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paigntonhibby

Bounce Radge
He's not a figurehead, he was just the last of many that made it explode. Theres protests and marches for hundreds of people wrongfully killed by the police and theres as many cases of the police getting off with it.

You agree with me, but I disagree with you.
As is your right
 

moathibby

Bounce Radge
Why the fuck are people still going on about that low-life scum, he was murdered, the folk that done it have been charged end of. There was a white guy killed in exactly the same way last year, never been mentioned. Not one protest , piece of vandalism or violence after 3 folk were murdered by a Muslim. So tell me, are we really as intolerant a society as some arseholes are trying to make us out to be.
yes
 

HibeeZab

Admin
Where is the BLM movement when it comes to black on black crime. 104 men, woman and children shot over Father’s Day weekend in Chicago. Most of it all gang and drug related. 13 year old girl hit in the neck and killed inside her house. There’s bigger problems than a handful of racists cops.

104 shot, 14 fatally, over Father’s Day weekend in Chicago
Black lives matter is, in essence, an anti racism movement (unless I’m mistaken), so same race crime isn’t their purpose?
 

Gareth

Bounce Radge
To be fair I've never tried to justify him being choked to death, I've said from the start the cops that done it deserve everything that's coming to them.I dont see black on black crime being nonsense, it's real.Where does the pay difference between black and white happen. I've led quite a varied life of employment and I've never come across it.Is powder cocaine a less serious drug than crack, I wouldnt know but I have heard crack is more addictive.War memorials have been spray painted and to be fair from what ive seen it's not just black guys that have done it but it's being done in the name of the movement.There is racism and inequality and it has to be addressed but it's my opinion the particular vehicle that BLM chose to try and move things forward was the wrong one
Not justify but reduce by making the victims past the issue, its a well trodden path in trying to nullify the importance of behaviours. 'Black on black' crime is a nonsense because there's no mirror in other forms of crime, its only ever crimes carried out my ethnic minorities where ethnicity is ever mentioned. I don't ever remember crimes where the majority are carried out by white people being referred to as white crime, or where the victims are white being white on white crime. Don't you see the insidious effect here?
Re pay, look it up, its well established. Why would you come across it given you're white? Thats the thing, there is this notion that if 'we've' not seen it then its probably not real, but we all live atomised lives to some degree where we can't possibly live or understand the lives of others.
Crack and other 'black' drugs are labelled more dangerous because black people take them.
I genuinley have not seen war memorials being spray painted, except one civil war memorial. The protecting war memorials thing was imagined by the right to try to emphasise 'our' culture and 'our' identity being under threat by these 'others'. It really wasn't and isn't real.
 

paigntonhibby

Bounce Radge
Not justify but reduce by making the victims past the issue, its a well trodden path in trying to nullify the importance of behaviours. 'Black on black' crime is a nonsense because there's no mirror in other forms of crime, its only ever crimes carried out my ethnic minorities where ethnicity is ever mentioned. I don't ever remember crimes where the majority are carried out by white people being referred to as white crime, or where the victims are white being white on white crime. Don't you see the insidious effect here?
Re pay, look it up, its well established. Why would you come across it given you're white? Thats the thing, there is this notion that if 'we've' not seen it then its probably not real, but we all live atomised lives to some degree where we can't possibly live or understand the lives of others.
Crack and other 'black' drugs are labelled more dangerous because black people take them.
I genuinley have not seen war memorials being spray painted, except one civil war memorial. The protecting war memorials thing was imagined by the right to try to emphasise 'our' culture and 'our' identity being under threat by these 'others'. It really wasn't and isn't real.
3 interesting points of view in Spiked by Katherine Barbalsingh, Ferdi Rous and Trevor Phillip's. Worth a read. There was a young female journalist fro. SPIKED interviewed by Piers this morning and he said he supported the removal of the statue in Bristol, her reply was that the removal of statues has not improved the life of blacks at all and basically only alienated people. Make of that what you will. Just to make myself clear I abhor racism or bigotry of any sort and I've no time for EDL or any other far right thugs, equally I dont think causing mayhem and looting does their cause any favours. You know and I know that the people who done that were in a tiny minority but we know that's what'll be reported and that's what sways people. Racists in this country are also in a minority.. Re your point about pay ,I've worked alongside many different ethnicities in my varied life and I've never worked alongside anybody who has been paid less than me doing the same job. I've got no doubt there are racist firms out there but surely we now have the tools to deal with them. Interesting little bit on Victoria just now about people objecting to being labelled BAME and the intolerance shown within that community to different ethnicities.I think it would help to stop asking questions such as are you british white british black or british Asian. If you're british your british.
 

