath and Chaiwa had a couple of moments of magic between them that on another day may have came off.
One thing I did notice is our back 3 are all very spaced out when we have the ball. This expands the pitch and gives more passing options but it also meant that if a centre back was striding forward (usually Rocky) he could only go so far and would then have to stop and play a simple sideways pass as there’s no one slotting in to cover the space.
Also a lack of communication, exemplified by Barlasser receiving the ball from the goalie, tons of space and rather than turn, look up and play it forward he hit a fist-time sideways pass to a defender. I’m not actually blaming Barlasser here- the goalie should be telling him he has no-one in him and to pivot and move forward.

Cheers Whiskas, and totally agree on the best chances coming when we attempted something different. McGrath the main man for doing that, thought Elding had a few bashes too. Passlack perhaps another, he likes a one-two and a cut inside that creates spaces.

 

[Keepitgreen]

Just watched highlights, can only think Campbell hit the ball so hard given where the keeper wis?

I just watched them as well, aye you might be right but it's shite execution no matter what he was trying wasn't it? He'll no want to watch that back.

 

[Green juventine]

Great points made GJ, reading this and other responses I think I might've done more in describing the Livi setup and how, like you say, it was set out very obviously to frustrate us. Commonly I measure other teams' performance mainly on how they did in an attacking sense, need to sharpen that up.

You did a good JB. I take my hat off to you and the guys that keep it going . I don't know how the late 1875 remembered such detail and still enjoy the games. I have trouble even remembering the goalscorers in fact I've already forgotten who was on the score sheet yesterday.

 

[Forzahibs]

Don't give in to fear Forza, that doesn't sound like you

At 65 you qualify for cheaper tickets but you must be 65 before August the 1st (I'm the 19th) so i have to be 66 if you get my drift . A cheaper ticket , free bus from here makes it a fairly cheap day compared to what most people pay but you'd still have to want to go . When i stopped attending i though i'd last a few games , ive not missed it so far

 

[Smurf]

Excellent JB - thank you.

We are an entirely predictable football team in how we play. Side to side then side to side some more. Get the ball wide then whip it in.... ad nauseam. Keep doing it and eventually and hopefully.... Problem is if a team sits back that we can't counter then the eventually and hopefully becomes much more difficult.

Yesterday we needed something different to make something happen. A Youan type. That he wasn't thrown on kind of tells you something of the mindset of our management.

A huge call but I think this summer the club needs to appoint a new manager/head coach that'll take our style of play in a different direction. Overall SDG has been OK. But with our squad we need more than OK. SDG can leave with his stock in good shape and get another job and critics will say Hibs were harsh. A huge gamble for our board most certainly.

 

[Archie]

Thanks for the JB. I would say that Iredale and Cadden did have some good interplay, but once Iredale went off Cadden was too deep and so we saw less of him in an attacking sense. Suto worked hard, but I didn't see him imposing himself. Maybe still settling in?

On the subs and change of formation, it seemed like the right idea, but it didn't work.

I for one hope SDG is there next season. I see more positives than negatives and think he is learning all the time.

 

[Smurf]

Thanks for the JB. I would say that Iredale and Cadden did have some good interplay, but once Iredale went off Cadden was too deep and so we saw less of him in an attacking sense. Suto worked hard, but I didn't see him imposing himself. Maybe still settling in?

On the subs and change of formation, it seemed like the right idea, but it didn't work.

I for one hope SDG is there next season. I see more positives than negatives and think he is learning all the time.

Can you please give examples of the "....learning all the time"?

 

[Purple & Green]

I believe Gray has a worse record than Jack Ross.

Averaging 1.5 points a game over two seasons seems a pretty incredible standard given what’s gone before

Jack Ross hasn’t managed to stick in the industry since he was removed from Hibs?

 

[Hammi]

Averaging 1.5 points a game over two seasons seems a pretty incredible standard given what’s gone before

Jack Ross hasn’t managed to stick in the industry since he was removed from Hibs?

Since whatever happened at Dundee united.
That was a shit show, players wanted nothing to do with him I think?

 

[Doc Shrink]

Are you posting from Prague just now Doc or did I get that wrong?! Lovely beers eh

I am indeed, and the beers are splendid. As are the margaritas in the Sky Bar
Sounds like a good game to miss, but cheers for the report.

 

[hibbybilly]

Thanks for the JB. I would say that Iredale and Cadden did have some good interplay, but once Iredale went off Cadden was too deep and so we saw less of him in an attacking sense

Said that yesterday, Caddens game is crosses intae the box, once McGrath went oot there, as you say, seen mostly nowt from him.

 

[Hammi]

Said that yesterday, Caddens game is crosses intae the box, once McGrath went oot there, as you say, seen mostly nowt from him.

I still think that can work.
Would involve the centre mids staying deep, but Cadden forward and McGrath would like given McGrath room to move and give Cadden options on crossing from deep or going on the overlap.

