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Could this be the Dawning of a New Era (The Specials)?

Seven Tattoos

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Saturday's derby victory was rather special. Special because it was the first time since Friday, 1 January 1965 that we won a league match at Swynecastle having lost the immediately preceding league home derby at Easter Road in the same season. On Saturday, 5 September 1964 hertz won 5-3 at Easter Road, but just four months later Willie Hamilton did this:

-

All of our subsequent victories against them at Swynecastle (we've won games against Meadowbank, St Johnstone (twice) and Dundee United in the interim) - until Saturday - have not been immediately preceded by a home league derby defeat.

Interestingly, the individual who runs the London Hearts website attributes our vastly superior derby record between 1965 and 1983 (we lost four league derbies and one Scottish Cup tie during this eighteen year period) to the inspiration derived from that New Year derby victory. Indeed, had hertz taken even a point that day, they might have won that season's league. Then again, had they only lost 6-1 at home to Dundee that season, they might have won the league that year!

Anyway, the question is: is this the dawning of a new era?!

-
 

ZemmamasBarnet

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How much time did they have on the ball?! Like watching English fitba now.
 

Greenmachine

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Hibs derby record between 1965 and 1983 was indeed exceptional...we have to remember of course that we only played Hearts twice a season in those years. Nevertheless we were truly dominant. We only lost two competitive derbies during the 1970's...4-1 at Tynecastle in 1973 and 2-1 at Easter Road in 1978. The trend was turned around in the 1980's with Hearts totally dominant....much helped by their prolific derby goalscorer John Robertson.
I've said for years that when one of the Edinburgh teams completely rules the other in derbies for long periods of time it isn't down to derby jinxes or hoodoos but due mainly to the dominant team being of a significantly higher quality than the other. For most of the time through the decades there has been very little to separate the two clubs. I do accept though that one thing which goes against my point and that is that in the late 1940's and early 1950's when Hibs were arguably the best team in Britain, we struggled even then to win derbies regularly. Lawrie Reilly always expressed great frustration at this.
 
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Greenmachine

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How much time did they have on the ball?! Like watching English fitba now.
The pace of the game has increased enormously over the years...this is one of the reasons there are far more injuries now. That and the fact that there are far more games played...a ridiculous amount IMO.
 

HaarlemShuffler

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...I do accept though that one thing goes against my point and that is that in the late 1940's and early 1950's when Hibs were arguably the best team in Britain, we struggled even then to win derbies regularly. Lawrie Reilly always expressed great frustration at this.
As my old man used to say - to my great chagrin cos he seemed to believe it and tho a jambo he was pretty honest about fitba' - "Never underestimate the Terrible Trio" - Conn, Bauld and someone else I can never remember :) Rhymed wi warbaugh ah think :devilishy:
 

Seven Tattoos

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As my old man used to say - to my great chagrin cos he seemed to believe it and tho a jambo he was pretty honest about fitba' - "Never underestimate the Terrible Trio" - Conn, Bauld and someone else I can never remember :) Rhymed wi warbaugh ah think :devilishy:
Jimmy Wardhaugh.
 

Seven Tattoos

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Hibs derby record between 1965 and 1983 was indeed exceptional...we have to remember of course that we only played Hearts twice a season in those years. Nevertheless we were truly dominant. We only lost two competitive derbies during the 1970's...4-1 at Tynecastle in 1973 and 2-1 at Easter Road in 1978. The trend was turned around in the 1980's with Hearts totally dominant....much helped by their prolific derby goalscorer John Robertson.
I've said for years that when one of the Edinburgh teams completely rules the other in derbies for long periods of time it isn't down to derby jinxes or hoodoos but due mainly to the dominant team being of a significantly higher quality than the other. For most of the time through the decades there has been very little to separate the two clubs. I do accept though that one thing which goes against my point and that is that in the late 1940's and early 1950's when Hibs were arguably the best team in Britain, we struggled even then to win derbies regularly. Lawrie Reilly always expressed great frustration at this.
I'll disagree with you - to an extent - re hertz' utter derby domination between 1983 and 1994 (we won only thrice during that holocaust of a spell for young Hibbies like I then was). Whilst I accept that between 1983 - 1987 (the 17 game unbeaten run) hertz were, without necessarily always having better players in every position, a far more effective team than us, I would argue robustly that for a spell between 1989 and 1994 (the 22 in a row) we had the better team. Yes, hertz were better than us between 1989 and 1992 (even though we won the Skol Cup in 1991), but between 1992 and 1994 we, in my opinion, were the superior side. The results during the 1993-94 season (the last five of the 22) emphasise my point:
- Sat, 21 Aug 1993: hertz 1-0 Hibs (Jackson s/o)
- Sat, 30 Aug 1993: Hibs 0-2 hertz (six days after the League Cup final)
- Weds, 12 Jan 1994: hertz 1-1 Hibs (Wright)
- Sun, 20 Feb 1994: Hibs 1-2 hertz (Wright; Scottish Cup 4th rd)
- Sat, 30 April 1994: Hibs 0-0 hertz