moathibby

Bounce Radge
The facts are if you are black you are more likely to die of this virus, if you are black you are more likely to be unemployed, you are more likely to be in worse housing, you are more likely to be arrested or stopped by the police, you are more likely to be in a worse paid job .This is not down to some genetic makeup of BAME people it is down to systemic racism within society.If Ian Wright being called a coon is not indicative of this then I don't know what is.Society has gone backwards since Stephan Lawrence was killed more than 20 years ago not forwards.
 

paigntonhibby

Bounce Radge
The facts are if you are black you are more likely to die of this virus, if you are black you are more likely to be unemployed, you are more likely to be in worse housing, you are more likely to be arrested or stopped by the police, you are more likely to be in a worse paid job .This is not down to some genetic makeup of BAME people it is down to systemic racism within society.If Ian Wright being called a coon is not indicative of this then I don't know what is.Society has gone backwards since Stephan Lawrence was killed more than 20 years ago not forwards.
Calling Ian Wright a Coon is not indicative of systemic racism within society, its indicative of somebody being a white racist knob , just as the black guy who called him an Uncle Tom is indicative of being a black racist knob. Individuals being dickheads dont define society.
 

Hammi

Top radge
Admin
Calling Ian Wright a Coon is not indicative of systemic racism within society, its indicative of somebody being a white racist knob , just as the black guy who called him an Uncle Tom is indicative of being a black racist knob. Individuals being dickheads dont define society.
You're talking about people who are directly racist.
What you're missing is subconsciously, society is. Not wholly, not saying everyone is. But you're kidding us on thinking it's only a few individuals.

Things like black people being more likely to be armed, drugged etc etc so on and so forth.
That's all buried into the mind because that's the story that's been fed to everyone since year dot.

The fact that anyone is outraged at the thought of black lives matter being a thing, or that theyve finally been pushed to breaking point over the pond, shows that its deeper than a few people.

Not saying you are, but you're defending the fact that people are by reciting some of the propaganda.
 

GORDONSMITH7

**** The Hearts
Admin
Calling Ian Wright a Coon is not indicative of systemic racism within society, its indicative of somebody being a white racist knob , just as the black guy who called him an Uncle Tom is indicative of being a black racist knob. Individuals being dickheads dont define society.
Just wondering Tony my long term amigo, if you have watched Stephen: The Murder that Changed a Nation, last part being tonight. First 2 episodes are on i Player. Final episode tonight 11.30 . I like others on here watched it in 2018.

To anyone who has not watched it....do from the first episode.

To anyone who did watch it ...please watch again from the first episode.

The final episode deals with the Macpherson Report chaired by the ex Judge and soldier, published 20 years ago.

Brilliant socio documentary.

Have things changed dramatically since Stephen's death.

I do not think so.


BIG G
 
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paigntonhibby

Bounce Radge
Just wondering Tony my long term amigo, if you have watched Stephen: The Murder that Changed a Nation, last part being tonight. First 2 episodes are on i Player. Final episode tonight 11.30 . I like others on here watched it in 2018.

To anyone who has not watched it....do from the first episode.

To anyone who did watch it ...please watch again from the first episode.

The final episode deals with the Macpherson Report chaired by the ex Judge and soldier, published 20 years ago.

Brilliant socio documentary.

Have things changed dramatically since Stephen's death.

I do not think so.


