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HSL

beefy

Easy Now Radge
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Paid in from the start simply because I wanted Hibs to have more money to compete.

Now we have a millionaire taking over from another millionaire got me thinking...WTF am I doing?

Why should I not stop my DDs? I recognised under STF that I needed to help Hibs more cos he simply wouldn't. Now Ron has put dosh in why should I continue? This ain't a dig at STF by the way and I think you ken that?

Why should I continue to give Hibs an extra 20 blabs a month when Ronnie boy is minted to funk?

Just asking? But seriously need an answer to my satisfaction before I stop this revenue pronto.

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I think that question is particularly pertinent now that it's apparently been confirmed at tonight's Q&A that there are no more shares available for HSL to buy unless a new issue is approved. Think it'll be important for some clarity to emerge from HSL / Ron asap.
 
If it turns into a straight player recruitment fund (Wages,Fees or whatever) then i’d probably donate,only a matter of time until the £1.4m a year the fans of Matalan FC raise starts going on players and we want to compete with that.
 
Is he better off than STF?

I'll probably continue - at least until HSL let us know what's happening.
 
I stick in my donation simply to help fund better players. I couldn't give much of a one about fan ownership.
Makes no difference to me at all - if I can put in a wee bit extra then I will.

All the pish about HSL money going into STF/Petrie's pockets was made up pish, but sadly it was repeated enough that too many believed it.

I'm with Beefy - paid up to help Hibs.

I'll carry on meantime, and I hope more guys and gals do too - if they can spare a few quid a month.
 
If there’s no shares then I think a look at the articles of association is needed - they might have no purpose anymore.
 
See what comes out of the HSL update this week and as talks progress - I’ll continue with my DD.

Collectively (individuals and HSL) we’re at 33% - that’s a comfort and protection.

Supporter participation is very good and the intent is great. Ron did say he was open to talks on this down the line - a supporter owned club or a club that has supporter ownership but has a majority shareholder. Big challenges (financial liability and decision-making) to being a supporter owned club.
 
I’m not going to cancel, but a quick look at the a of a suggests hsl cant gather funds and not use them, and must use them to buy shares (we know there’s none) or securities in the club. I don’t think securities are likely to be forthcoming. I think this is worthy of further discussion on the private forum.
 
FWIW im suspecting a premium members scheme pitched at £50-£100 per annum in hsls place. No ownership of club just benefits.

I might pay that but it leaves the hslstrip idea up in the air perhaps.

I’d also pay for a safe standing seat to be installed.
 
I'll continue paying into HSL as I know the money will be going to the managers transfer fund. We need all available revenue sources we can get if we are to compete with Aberdeen for players...and we must do that.

Never quite got my head around the whole end game scenario with HSL with regard to fan ownership or whatever. Apparently they have around 20% of the club with individual shareholders having around another 12%. If so that would be enough to prevent any possible shenanigans in the future, not that I think there will be any. . What I do know is that the manager needs the money to put the best team on the park that he can. That's good enough for me.
 
I'd like to have seen HSL reach the 25% shareholding which I believe would allow them a significant say such as to prevent asset-stripping in the future (Ronnie seems a good guy but who knows what the future holds?) It would also help keep any future owners 'honest'. Disappointed if we can't even achieve this. Will see what HSL come out with.
 
I'll continue paying into HSL as I know the money will be going to the managers transfer fund. We need all available revenue sources we can get if we are to compete with Aberdeen for players...and we must do that.

Never quite got my head around the whole end game scenario with HSL with regard to fan ownership or whatever. Apparently they have around 20% of the club with individual shareholders having around another 12%. If so that would be enough to prevent any possible shenanigans in the future, not that I think there will be any. . What I do know is that the manager needs the money to put the best team on the park that he can. That's good enough for me.
As I understand it HSL has the sole purpose of buying shares in the club. It's in its constitution or whatever, it's not allowed to do anything else. With no shares to buy it's not allowed to hand over the money collected.