That Hibs team topped the table for a not insignificant spell during the autumn (incidentally, when we went top following the 3-1 win in Perth on Sat, 18 Sep, it was the first time we had ever - ever - topped the Premier League), beat Aberdeen thrice in the league, pished on the huns' title party and played some wonderful football. McAllister. O'Neill. Wright. Jackson. Weir. Lennon. Tweed. Leighton. Evans. hertz, on the other hand, battled relegation all season and only mathematically avoided it on the last day of the season wi a 1-0 win at Partick Thistle, who, conversely, went down that day. (The same day 7,000 Killie fans had an avoided-relegation party in Leith.) Yet they still beat us thrice. Here I think is where the mindset of we-will-not-lose-to-that-wee-team-fi-Leith which apparently prevails at Swynecastle becomes a factor. Which is acknowledged by Davie Farrell - who played in that Hibs team - in his excellent autobiography, 'Taxi For Farrell'. In one of his chapters, he details how the Kenny Blacks and Walter Kidds of this world were like psychotic marines from Full Metal Jacket desperate to spill blood for the Gorgie cause, and how Hibs lost the fight, and, consequently, the game. Alex Miller has, in my opinion, a lot to answer for here, because he singularly and consistently failed to inculcate the players with the need to outfight hertz before outplaying them. And that that was what was needed to win in these fixtures. hertz were, and are, phucking animals. A dirty, sneaky, fouling, industrial team. They tried it on on Saturday again, with their challenges on Gray and Omeonga. The worst example I can think of, off the top of my head, from that era is the game played at ER on Sat, 31 March 1990, when Neil Berry was only booked for an assault on Paul Wright which wrecked the latter's Hibs career and swung the balance of a game we were winning 1-0 (through a Mickey Weir goal). They subsequently won 2-1, with our attacking menace illegally blunted.

Incidentally, hertz' prioritising of the derby over other fixtures has gone on for years. They often drop players, rest players, gie chances to others who would never normally feature, play not to lose, play to avoid injuries and suspensions etc. in games immediately preceding a derby. Christ, they did only last week at Ibrox! And look how well that turned out for them!

Anyway, my point is, GM, that, while I concede that, generally, the better Edinburgh team achieves derby dominance, the exception to that rule is when one of the two places undue over-emphasis on winning that fixture to the exclusion of success in other fixtures. I can't recall Hibs ever operating that, and in all the many books i have read about our great history I cannot recall any reference to such conduct or such an attitude pervading our great club, but hertz certainly have operated that in spells during my time as a supporter (1983-84 season to present).
 

Greenmachine

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I certainly agree that Hibs had a superb team between 1991 and 1994...one of the best Hibs teams I have ever seen and skilfully put together by the much maligned Alex Miller. I agree completely that they placed much more emphasis on the derby than we did especially during Miller's time...this in fact is the only criticism I have of an otherwise IMO excellent Hibs manager.
Since 2014 and especially since our cup win in 2016 (when Hibs changed forever IMO), we have been probably the better side. Even though I personally don't get as worked up about derby matches as many Hibs fans do...(I've never enjoyed them as I hate the atmosphere and the tribalism), I very much hope we have many more derby wins in the years to come.
 

GORDONSMITH7

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Saturday's derby victory was rather special. Special because it was the first time since Friday, 1 January 1965 that we won a league match at Swynecastle having lost the immediately preceding league home derby at Easter Road in the same season. On Saturday, 5 September 1964 hertz won 5-3 at Easter Road, but just four months later Willie Hamilton did this:

-

All of our subsequent victories against them at Swynecastle (we've won games against Meadowbank, St Johnstone (twice) and Dundee United in the interim) - until Saturday - have not been immediately preceded by a home league derby defeat.

Interestingly, the individual who runs the London Hearts website attributes our vastly superior derby record between 1965 and 1983 (we lost four league derbies and one Scottish Cup tie during this eighteen year period) to the inspiration derived from that New Year derby victory. Indeed, had hertz taken even a point that day, they might have won that season's league. Then again, had they only lost 6-1 at home to Dundee that season, they might have won the league that year!

Anyway, the question is: is this the dawning of a new era?!

-
Did I even mention Willie Hamilton was my favourite ever player in Hibernian green and The Specials my favourite band in 2tone Black and White. So thanks Scottyboy, made my day mate. Thank you.
BIG G
 

Power

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A Hibernian veteran that sits beside me was waxing lyrical about Willie Hamilton at the Kilmarnock game - decent bit in the programme about him (picture below).

That’s three times in the last fortnight I’ve been telt all about him and his magic which came effortlessly.


9EAC5153-920E-4EBE-B544-63CD04719352.jpeg
 

Greenmachine

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A Hibernian veteran that sits beside me was waxing lyrical about Willie Hamilton at the Kilmarnock game - decent bit in the programme about him (picture below).

That’s three times in the last fortnight I’ve been telt all about him and his magic which came effortlessly.


View attachment 802
Pat Stanton said he was the best player he ever played with at Hibs and that is saying something. Jock Stein said he was one of the best players he had ever worked with and you can't get a better recommendation than that.
 

Power

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Pat Stanton said he was the best player he ever played with at Hibs and that is saying something. Jock Stein said he was one of the best players he had ever worked with and you can't get a better recommendation than that.
Will keep those nuggets of gold for the next home game where I can kick the conversation all off again.
 

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