BIG G
I will make a point of doing so over the next couple of days 👍
 

GORDONSMITH7

**** The Hearts
Admin
Nae bother mate.

BIG G
 

aggie

Justified Radge
Bounce Radge
Society has gone backwards since Stephan Lawrence was killed more than 20 years ago not forwards.
This is quite obviously and demonstrably utter nonsense (see Kenan Malik’s recent article if you need someone else to demonstrate it), but it’s hardly worth debating now with people who’ve decided it’s so. This kind of facile statement is indicative of the way public discourse is going.

Perspective and proportionality have gone out the window of late in general, and statistics have been basically dispensed with in favour of emotional opinions and frankly fatuous conflations.

I wish the Cowshed all the best, but this will be my last contribution after 13 years on this forum. I’ll stick to Hibs related posts from now on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

GORDONSMITH7

**** The Hearts
Admin
.QUOTE="paigntonhibby, post: 1702087, member: 13703"]
I will make a point of doing so over the next couple of days 👍
[/QUOTE]


Thanks Tony

BIG G
 

paigntonhibby

Bounce Radge
This is quite obviously and demonstrably utter nonsense (see Kenan Malik’s recent article if you need someone else to demonstrate it), but it’s hardly worth debating now with people who’ve decided it’s so. This kind of facile statement is indicative of the way public discourse is going.

Perspective and proportionality have gone out the window of late in general, and statistics have been basically dispensed with in favour of emotional opinions and frankly fatuous conflations.

I wish the Cowshed all the best, but this will be my last contribution after 13 years on this forum. I’ll stick to Hibs related posts from now on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you've been on here 13 years Aggie you obviously enjoy it so I wouldnt let anybody drive me off. I also think Moatys statement is mince by the way but he's entitled to say it. I dont think there's one person on here who agrees with me but I couldn't give one. I give my opinions on my life experiences and reading differing political opinions . I dont follow one political mantra on most things or jump on the latest fashionable political bandwagon. I mentioned 3 interviews in spiked yesterday ( shock horror he doesnt just read the daily mail / sun ) other right wing rags are available. They were very balanced and informative pieces, obviously too balanced for some on here because nobody mentioned them. There is racism and I dont think it's just odd individuals but I do think it's a minority. Statistics keep getting rolled out but unless you ask why? they are meaningless E.G ethnic minorities are underrepresented in the police, well yes they are but unless you know what % of ethnic minorities v % of whites actually applied to join then the statement means diddly squat.Despite what some on here think I support anti racism but I think the language and aims of the BLM are unnecessarily divisive. I've heard a lot about them obliterating the past but not a lot on how they plan to make black lives better in the future. I will watch as much as I can of Stephen over the weekend. Tin hat firmly in place.
 

vasco de gama

Bounce Radge
If you've been on here 13 years Aggie you obviously enjoy it so I wouldnt let anybody drive me off. I also think Moatys statement is mince by the way but he's entitled to say it. I dont think there's one person on here who agrees with me but I couldn't give one. I give my opinions on my life experiences and reading differing political opinions . I dont follow one political mantra on most things or jump on the latest fashionable political bandwagon. I mentioned 3 interviews in spiked yesterday ( shock horror he doesnt just read the daily mail / sun ) other right wing rags are available. They were very balanced and informative pieces, obviously too balanced for some on here because nobody mentioned them. There is racism and I dont think it's just odd individuals but I do think it's a minority. Statistics keep getting rolled out but unless you ask why? they are meaningless E.G ethnic minorities are underrepresented in the police, well yes they are but unless you know what % of ethnic minorities v % of whites actually applied to join then the statement means diddly squat.Despite what some on here think I support anti racism but I think the language and aims of the BLM are unnecessarily divisive. I've heard a lot about them obliterating the past but not a lot on how they plan to make black lives better in the future. I will watch as much as I can of Stephen over the weekend. Tin hat firmly in place.
Firstly, paragraphs make it way easier to read things 😁

I don’t think Aggie is saying Moaty is driving him away. I think he’s saying the cowshed isn’t as high quality as it used to be and he finds that decline too infuriating to remain. I’d agree the quality has all but disappeared. Dr Shrink’s jokes are about the only consistent element but his requests for photos have all but dried up.