I'm sure this could be easily changed but it would need the agreement of its members.

It was by agreement with the former owner that the money went directly to the managers fund. A new agreement would need to be reached with the new owner/club - assuming the HSL members went for this following the change of constitution.

Ron apparently said last night he'd be looking to build a £3/4m indoor facility at EM. Previously this was £1m.

He also suggested he'd be looking for fans to "pony up" whatever that means in its detail.

If it were to include for example HSL contributing to the indoor facility would that be OK for the majority of members?

HSL has a lot of thinking to do!
 
Collectively (individuals and HSL) we’re at 33% - that’s a comfort and protection.

Is it, though K? My understanding is that HSL have 18% and that there are quite a few nominee holdings, unclear whether they're died in the wool fans or not - happy if someone knows different.
I was desperate for HSL to get to 25%, that's what I've been paying in for. Really unhappy HSL have been sold out. I worry also about who comes after Ron.
 
As I understand it HSL has the sole purpose of buying shares in the club. It's in its constitution or whatever, it's not allowed to do anything else. With no shares to buy it's not allowed to hand over the money collected.

I'm sure this could be easily changed but it would need the agreement of its members.

It was by agreement with the former owner that the money went directly to the managers fund. A new agreement would need to be reached with the new owner/club - assuming the HSL members went for this following the change of constitution.

Ron apparently said last night he'd be looking to build a £3/4m indoor facility at EM. Previously this was £1m.

He also suggested he'd be looking for fans to "pony up" whatever that means in its detail.

If it were to include for example HSL contributing to the indoor facility would that be OK for the majority of members?

HSL has a lot of thinking to do!
The “Pony up” was said in relation to fans owning 49% of the club,ie if we wanted new players then the 49% would have to pay if the majority owner didn’t want to.
If was part of the discussion on HSL and fan ownership....
 
This was put up over the road yesterday so yesterday means today!

OfficialHSL;5839131 said:
As you know I was not at the meeting this evening and I am wondering if you perhaps misheard Ron, as this is not correct.

I understand that following last weeks announcement Ron and his family enjoyed the rest of the week in London following a very busy few weeks leading up to the announcement and that is why we were unable to meet until this week.

We will be writing to our Members tomorrow with a very positive update.

In the meantime could I echo Ron's comments and just ask for a little patience and please allow us just a little time to continue our discussions.


Jim Adie

Let's see what happens. I agree with @Purple & Green a private discussion might be best.
 
Do any of our contributors from the USA know of any examples in the States where owners look to the fan base to invest in any way, other than match tickets?
 
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See what comes out of the HSL update this week and as talks progress - I’ll continue with my DD.

Collectively (individuals and HSL) we’re at 33% - that’s a comfort and protection.

Supporter participation is very good and the intent is great. Ron did say he was open to talks on this down the line - a supporter owned club or a club that has supporter ownership but has a majority shareholder. Big challenges (financial liability and decision-making) to being a supporter owned club.
KP Did you get the sense that he intends to put money into the club on an ongoing basis?

I think an ideal scenario would be if new shares got approved for issue at the AGM each year and were available for purchase to all shareholders. Suppose £1.5m worth of shares got issued every year, that would mean that if Ron wanted to maintain his two thirds holding he'd need to buy £1m of them, and if HSL wanted to maintain their 18% (I think that's what it's at at the moment?) they'd need to buy £270,000.

However, if HSL could raise more than £270,000 every year then it would lead to an increase in their (our) percentage holding plus money going into the budget to put a better team on the park. I think that would act as a double incentive for people to contribute, as it's more money for the team and also helps to build towards a meaningful share.

I think a setup like this could work really well as it would allow ownership percentages to flex depending on how much financial support each group / individual puts in the pot. Some years Ron may not want to put anything in, in which case HSL holding builds, other years he might want to chuck £10m(!!) in in which case he dramatically increases his percentage holding.