But if we've never worked on it, then it's a bit redundant as they're figuring it out as they go.

 

[hibbybilly]

I still think that can work.
Would involve the centre mids staying deep, but Cadden forward and McGrath would like given McGrath room to move and give Cadden options on crossing from deep or going on the overlap.

But if we've never worked on it, then it's a bit redundant as they're figuring it out as they go.

It didnae work yesterday.

 

[cleanyman]

Apologies for the pish I was posting last night. Pissed off after the game and went and got steaming.

It was a boring watch. Probably the most disappointing performance of the season. We were passing the ball back 30 yards to the keeper.

The team is boring and the fans were sleeping. It was a tough watch. We desperately need a change of style.

 

[ManchesterGreen]

Apologies for the pish I was posting last night. Pissed off after the game and went and got steaming.

It was a boring watch. Probably the most disappointing performance of the season. We were passing the ball back 30 yards to the keeper.

The team is boring and the fans were sleeping. It was a tough watch. We desperately need a change of style.

Don’t need to apologise for anything CM.

 

[Bofahibee]

My thoughts after the game was that we’re going to wear out that attacking area of the pitch on the left by the West Stand - so much of our play happens there. It’s predictable.

One of the best periods for me was when Barlaser decided to play through the middle.

It occurred to me that we very rarely have anyone at the back of the D - maybe it was just my coach but he drummed that into us.

 

[McCulto]

My biggest gripe is Livi were shite, didn't press, didn't play a particularly effective block and yet we had very little to offer.

 

[Archie]

Can you please give examples of the "....learning all the time"?

I think he's a better coach than when he started. Last year's run didn't come out of nowhere.

 

[Davy]

I remember just after the break the screens said Livingston X1..but that was inlymonce I saw their rmteam sheet. Fortunately the Internet signal seems to have improves.

Was totally bored watching the ball being passed from one side to the other mostly via Rocky. Livingstone just had all their players in their half and we didn't know what to do.

Credit to Bartley for sorting them out though. They should not get crushed by anyone now

 

[Davy]

My biggest gripe is Livi were shite, didn't press, didn't play a particularly effective block and yet we had very little to offer.

I thought they did exactly what they were told to. Sit behind the ball and frustrated us and hit in the break. They done that pretty well and it is why we are all so frustrated

 

[Bangkokhibby]

I think he's a better coach than when he started. Last year's run didn't come out of nowhere.

Please explain how the run did effectively come out of nowhere. Why are people ignoring what was rumoured at the time. A behind closed doors, team only pep talk/bollocking from the club captain Newell and a rumoured increase in win bonuses.
We were mince before that then not so mince for a while. Was that down to Gray? Did he all of a sudden become good? Or was it a total mindset/attitude change from the squad?
Then we had the European campaign. Fantastic for the players. What an opportunity for them. Played their hearts out in the main until we had group stages snatched away by a crazy substitution with seven minutes left to play.
Since then things have regressed. We're not shite, far from it. It's a decent looking squad and every week the team sheet looks good enough to give anyone a scare. Top six assured and for many that seems to be enough. @Hammi has it spot on. Nothing being learned.

 

[Archie]

Please explain how the run did effectively come out of nowhere. Why are people ignoring what was rumoured at the time. A behind closed doors, team only pep talk/bollocking from the club captain Newell and a rumoured increase in win bonuses.
We were mince before that then not so mince for a while. Was that down to Gray? Did he all of a sudden become good? Or was it a total mindset/attitude change from the squad?
Then we had the European campaign. Fantastic for the players. What an opportunity for them. Played their hearts out in the main until we had group stages snatched away by a crazy substitution with seven minutes left to play.
Since then things have regressed. We're not shite, far from it. It's a decent looking squad and every week the team sheet looks good enough to give anyone a scare. Top six assured and for many that seems to be enough. @Hammi has it spot on. Nothing being learned.

I think Gray had a big part to play in the turnaround. And top six assured hasn't always been a given.

 

[Smurf]

I think he's a better coach than when he started. Last year's run didn't come out of nowhere.

But that was last year with arguably a weaker squad.

 

[Hammi]

I think Gray had a big part to play in the turnaround. And top six assured hasn't always been a given.

He did, he had to have, it doesn't all click together on its own.
But that squad was screaming to play 3412. That was the perfect system for them.

This squad has been screaming to break free from it since October.
The formation and tactics behind it have held us back.
The substitutions and game management have held us back.

We started the season with a squad good enough to do things, they proved it night after night and showed everyone what this club could be.
But we forced Bowie to play as a target man. Rocky is the only player that can regularly score with his head, so we cross relentlessly.

We've no even had a bad season, not really. But knowing that there's so much more to get from those same players is the real frustration. That squads as good as Hearts. It just doesn't believe it.
That comes from Sir Dave unfortunately.