Hibs v Aberdeen v Gunts Turnover

[Purple & Green]

Interesting chat on fitsodjers Facebook group - but here's what the accounts breakdown as:

Hibs figures are notional - we only know the top line figure is 9.6M - the hearts and Aberdeen figures are from their accounts.

Please feel free to add any input

 

[Purple & Green]

These figures as @SlovSam will probably point out are from 2018. I'll add 2019s when I see them.

 

[Purple & Green]

My first suspicion, before checking is that HSL money, or Hearts case FOH money isn't treated as turnover?

 

[tricky]

Why are broadcasting rights for the sheep so high?

 

[Purple & Green]

Why are broadcasting rights for the sheep so high?

I think it might be - in part - how they account but the numbers seem so distant between them and hearts that I can't be sure.

 

[Jack]

Why are broadcasting rights for the sheep so high?

Europe?

 

[Purple & Green]

Assuming that the the gate receipts are all roughly similar around £5M:

£5M over 20 games with say 15,000 attending works out at £16.67 a head - that's probably worth of some investigation a thought being that maybe disproportionate concession tickets?

Heres a bit from the spfl page earlier this year:

SPFL PRIZE POT REACHES £25M
PRIZE MONEY OF £25 MILLION WILL BE PAID TO CLUBS FOR SEASON 2018/19...
The SPFL has announced that £25 million in league prize money will be paid to its 42 member clubs this season.
League prize money is paid in addition to parachute payments, UEFA solidarity, Betfred Cup prize and TV money, IRN-BRU Cup prize and travel money, and clubs' match accounts from cup games at neutral venues. Season 2018/19 will see record amounts of Betfred Cup prize and TV money (£2,110,000), IRN-BRU Cup prize money (£428,990) and parachute payments paid to clubs.
Neil Doncaster, SPFL chief executive, said: “This season’s fee payments demonstrate the continued growth of the game in Scotland and reflect the huge strides that have been made by the SPFL and its member clubs alike.
“The SPFL remains committed to growing our game in the financial interests of all 42 member clubs. Our recently announced long-term broadcast contracts with Sky Sports, Premier Sports, BBC Scotland and MG ALBA from 2020 put the SPFL in a strong and confident position for the future.”
The £25 million league prize money is distributed according to the percentages set out below and is based on overall league standing at the end of the season.
Ladbrokes Premiership
1st - 13.40% - £3,350,000
2nd - 9.60% - £2,400,000
3rd - 8.25% - £2,062,500
4th - 7.25% - £1,812,500
5th - 6.75% - £1,687,500
6th - 6.25% - £1,562,500
7th - 5.75% - £1,437,500
8th - 5.50% - £1,375,000
9th - 5.25% - £1,312,500
10th -5.00% - £1,250,000
11th - 4.75% - £1,187,500
12th - 4.50% - £1,125,000

 

[SlovSam]

It might be that Aberdeen show their TV money from league placing as "Broadcasting Rights" whereas Hibs and Gunts show as "Prize money".

Hibs accounts actually just lump everything together so its hard to distinguish what is what except for the "fck all" we get from that garbage community thing spun as a "great deal".

I thought I saw Hearts Turnover as a high as £15m recently (2019) due to their Scottish Cup run last season and "Commercial income" from Aberdeen of £4.8m is huge so maybe that's where they put their fan/trust money.

I think you are right that Hearts show their FoF money somewhere else plus their mysterious donor money of £2m+ which was in an entirely seperate line called "Donations" in the 2019 accounts

Overall their is quite a gap between Hibs at the obvious bottom compared to the other clubs with relatively the same size of fan base which is another reason why I have never bought into this Dempster "the Messiah" nonsense.

 

[Doc Shrink]

Both the Gunts and the Sheepies have ‘benefactors’ that we lack.

 

[Purple & Green]

As you said, Hearts is up over £15M

It might be that Aberdeen show their TV money from league placing as "Broadcasting Rights" whereas Hibs and Gunts show as "Prize money".

Hibs accounts actually just lump everything together so its hard to distinguish what is what except for the "fck all" we get from that garbage community thing spun as a "great deal".

I thought I saw Gunts Turnover as a high as £15m recently (2019) due to their Scottish Cup run last season and "Commercial income" from Aberdeen of £4.8m is huge so maybe that's where they put their fan/trust money.

I think you are right that Gunts show their FoF money somewhere else plus their mysterious donor money of £2m+ which was in an entirely seperate line called "Donations" in the 2019 accounts

Overall their is quite a gap between clubs with relatively the same size of fan base which is another reason why I have never bought into this Dempster "the Messiah" nonsense.

 

[Purple & Green]

Both the Gunts and the Sheepies have ‘benefactors’ that we lack.

I don't think the benefactors are covered in Turnover though?