To be honest the decline seems fairly consistent with the fall in reasoned debate in the world. Some people do still like to seek out information and listen to differing views but evidence seems to imply the majority don’t want to engage with long debate, complex reasoning, or instructions that are more than 20 words. It’s frightening how reluctant people are to read anything that isn’t a meme or doesn’t have a photo or video attached. I work in a healthcare setting where we have had multiple Covid deaths and yet a hell of a lot of my staff don’t read the updates we send out because they are too long - I’m talking about updates that are usually less than 200 words. That’s fucking scary.

Moaty’s point about society going down the tubes is a very interesting thing to consider. The article by Malik that Aggie encouraged us to read gave interesting statistics on how homosexuality and relationships between people of different colours are more widely accepted. I would agree that is true. However, I would also say that public displays of open racism or of things like sexism or homophobia etc have become more widespread. We now have many world leaders pushing agendas that are very divisive and this us versus them theme percolates through almost everything and ends us with things like anti-vaccine movements, anti-law and order movements, anti-education and science movements, anti-competitive sport in schools movements. It’s all so extreme that it wipes out real debate and threatens the freedom to stand somewhere between the extremes. It’s even right there in the SPFL situation where clubs push us v them narratives constantly. We are seeing vast sections of the world becoming intolerant of tolerant people.

I’m glad you pride yourself on seeking out differing views but would suggest you put forward 3 articles from varied publications rather than all from one website. Also it’s useful if you try differing styles of sources and not just ones that are fairly infamous for being agenda led. If I’m right Spiked identifies itself with a ‘libertarian’ attitude popular with ‘reformed’ marxists who in reality are idealists who got old and conservative with a small c.

Your point about blacks in the police kinda misses the point. Think about this: Is the KKK mostly made up of white people because not very many black people apply or is it because most black people don’t feel inclined to join it? My dad was a cop in London in the 1970s and 80s. He was a racist. An extended family member is a sheriff (seriously they call them that here) in Los Angeles in this current year and he is a racist. They were both well liked, respected, and typical of their colleagues.

Here’s something to consider. I have 2 sons. Both are the result of my marriage to a beautiful brown woman whose skin colour was a bit controversial 20 years ago to elements of my pasty white Scottish friends and relatives. All my friends and family no longer would bat an eyelid at the different skin colour so we maybe have progress as per Aggie / Malik’s article. However, 1 of my son’s looks almost completely like me but the other looks like a much darker version of me. They do not get treated the same by total strangers everywhere they go. That is why things like BLM exist.
 
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paigntonhibby

Bounce Radge
Firstly, paragraphs make it way easier to read things 😁

I don’t think Aggie is saying Moaty is driving him away. I think he’s saying the cowshed isn’t as high quality as it used to be and he finds that decline too infuriating to remain. I’d agree the quality has all but disappeared. Dr Shrink’s jokes are about the only consistent element but his requests for photos have all but dried up.

To be honest the decline seems fairly consistent with the fall in reasoned debate in the world. Some people do still like to seek out information and listen to differing views but evidence seems to imply the majority don’t want to engage with long debate, complex reasoning, or instructions that are more than 20 words. It’s frightening how reluctant people are to read anything that isn’t a meme or doesn’t have a photo or video attached. I work in a healthcare setting where we have had multiple Covid deaths and yet a hell of a lot of my staff don’t read the updates we send out because they are too long - I’m talking about updates that are usually less than 200 words. That’s fucking scary.

Moaty’s point about society going down the tubes is a very interesting thing to consider. The article by Malik that Aggie encouraged us to read gave interesting statistics on how homosexuality and relationships between people of different colours are more widely accepted. I would agree that is true. However, I would also say that public displays of open racism or of things like sexism or homophobia etc have become more widespread. We now have many world leaders pushing agendas that are very divisive and this us versus them theme percolates through almost everything and ends us with things like anti-vaccine movements, anti-law and order movements, anti-education and science movements, anti-competitive sport in schools movements. It’s all so extreme that it wipes out real debate and threatens the freedom to stand somewhere between the extremes. It’s even right there in the SPFL situation where clubs push us v them narratives constantly. We are seeing vast sections of the world becoming intolerant of tolerant people.

