Fan ownership

OfficialHSL

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#61
It’s very good IMO.

The biggest difference is AberDNA is a membership, HSL is a vehicle to buy shares. Personally I feel a membership would have been better for Hibs.

HSL feels somehow disconnected from the club, like it’s still a separate entity. AberDNA has it’s own easily accessible section of the clubs official website - I can’t find the same for HSL? Also Aberdeen’s has a clear mission statement, a clear goal, much better than HSL.
Hibeezab

Thank you for your thoughts, it does highlight an interesting dilemma.

In the past when the Club have sought voluntary funding we understand that there has not always been a great take up with some anecdotal evidence suggesting a reluctance from some to hand over money for nothing. We suspect that it was in response to this ( along with other reasons ) that the Board decided to progress with the current strategy where supporters are actually receiving something tangible in return, an ownership stake.

The most successful fan ownership group operates along similar lines, fans receive ownership in return for donations and that organisation is a seperate entity from the Club.

We believe our mission statement and goals are clear and would of course welcome any feedback that would allow us to make them clearer.

HSL
 
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#62
Having just seen AberDNA for the first time we aren’t really comparing like for like.

That is a membership scheme run by the club and looks like it will net about £100 per member per year. You get membership and benefits.

HSL is not a club membership, it offers the chance to help buy shares.

Now a nice mix of both would be ideal
NW

Thank you for your thoughts. Would be grateful if you could explain exactly what you mean to allow us to take this forward.


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Purple & Green

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#63
The most successful fan ownership group operates along similar lines, fans receive ownership in return for donations and that organisation is a seperate entity from the Club.
What group are you referring to?
 

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#65
Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were referencing Barcelona or something.

I thought the hsl model was distinctly different to foh but I think I’ve maybe not been paying attention.
 

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#66
We have often heard this issue raised and if this is something that is stopping supporters from donating to HSL we would like to help to remove the issue. Exactly what is not transparent ?

HSL
I think the mud slung at the scheme in the early days - the 'ponzi scheme' allegations (which of course was baseless pish) has resulted in some of it sticking. There is still an air of unease amongst many fans - and I mean diehard guys - who can't quite put their finger on it, but still think it may not be totally above board. It's a real shame that the scheme set up by real Hibs fans has been torpedoed by equally committed but misguided Hibs fans.
There are still those voices who persist in saying the scheme is topping up STF and Rodder's pension pots.
I suppose it comes down to faith.
Either you believe it's honest or you don't.

Happy to pay my £18.75 a month, and hoping that others who can afford it commit to a few quid as well.
 

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#67
Do foh own a single share in hearts yet?
 

OfficialHSL

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#69
Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were referencing Barcelona or something.

I thought the hsl model was distinctly different to foh but I think I’ve maybe not been paying attention.
They are reasonably similar :
Both Companies Ltd by guarantee
Both Companies owned by their Members
Both Companies operate in a democratic manner with a one Member one vote system
Both Companies are run by ordinary supporters
Both Companies are part owners of their Club
Both Companies rely on voluntary donations from supporters of their Club
Both Companies are trying to help their Club improve

Hope this helps.

HSL
 

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#70
I think the mud slung at the scheme in the early days - the 'ponzi scheme' allegations (which of course was baseless pish) has resulted in some of it sticking. There is still an air of unease amongst many fans - and I mean diehard guys - who can't quite put their finger on it, but still think it may not be totally above board. It's a real shame that the scheme set up by real Hibs fans has been torpedoed by equally committed but misguided Hibs fans.
There are still those voices who persist in saying the scheme is topping up STF and Rodder's pension pots.
I suppose it comes down to faith.
Either you believe it's honest or you don't.

Happy to pay my £18.75 a month, and hoping that others who can afford it commit to a few quid as well.
Sir Shrink

Thank you for your support.

You are right and the anti HSL folks really did do us harm, or to be more accurate did our team harm. Our view has remained the same however and if you cannot afford to donate that is fine and understandable. If you don't want to help by donating that is also fine and anyone's prerogative. What we do ask is not to harm your team by spreading untruths. If you don't understand , just ask and we are happy to explain.