By the way, I've no interest in becoming majority fan owned, I think it would be a recipe for disaster. However if a setup like this was structured so that over time (eg the next 10 years) that HSL could get up to over 25% then I think that would be an ideal balance where the majority shareholder would retain a majority, but the collective fans group would have a meaningful influence.
 
KP Did you get the sense that he intends to put money into the club on an ongoing basis?

I think an ideal scenario would be if new shares got approved for issue at the AGM each year and were available for purchase to all shareholders. Suppose £1.5m worth of shares got issued every year, that would mean that if Ron wanted to maintain his two thirds holding he'd need to buy £1m of them, and if HSL wanted to maintain their 18% (I think that's what it's at at the moment?) they'd need to buy £270,000.

However, if HSL could raise more than £270,000 every year then it would lead to an increase in their (our) percentage holding plus money going into the budget to put a better team on the park. I think that would act as a double incentive for people to contribute, as it's more money for the team and also helps to build towards a meaningful share.

I think a setup like this could work really well as it would allow ownership percentages to flex depending on how much financial support each group / individual puts in the pot. Some years Ron may not want to put anything in, in which case HSL holding builds, other years he might want to chuck £10m(!!) in in which case he dramatically increases his percentage holding.

By the way, I've no interest in becoming majority fan owned, I think it would be a recipe for disaster. However if a setup like this was structured so that over time (eg the next 10 years) that HSL could get up to over 25% then I think that would be an ideal balance where the majority shareholder would retain a majority, but the collective fans group would have a meaningful influence.

He’s open to conversation which is a good thing.

There was sound rationale given that shares were being bought at a low price, diluting shares and not putting in much capital.

HSL and club update will give us an insight into what direction of travel we’re taking and move from there.
 
This is from the HSL website. Dunno when it was last updated but it's been there for a while, so hoping with the name on shirt scheme, that more people have joined then surely they must be near the first objective at least [emoji848]

Our Goal

We now own 18.81% of the Club. Our goal is to achieve at least 25.1% ownership.

● 20% stake – we can elect a Board member to Hibernian Football Club
● 25.1% stake – we have a meaningful vote on all major Club issues


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According to the website there is only 2,409 members. We have donated £770,000 so far.

I'm shocked that membership is so low. I really didn't think it was that bad.

Seems like Hibs fans really do not like or want anything to do it [emoji848]

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According to the website there is only 2,409 members. We have donated £770,000 so far.

I'm shocked that membership is so low. I really didn't think it was that bad.

Seems like Hibs fans really do not like or want anything to do it [emoji848]

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That is poor, I agree. Those spreading the Ponzi myth did their fellow fans a lot of damage.
 
There was a lot of shit spoken about HSL, but I think the bigger barrier was a lot of people not having concerns about the ownership of the club, and feeling like they already paid in enough with their ST.
 
There was a lot of shit spoken about HSL, but I think the bigger barrier was a lot of people not having concerns about the ownership of the club, and feeling like they already paid in enough with their ST.
Yep. We had debate on here where folk said they "paid enough" and were looking for the owner to pay more. There were even folk who don't go to games saying they'd not be going until the owners coughed up or bailed out. The Ponzi stuff definitely didn't help them but the HSL for loyalty points thing ultimately did for them. It was that single incident more than any other contributing factor that turned off fans who actually do pay lots toward the club week in, week out.

I benefited from it because I had already joined HSL and had been to every game home and away. It put me in a position where nobody could trump my access to tickets. I was not happy with that, however. It wasn't fair and it wasn't what either loyalty points or HSL contributions were set up for. It was the beginning of the end for loyalty points and a massive own goal for HSL/Hibs.
 