 

[Purple & Green]

I’m not sure why donations are hitting the profit and loss, perhaps some clever person can explain that to me. It screams tax dodge to me

 

[tayside hibee]

Forgetting for a minute these figures against clubs roughly around our club size, ( which I only get the rough grasp on), it would be be more an eye opener !looking at clubs who have regularly out performed us over the last 10 years.
How st J and Hamilton have survived is admirable, and the rest to be fair.
It's shameful how our club has been run , there is no denying.

 

[Jack]

I’m not sure why donations are hitting the profit and loss, perhaps some clever person can explain that to me. It screams tax dodge to me

I can't explain, but ...

Tax dodge doesn't seem right to me.

If anyone is dodging taxes they're hardly going to be noticeable in publicly available accounts! And Accountants signing off accounts these days need to be a pure as the driven snow or they're jailed!

The money being paid into clubs will be legit. Tax efficient more like.

 

[Bofahibee]

I’m amazed that the Sheeps’ TV money is so much higher than ours. Their US deal is interesting although it seems they are going to be the junior partner in the arrangement. I always thought it was a shame that Boston called their MLS team something shite (not literally) instead of Boston Hibernians as a few of my Bostonian chums had suggested. I think there’s an obvious tie up there though. I wonder if that sort of arrangement is on DaDooRonRon’s radar?

I’m also curious about what commercial income the Gunts have that we don’t. I assume this is merchandise and hire of facilities for functions but the marked difference seems odd especially as their shirts look like bowel cancer.

I wonder if K Power can illuminate us?





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[greencol]

The sponsorship and commercial money at Aberdeen will probably be more than the others because of the oil industry.
If you check their sponsors a large number are probably oil and gas support firms.
Peterhead FC benefits greatly from many oil and gas support companies, too.

 

[westsidehibs]

There shouldn't be as much as a gap regarding commercial money Dempster and co should be doing better.

 

[Doc Shrink]

There shouldn't be as much as a gap regarding commercial money Dempster and co should be doing better.

Agreed.

I still find it incredibly strange that our head of sponsorship is the manager of the team that beat the Hibs Ladies in the Cup Final the other week.
But as it never gets mentioned anywhere, it must just be me that finds it weird.

 

[Purple & Green]

So on reflection, the gunts are turning over £15M and on top of that taking £3M in donations. Previous year was £12M and £2M (2018) We're turning over £9M (2018) - wow that is quite a gap.

Gate receipts and prize money/television money assuming are fairly similar £5M & £2M - say both are £7M means that the gunts have other turnover of £7M and we have other turnover of £2M.

I think there's more to this than meets the eye - but I've no idea why the gaps are so huge.

 

[Hibee Kev]

So on reflection, the gunts are turning over £15M and on top of that taking £3M in donations. Previous year was £12M and £2M (2018) We're turning over £9M (2018) - wow that is quite a gap.

Gate receipts and prize money/television money assuming are fairly similar £5M & £2M - say both are £7M means that the gunts have other turnover of £7M and we have other turnover of £2M.

I think there's more to this than meets the eye - but I've no idea why the gaps are so huge.

Gunts have retail and catering done in-house whereas we outsource? I've read elsewhere and even on JKB that, if you take their anonymous donations out of the equation, they're running at an overall operating loss. Not sure on what the sheep's situation is.

 

[madhibee]

Gunts have retail and catering done in-house whereas we outsource? I've read elsewhere and even on JKB that, if you take their anonymous donations out of the equation, they're running at an overall operating loss. Not sure on what the sheep's situation is.

RE the outsource element it's something that comes up every year when we compare turnover. What I don't think ever happens (or potentially is able to happen) is a comparison of what profit margins the different approaches mean. Clearly, taking on staff and having them on payroll, all the H&S elements, HR etc etc can become a significant liability - however when two of our closest rivals are undertaking it in this way I feel more scrutiny regarding the approach is required.

As has been mentioned the way Hibs lump everything in makes it difficult to breakdown, but I would suggest that a shareholder request to see the evidence may be interesting - perhaps a HSL request due to their shareholding size.

Considering we're still flogging hospitality for this weekend I'd suggest, as others have, that our commercial operations are now hitting the mark that they should.

 

[1875]

Agreed.

I still find it incredibly strange that our head of sponsorship is the manager of the team that beat the Hibs Ladies in the Cup Final the other week.
But as it never gets mentioned anywhere, it must just be me that finds it weird.

Worse, she was on the pitch celebrating.

 

[Purple & Green]

Worse, she was on the pitch celebrating.

Could you see a male head of sales and sponsorship getting away with that?