Sometimes some folks can over complicate or over think matters. This is a simple scheme designed to help our Team improve.

HSL
 

HibeeZab

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#71
Hibeezab

Thank you for your thoughts, it does highlight an interesting dilemma.

In the past when the Club have sought voluntary funding we understand that there has not always been a great take up with some anecdotal evidence suggesting a reluctance from some to hand over money for nothing. We suspect that it was in response to this ( along with other reasons ) that the Board decided to progress with the current strategy where supporters are actually receiving something tangible in return, an ownership stake.

The most successful fan ownership group operates along similar lines, fans receive ownership in return for donations and that organisation is a seperate entity from the Club.

We believe our mission statement and goals are clear and would of course welcome any feedback that would allow us to make them clearer.

HSL
Thanks for the reply.

I feel the comparission between HSL & FOH is wrong on a number of levels, but primarily this: FOH was born out of desperation, and was the only vehicle to save their club from dying. Hibs fans do not have that same fear/pressure, hence HSL will never reach the same levels as FOH therefore making them fundamentally incompatible.

I take the point about voluntary schemes failing previously, but they all existed at time where the support was somewhat disenfranchised. The club and the supporters are now very much connected, so something similar to AberDNA would work well.

For the record I’m not anti-HSL, I pay into it each month, but I’m not convinced it’s the best vehicle for Hibernian Football Club to generate additional income from supporters who can afford to pay a bit more into the club - which should be the main aim given the club isn’t on its knees.
 
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#72
According to the terms of their scheme we understand that they will now own 35%

HSL
The information on the shareholding that they have is vague as an outsider looking in, although they definitely do now hold shares as they were gifted some when some Hearts Youth Development thing wound up and gave them to the foundation.

When the updates go into companies house simpletons like me will be able to see what the numbers really mean.

As above, I contribute to HSL and I have my own shareholding.

The bit that I struggle with is how you reconcile membership for life for £225 payment. In 30 years time HSL will have members that haven't contributed since the initial payment. Actually, the membership will always be growing from say 10,000 members to 20,000 to 30,000 over time? Many will be inactive of course losing interest.

I looked at the Barcelona model as I thought that's what you were referring to above and they have 100,000 members paying £140 a year and receive discounts on season tickets, merchandise, car insurance maybe..Isn't that what FOH do...provide incentives that HSL is committed to not supplying. Well not since the Loyalty points shambles. Indeed @SKII mentions above - such an incentive event that FOH recently were involved in.

I hate being critical unless its constructive, and as I've said above, I'm a contributor, but I'd happily pay £140 a year as a member of the owners of the club in return for incentives and discounts. With HSL, I'm struggling to see what the pull is to contribute past the initial £225 unless I do it in my childrens names so that they can be members too.

I could be wrong, but what @Sir Shrink alludes to above is that there is a group of hibs who could contribute who don't and that is probably the real challenge to engage them. HSL as it presently stands are only ever going to be a minority owner of the club, and I'm not sure that really excites enough people. Foundation of Hearts in that respect is very different.
 

NW

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#74
We have often heard this issue raised and if this is something that is stopping supporters from donating to HSL we would like to help to remove the issue. Exactly what is not transparent ?

HSL
I was referring to Hibs and transparency and not HSL. There is still a lack of understanding of what the main shareholders longer term plans are for Hibs and that is a concern for some.
 

SKII

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#75
I think the mud slung at the scheme in the early days - the 'ponzi scheme' allegations (which of course was baseless pish) has resulted in some of it sticking. There is still an air of unease amongst many fans - and I mean diehard guys - who can't quite put their finger on it, but still think it may not be totally above board. It's a real shame that the scheme set up by real Hibs fans has been torpedoed by equally committed but misguided Hibs fans.
There are still those voices who persist in saying the scheme is topping up STF and Rodder's pension pots.
I suppose it comes down to faith.
Either you believe it's honest or you don't.

Happy to pay my £18.75 a month, and hoping that others who can afford it commit to a few quid as well.
I've seen on social media some of the usual suspects getting ready to have another assault on the club/HSL.