Yep. We had debate on here where folk said they "paid enough" and were looking for the owner to pay more. There were even folk who don't go to games saying they'd not be going until the owners coughed up or bailed out. The Ponzi stuff definitely didn't help them but the HSL for loyalty points thing ultimately did for them. It was that single incident more than any other contributing factor that turned off fans who actually do pay lots toward the club week in, week out.

I benefited from it because I had already joined HSL and had been to every game home and away. It put me in a position where nobody could trump my access to tickets. I was not happy with that, however. It wasn't fair and it wasn't what either loyalty points or HSL contributions were set up for. It was the beginning of the end for loyalty points and a massive own goal for HSL/Hibs.

Totally agree. I doubt HSL will continue much longer, and will be replaced by a membership scheme (hopefully) along the lines of AberDNA. This should open the door for a return of some sort of loyalty point system, which is badly needed with our ever growing season ticket numbers.
 
Still no word from HSL? The status should be straightforward and this is beginning to feel a bit ominous. I think this highlights the mistake of aligning hsl too closely to the club and the people wearing two hats.
 
I have contributed for a couple of years now, only thought of was improving the club.
No interest in fan ownership tbh, no idea what that would mean in practical terms anyway.
I will continue paying.
 
EMAIL:


As promised, I am writing today to provide an update following the recent acquisition of the majority shareholding in our Club by Bydand Sports LLC (Mr Ron Gordon).

Following on from our earlier note, Members of the Hibernian Supporters Board met Mr Gordon on Monday, which was our earliest opportunity to meet, to welcome his investment in the Club and to hear his plans for the future development of Hibernian. This meeting was very cordial and helpful to both Hibernian Supporters and the new principal shareholder and enabled both parties to understand the history of Hibernian Supporters Ltd, its aims and intentions. Mr Gordon was very positive about the contribution that we have made since our inception and saw that as the single biggest minority shareholding in the Club, we have a role going forward. He reiterated his intention to work positively with fellow shareholders and stakeholders.

Members, and continuing contributors to Hibernian Supporters, will be comforted to know that it purchased shares that were available to buy immediately prior to the transaction between H F C Holdings and Mr Gordon as per our subscription agreement, however, that following the transaction no more shares are available to purchase directly from the Club. Money that has been collected since this time is held within our bank account and has not been transferred to the Club.

The full Board of Hibernian Supporters will meet on Monday, 15th July 2019 to discuss the way ahead and we have agreed to continue our dialogue with Ron and the Club and we anticipate meeting again next week.

Hibernian Supporters has made an important contribution to Hibernian over the last 4 years and can continue to do so to ensure the Club continues its progress and competes at the highest level in football. It has endured negativity, however, it has been clear in its intent to support the Club despite this, and will intend to do so moving forward.

The Club has a new owner who has passion, ambition and a vision for Hibernian’s development in the future. He met with members of Hibernian Supporters Association on Wednesday evening and he talked about his 90 day and 6-month plans that are being developed currently.

Whilst the Board of Hibernian Supporters understand that supporters want clarity instantly, it is important that we carefully consider what we have been told in our meetings with the new owner, take account of what all our members views are and develop our plans properly. The first steps in this process have happened and will continue with our Board meeting on Monday and with the continued discussions with Ron.

It is understandable that change brings with it uncertainty but we should not allow rumour and speculation to fill the temporary void created. One of the things we believe as your Directors we have enjoyed over the past few years is your trust. We have worked hard to earn this and we will continue to progress in accordance with our objectives and our Articles. Can I please once again ask for your patience.

Can I leave you with some simple facts which we believe is positive news for Hibernian Supporters.

Since the announcement last week Hibernian Supporters have increased our Membership, increased our shareholding in the Club as a result of share donations and indeed only today received further pledges of over 250,000 shares in the Club from private shareholders. Can we also help some of our fellow Members and supporters who have been forensically examining shareholdings by confirming that we have received a number of share donations over the years and this will help to explain the very minor discrepancies in calculations that are drawn only from public information.