I’m glad you pride yourself on seeking out differing views but would suggest you put forward 3 articles from varied publications rather than all from one website. Also it’s useful if you try differing styles of sources and not just ones that are fairly infamous for being agenda led. If I’m right Spiked identifies itself with a ‘libertarian’ attitude popular with ‘reformed’ marxists who in reality are idealists who got old and conservative with a small c.

Your point about blacks in the police kinda misses the point. Think about this: Is the KKK mostly made up of white people because not very many black people apply or is it because most black people don’t feel inclined to join it? My dad was a cop in London in the 1970s and 80s. He was a racist. An extended family member is a sheriff (seriously they call them that here) in Los Angeles in this current year and he is a racist. They were both well liked, respected, and typical of their colleagues.

Here’s something to consider. I have 2 sons. Both are the result of my marriage to a beautiful brown woman whose skin colour was a bit controversial 20 years ago to elements of my pasty white Scottish friends and relatives. All my friends and family no longer would bat an eyelid at the different skin colour so we maybe have progress as per Aggie / Malik’s article. However, 1 of my son’s looks almost completely like me but the other looks like a much darker version of me. They do not get treated the same by total strangers everywhere they go. That is why things like BLM exist.
I'm sorry if I'm partly responsible for lowering the standards. I dont think he's saying moaty in particular but quoting moatys statement I think he means argueing those sort of unproven "facts" were partly to blame.I think society is going down the tubes, people refusing to take responsibility for their own actions, blaming everybody but themselves for their life choices when it all goes tits up,the litigation society sueing the council because they tripped over the pavement while texting. I must admit I haven't seen an increase in racism or homophobia to be fair , but I do agree with all your "anti" points. I used the "spiked" interviews because that is a publication that is used on here by certain folk to make a point when it suits.I'll take your word your dad was a racist but that was 40 or 50 years ago. A lot has changed.I would think there still are racists in the ranks but I dont think you can compare the force of the 70's with today. I dont think using the KKK to compare with the police is very realistic but it's probably a bit of both that's why I said you have to ask WHY?. I also dont think comparing attitudes in the UK to the US is meaningful
Things like BLM do need to exist to nudge people in the right direction but in the UK IMO BLM's done more to divide attitudes than bring them together. Statistics can be made to give out the information that suits your agenda.
Still no paragraphs and you knew it would just be a matter of time before Shrinky asked for one
 

broonieboy

On holiday Radge
Bounce Radge
I'm sorry if I'm partly responsible for lowering the standards. I dont think he's saying moaty in particular but quoting moatys statement I think he means argueing those sort of unproven "facts" were partly to blame.I think society is going down the tubes, people refusing to take responsibility for their own actions, blaming everybody but themselves for their life choices when it all goes tits up,the litigation society sueing the council because they tripped over the pavement while texting. I must admit I haven't seen an increase in racism or homophobia to be fair , but I do agree with all your "anti" points. I used the "spiked" interviews because that is a publication that is used on here by certain folk to make a point when it suits.I'll take your word your dad was a racist but that was 40 or 50 years ago. A lot has changed.I would think there still are racists in the ranks but I dont think you can compare the force of the 70's with today. I dont think using the KKK to compare with the police is very realistic but it's probably a bit of both that's why I said you have to ask WHY?. I also dont think comparing attitudes in the UK to the US is meaningful
Things like BLM do need to exist to nudge people in the right direction but in the UK IMO BLM's done more to divide attitudes than bring them together. Statistics can be made to give out the information that suits your agenda.
Still no paragraphs and you knew it would just be a matter of time before Shrinky asked for one
Fair play Paignton I agree that in some ways society is eroding. One of the biggest things contributing is the sense of entitlement that just pervades all levels of society. It brutally undermines every sensible and ordered thing we have.


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