 

[emerald green]

Gunts have retail and catering done in-house whereas we outsource? I've read elsewhere and even on JKB that, if you take their anonymous donations out of the equation, they're running at an overall operating loss. Not sure on what the sheep's situation is.

your right kev... the gunt has catering inhouse, turnover is higher but its bottom line that matters. Don't be fooled about their massaged figures, they're still a basket case and are relying on donations. That won't last. The Gunts have also seen some £6m being paid to the budge family for their ridiculously expensive short sighted new stand.
They also fuck their sisters.

 

[Doc Shrink]

Could you see a male head of sales and sponsorship getting away with that?

I don't see why a female should be in this dual role either.

 

[southfieldhibby]

Agreed.

I still find it incredibly strange that our head of sponsorship is the manager of the team that beat the Hibs Ladies in the Cup Final the other week.
But as it never gets mentioned anywhere, it must just be me that finds it weird.

Scott Booth is their manager I thought? Laura obviously found herself in a odd predicament given her split loyalties. Wee bit of leeway allowed I think given the year she's had I think. A solution needs to be found to avoid it happening again though.

 

[Doc Shrink]

Scott Booth is their manager I thought? Laura obviously found herself in a odd predicament given her split loyalties. Wee bit of leeway allowed I think given the year she's had I think. A solution needs to be found to avoid it happening again though.

Laura is the manager, founder, and ex-player there.


Scott Booth is coach.

 

[Power]

I’m amazed that the Sheeps’ TV money is so much higher than ours. Their US deal is interesting although it seems they are going to be the junior partner in the arrangement. I always thought it was a shame that Boston called their MLS team something shite (not literally) instead of Boston Hibernians as a few of my Bostonian chums had suggested. I think there’s an obvious tie up there though. I wonder if that sort of arrangement is on DaDooRonRon’s radar?

I’m also curious about what commercial income the Gunts have that we don’t. I assume this is merchandise and hire of facilities for functions but the marked difference seems odd especially as their shirts look like bowel cancer.

I wonder if K Power can illuminate us?





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Canny speculate on wooden dollars elsewhere against ours - I’ll leave that to the experts.
No secret that Hibs are wanting to perform stronger off the pitch - will no doubt be expanded on in AGM (January likely) and in more formal communication from Ron/club’s senior management (last update 7th Nov). New recruits - advertised September - to bolster the backroom team incoming December (? communication on its way ?).

Any feedback (other than perform stronger on the top line please!) then happy to pass on of course

 

[Boo]

Worse, she was on the pitch celebrating.

What is her name ?

 

[Doc Shrink]

What is her name ?

Laura Montgomery

 

[1875steve]

Agreed.

I still find it incredibly strange that our head of sponsorship is the manager of the team that beat the Hibs Ladies in the Cup Final the other week.
But as it never gets mentioned anywhere, it must just be me that finds it weird.

Yeah she's "club manager", she played for them and, i think, was involved in their formation

I said it at the time, she was on the pitch celebrating our ladies team getting beat in a cup final. It didn't sit right with me, i found it very strange.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

Interesting thread on Aberdeen here...

Thread by @SwissRamble: "Aberdeen’s 2018/19 financial results covered a season that “ended with the disappointment” of a 4th place finish in the SPFL Premiership, wh […]"

Thread by @SwissRamble: "Aberdeen’s 2018/19 financial results covered a season that “ended with the disappointment” of a 4th place finish in rship, while they reached the League Cup final & Scottish Cup semi-final, losing to Celtic on both occasi […]"

threadreaderapp.com

 

[Purple & Green]

I think that might mean I can update the hearts and Aberdeen ones, just waiting on the Hibs ones.

 

[Purple & Green]

Aberdeen have an exceptional item of £4M for Pittodrie impairment. I'd be interested to know what that is exactly.

 

[Doc Shrink]

Aberdeen have an exceptional item of £4M for Pittodrie impairment. I'd be interested to know what that is exactly.

Decrease in site valuation?
I'm not sure if the stadium was valued as 'a stadium' or as a potential site for redevelopment.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

Aberdeen have an exceptional item of £4M for Pittodrie impairment. I'd be interested to know what that is exactly.

 

[Smurf]

Considering we're still flogging hospitality for this weekend I'd suggest, as others have, that our commercial operations are now hitting the mark that they should.

I have been on about this for months. Our Commercial department were desperately trying to secure match day sponsorship for the Celtc fixture a week or so before it a few months back. No shirt sponsor (OK we decided not to have one...) and inventory unsold all over the ground.

Maybe I am just bitter... But I am Murphy's.

 

[Smurf]

Could you see a male head of sales and sponsorship getting away with that?

Personally I have been intrigued with the CV's of certain folk landing certain roles within the club....

 

[hibbybilly]

Noticed one of the booths at the away end was occupied on Saturday. Cannae mind them being occupied before, I take it they are hospitality?

 

[1875]

Noticed one of the booths at the away end was occupied on Saturday. Cannae mind them being occupied before, I take it they are hospitality?

Or Bizzies.