James Adie
Chairman
 
Hibernian Supporters?
 
Hibernian Supporters?
Name change was some time ago? Think it was on the email last week, the one they sent when Ron was announced.
 
Here is the news. There is no news.
 
Name change was some time ago? Think it was on the email last week, the one they sent when Ron was announced.

Bit presumptious for 2000 fans, but then their comms have been shite from early days, when I made comments previously, they had Jackie McNamara call me out on here, never seen hims since. Then there was that Non Hibby SNP MSP who seems to have vanished.

I go home and away, I throw money at Hibs weekly and back them almost unconditionally, but the comms, the admin then the ultimate faux pas, the loyalty points ,ensured they would get nowt from me, seems I represent a majority given we have 12000 season ticket holders and only 2000 ahem, Hibernian Supporters.

Ron and his people have probably seen it for what it is.
 
Here is the news. There is no news.

There is a bit of work to be done before they can offer useful info. It seems that the transfer of shares from STF and Rodders was completed pretty much on the QT and Jim Adie and co. will have their work cut out to adapt. The HS(L) can no longer purchase shares so they need new articles, and basically a new (and acceptable) raison d'être.
In the meantime we can all indulge in the usual speculation as to whether it's a Fonzi Scheme a Ponzi Scheme or a Ronzi Scheme.
 
There is a bit of work to be done before they can offer useful info. It seems that the transfer of shares from STF and Rodders was completed pretty much on the QT and Jim Adie and co. will have their work cut out to adapt. The HS(L) can no longer purchase shares so they need new articles, and basically a new (and acceptable) raison d'être.
In the meantime we can all indulge in the usual speculation as to whether it's a Fonzi Scheme a Ponzi Scheme or a Ronzi Scheme.

Or a very poorly administered failed opportunity?
 
What I’ve taken from this is some Hibs fans loved providing extra funds to the Club irregardless, some were energised to get over 25% of club shares in one voice - a population were keen for a higher percentage. A fair number were enthusiastic to provide more funds direct to the manager and others content that the club would do as it sees fit with it.

A wide range of opinions but engaged nonetheless. It is what it is now and it’s about making the right decisions here on in. Patience will give us more opportunities on how to progress.

I’m keeping a tab on things and here throughout.
 
What I’ve taken from this is some Hibs fans loved providing extra funds to the Club irregardless, some were energised to get over 25% of club shares in one voice - a population were keen for a higher percentage. A fair number were enthusiastic to provide more funds direct to the manager and others content that the club would do as it sees fit with it.

A wide range of opinions but engaged nonetheless. It is what it is now and it’s about making the right decisions here on in. Patience will give us more opportunities on how to progress.

I’m keeping a tab on things and here throughout.

The bit you missed KP is the fact the vast majority didnae buy in, in any shape or form?
 
Not even sure if im donating or not. I cancelled at one point but emailed them to restart payments but dunno if they did. Does seem strange TF kinda going back on an agreement..maybe he didn't have time to wait until HSL made the 25%, or maybe Ron doesn't want them to reach that figure and TF felt it was best deal on table. Going forward that lot along the road will continue to put money in, in the hope they can buy their way t being a big team again. We do need to watch we don't lose ground. Even a millionaire cant always be expected to put only his own money in. That said, sell out crowds would help immensly
 
The bit you missed KP is the fact the vast majority didnae buy in, in any shape or form?

True - more referencing the ones that are buying in and their intentions.
 
Just relaunch the thing and market it as purely a revenue raiser for the managers budget.
 
Do any of our contributors from the USA know of any examples in the States where owners look to the fan base to invest in any way, other than match tickets?

I haven't heard of any in my life here so I did a quick search and found this on Wikipedia:


So yes, they do exist but they're not professional teams in the so called major sporting leagues here.
 
Just relaunch the thing and market it as purely a revenue raiser for the managers budget.
Is that not the owners job
 

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