Fao @haarlemshuffler - Dutch elections

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egb_hibs

egb_hibs

Private Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
I was reading that the ridiculously coiffed Geert Wilders mob are in in with a shout, but the election could end up pretty much any way up, from centre right to left, to hard right. I didn’t realise the Netherlands was at risk of being swept up in the far right tide sweeping across various countries.

How do you see it going ? Is the gist of what I have picked up how it looks from the Netherlands ?
 
egb_hibs said:
I was reading that the ridiculously coiffed Geert Wilders mob are in in with a shout, but the election could end up pretty much any way up, from centre right to left, to hard right. I didn’t realise the Netherlands was at risk of being swept up in the far right tide sweeping across various countries.

How do you see it going ? Is the gist of what I have picked up how it looks from the Netherlands ?
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Will be voting in a GE here for first time myself in 40+ years!

Sadly your gist is not quite eben as dark as I woyud paint it. The right has been on power for 12 years at least however you view coalitions so of course, as you often point out, the fact that the place could be doing better is the fault of the left!

You wouldn't read about it. Except in the mainly right-leaning mddia here in NL as they habe plenty input into what's left of state tv, not unlike the beeb.

But there are 5 big movers: the VVD (rightwing entrepreneurial free market types), PVV (Geert's one member 'party'), Lab/Green wedge (for 1st time on one list), the BBB (Farmers/'citizens' party, who stormed the recent Senate elecs but are currently 'bumping down' again) and finally the new show on the block, the NSC (NEW social Contract, a funny lot led by a guy you'd be better looking up on Wikipedia, Pieter Omtzigt? it's all too bizarre for words).

Anyway, not looking forward to it as Wilders could end up being the new Premier. Then bureaucrat extraordinaire Omtzigt could also make a killing. Folk are STILL going to vote for VVD (ffs @%€#@) and poor Frans Timmermans, who was drafted in by the left to give a figure of substance the job of leading the new left combo, looks like he might falter despite consistent if not spectacular polling of late.

It's all too familiarly depressing and I'm off for a liefown in a bit to steel myself for yet another fuckïn nightmare night of voting tomorrow.

Worst-csse: if Wilders gets in, I might not get ma pension in NL despite my double passport and years of work! 👹😡
 
Thanks. The pension thing sounds ridiculous, i hope that doesn’t come to pass whatever else does !
 
VVD is the best solution for the future of the Netherlands.

No to Climate Change hoax.
Less Immigration.

There's a few other good points they state.

And yes...I will vote.
 
Ryan69 said:
VVD is the best solution for the future of the Netherlands.

No to Climate Change hoax.
Less Immigration.

There's a few other good points they state.

And yes...I will vote.
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A neolib conservative to the end, eh? 🤭

Ach, well, enjoy the Fight on the Right.
 
@HaarlemShuffler why the negative take on NSC? I just looked them up on Wikipedia and their position is summarised (I don’t know how accurately) as;

“NSC has been described as anti-establishment,[16][28][29] Christian democratic[30][31][3] and close to communitarian philosophy.[31] Article 2 of the party's statutes speak of "personal responsibility, family and communities and distributed private property" as founding principles, while an accompanying programme of principles mentions notions including personalism, virtue ethics and the social market economy.[32]”

To be honest, based on that description, they’d be my preference over capitalists, hard rightists and leftists.
 
HaarlemShuffler said:
A neolib conservative to the end, eh? 🤭

Ach, well, enjoy the Fight on the Right.
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If the are a neoliberal party then it does seem odd given Ryan’s ‘concerns’

@Ryan69 why would you prefer the party of global capitalism and, dare I say it, ‘the new world order’, given your worries?
 
egb_hibs said:
@HaarlemShuffler why the negative take on NSC? I just looked them up on Wikipedia and their position is summarised (I don’t know how accurately) as;

“NSC has been described as anti-establishment,[16][28][29] Christian democratic[30][31][3] and close to communitarian philosophy.[31] Article 2 of the party's statutes speak of "personal responsibility, family and communities and distributed private property" as founding principles, while an accompanying programme of principles mentions notions including personalism, virtue ethics and the social market economy.[32]”

To be honest, based on that description, they’d be my preference over capitalists, hard rightists and leftists.
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The man only came to where he is now because during the last round of coalition negotiations, a photographer noticed on one of his press snaps a note sticking out of a previous minister's bag with "Put Omtzigt somewhere else..." - he was a noisy Christian Dem who with his eye for bureaucratic detail had managed to spot how the tax authorities were putting undue pressure on mainly 'new Netherlanders' (ie recent immigrants) to pay some levy that did not ultimately apply to them.

Next thing he is glorified enough to be goaded into leaving the CDems and starting his own movement. He then turns on the immigrants by agreeing to much sterner limits, which is why his old party is miffed at him. And jealous now of his polling.

But clincher for me he has dithered about whether he would work together with Wilders if they both ended up in a possible coalition. He is also pretty right wing on many social matters, much more than you would expect for a recent CDem.

And I wouldn't trust him afai could throw him.

Saying that, if he led a gov sans Wilders, it might be an knteresting and awkward time as he will eventually get bogged down in details and have another breakdown.
 
Got them mixed up before voting.

PVV all the way.

And the winners it would seem.

Which is a huge F You to the Globalists,and third world immigration. 👍

With Argentina's results...the tables are turning.
The people are speaking.
 
Had a wee look at the grauniad site this morning.
Far right this, far right that.

What are they going to do when a REAL far right party starts making headway?

Far right is a redundant term like calling opponents Nazis or Fascists.

I noticed the other parties are doing a 'its ma baw and your no playing' act.

Rather than ask WHY the electorate voted the way they did.

So to me that just shows the contempt they have for the electorate.

We WILL work with other parties but only if WE like them.

A plague on all their houses.
 
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EH17 Jimmy said:
Had a wee look at the grauniad site this morning.
Far right this, far right that.

What are they going to do when a REAL far right party starts making headway?

Far right is a redundant term like calling opponents Nazis or Fascists.

I noticed the other parties are doing a 'its ma baw and your no playing' act.

Rather than ask WHY the electorate voted the way they did.

So to me that just shows the contempt they have for the electorate.

We WILL work with other parties but only if WE like them.

A plague on all their houses.
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The likes of the Guardian are the precise reason this is happening. It’s so depressing. The next stage will likely be disappointment in lack of change from the Wilders of the world, or worse their obvious and visible thwarting by the establishment, as attempted with Brexit, and then the radicalism will ratchet up.

These guys wail about immigration but it’s needed to stop welfare states collapsing because the people complaining about immigrants don’t have enough kids and continue to want the state to give them stuff. The downward cycle seems pretty locked in; resentment and scapegoatery is far more attractive than doing what is needed to make countries self sustaining.

The latter is not likely to happen while people are free to have their cake and complain about how cakes are baked. By the time the contradictions become unsustainable things will be a lot worse and at that point I feel the real heidbanger right or left will enter the stage.

Meanwhile alongside this you have the looney left telling those immigrants that the civilisation we need them to integrate with is the root of all evil and responsible for all their ills. Fuelling another truckload of resentment and baiting a race war - while also turning the head of suggestible indigenous young people, whose confused resentment at their own shafting is being directed almost everywhere than where it should be. They are being pumped primed to be footsoldiers or some future resentment-vampire of right or left.

I can’t see a good way out.
 
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