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Hibs v Aberdeen v Gunts Turnover

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Radge McRadge
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Interesting chat on fitsodjers Facebook group - but here's what the accounts breakdown as:

Hibs figures are notional - we only know the top line figure is 9.6M - the Gunts and Aberdeen figures are from their accounts.

Please feel free to add any input

Screenshot 2019-11-28 at 20.17.55.png
 

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These figures as @SlovSam will probably point out are from 2018. I'll add 2019s when I see them.
 

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My first suspicion, before checking is that HSL money, or Gunts case FOH money isn't treated as turnover?
 

tricky

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Why are broadcasting rights for the sheep so high?
 

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Why are broadcasting rights for the sheep so high?
I think it might be - in part - how they account but the numbers seem so distant between them and Gunts that I can't be sure.
 

Jack

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Assuming that the the gate receipts are all roughly similar around £5M:

£5M over 20 games with say 15,000 attending works out at £16.67 a head - that's probably worth of some investigation a thought being that maybe disproportionate concession tickets?

Heres a bit from the spfl page earlier this year:

SPFL PRIZE POT REACHES £25M
PRIZE MONEY OF £25 MILLION WILL BE PAID TO CLUBS FOR SEASON 2018/19...
The SPFL has announced that £25 million in league prize money will be paid to its 42 member clubs this season.
League prize money is paid in addition to parachute payments, UEFA solidarity, Betfred Cup prize and TV money, IRN-BRU Cup prize and travel money, and clubs' match accounts from cup games at neutral venues. Season 2018/19 will see record amounts of Betfred Cup prize and TV money (£2,110,000), IRN-BRU Cup prize money (£428,990) and parachute payments paid to clubs.
Neil Doncaster, SPFL chief executive, said: “This season’s fee payments demonstrate the continued growth of the game in Scotland and reflect the huge strides that have been made by the SPFL and its member clubs alike.
“The SPFL remains committed to growing our game in the financial interests of all 42 member clubs. Our recently announced long-term broadcast contracts with Sky Sports, Premier Sports, BBC Scotland and MG ALBA from 2020 put the SPFL in a strong and confident position for the future.”
The £25 million league prize money is distributed according to the percentages set out below and is based on overall league standing at the end of the season.
Ladbrokes Premiership
1st - 13.40% - £3,350,000
2nd - 9.60% - £2,400,000
3rd - 8.25% - £2,062,500
4th - 7.25% - £1,812,500
5th - 6.75% - £1,687,500
6th - 6.25% - £1,562,500
7th - 5.75% - £1,437,500
8th - 5.50% - £1,375,000
9th - 5.25% - £1,312,500
10th -5.00% - £1,250,000
11th - 4.75% - £1,187,500
12th - 4.50% - £1,125,000
 

SlovSam

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It might be that Aberdeen show their TV money from league placing as "Broadcasting Rights" whereas Hibs and Gunts show as "Prize money".

Hibs accounts actually just lump everything together so its hard to distinguish what is what except for the "fck all" we get from that garbage community thing spun as a "great deal".

I thought I saw Gunts Turnover as a high as £15m recently (2019) due to their Scottish Cup run last season and "Commercial income" from Aberdeen of £4.8m is huge so maybe that's where they put their fan/trust money.

I think you are right that Gunts show their FoF money somewhere else plus their mysterious donor money of £2m+ which was in an entirely seperate line called "Donations" in the 2019 accounts

Overall their is quite a gap between Hibs at the obvious bottom compared to the other clubs with relatively the same size of fan base which is another reason why I have never bought into this Dempster "the Messiah" nonsense.
 
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Sir Shrink

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Both the Gunts and the Sheepies have ‘benefactors’ that we lack.
 

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As you said, Gunts is up over £15M


Screenshot 2019-11-28 at 22.42.12.png

It might be that Aberdeen show their TV money from league placing as "Broadcasting Rights" whereas Hibs and Gunts show as "Prize money".

Hibs accounts actually just lump everything together so its hard to distinguish what is what except for the "fck all" we get from that garbage community thing spun as a "great deal".

I thought I saw Gunts Turnover as a high as £15m recently (2019) due to their Scottish Cup run last season and "Commercial income" from Aberdeen of £4.8m is huge so maybe that's where they put their fan/trust money.

I think you are right that Gunts show their FoF money somewhere else plus their mysterious donor money of £2m+ which was in an entirely seperate line called "Donations" in the 2019 accounts

Overall their is quite a gap between clubs with relatively the same size of fan base which is another reason why I have never bought into this Dempster "the Messiah" nonsense.
 

tayside hibee

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Forgetting for a minute these figures against clubs roughly around our club size, ( which I only get the rough grasp on), it would be be more an eye opener !looking at clubs who have regularly out performed us over the last 10 years.
How st J and Hamilton have survived is admirable, and the rest to be fair.
It's shameful how our club has been run , there is no denying.
 

Jack

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I’m not sure why donations are hitting the profit and loss, perhaps some clever person can explain that to me. It screams tax dodge to me
I can't explain, but ...

Tax dodge doesn't seem right to me.

If anyone is dodging taxes they're hardly going to be noticeable in publicly available accounts! And Accountants signing off accounts these days need to be a pure as the driven snow or they're jailed!

The money being paid into clubs will be legit. Tax efficient more like.
 

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I’m amazed that the Sheeps’ TV money is so much higher than ours. Their US deal is interesting although it seems they are going to be the junior partner in the arrangement. I always thought it was a shame that Boston called their MLS team something shite (not literally) instead of Boston Hibernians as a few of my Bostonian chums had suggested. I think there’s an obvious tie up there though. I wonder if that sort of arrangement is on DaDooRonRon’s radar?

I’m also curious about what commercial income the Gunts have that we don’t. I assume this is merchandise and hire of facilities for functions but the marked difference seems odd especially as their shirts look like bowel cancer.

I wonder if K Power can illuminate us?





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greencol

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The sponsorship and commercial money at Aberdeen will probably be more than the others because of the oil industry.
If you check their sponsors a large number are probably oil and gas support firms.
Peterhead FC benefits greatly from many oil and gas support companies, too.
 

westsidehibs

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There shouldn't be as much as a gap regarding commercial money Dempster and co should be doing better.
 

Sir Shrink

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There shouldn't be as much as a gap regarding commercial money Dempster and co should be doing better.
Agreed.

I still find it incredibly strange that our head of sponsorship is the manager of the team that beat the Hibs Ladies in the Cup Final the other week.
But as it never gets mentioned anywhere, it must just be me that finds it weird.
 

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So on reflection, the gunts are turning over £15M and on top of that taking £3M in donations. Previous year was £12M and £2M (2018) We're turning over £9M (2018) - wow that is quite a gap.

Gate receipts and prize money/television money assuming are fairly similar £5M & £2M - say both are £7M means that the gunts have other turnover of £7M and we have other turnover of £2M.

I think there's more to this than meets the eye - but I've no idea why the gaps are so huge.
 

Hibee Kev

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So on reflection, the gunts are turning over £15M and on top of that taking £3M in donations. Previous year was £12M and £2M (2018) We're turning over £9M (2018) - wow that is quite a gap.

Gate receipts and prize money/television money assuming are fairly similar £5M & £2M - say both are £7M means that the gunts have other turnover of £7M and we have other turnover of £2M.

I think there's more to this than meets the eye - but I've no idea why the gaps are so huge.
Gunts have retail and catering done in-house whereas we outsource? I've read elsewhere and even on JKB that, if you take their anonymous donations out of the equation, they're running at an overall operating loss. Not sure on what the sheep's situation is.
 

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