Brexit

[bigmanandy]

Dominic Raab resigns as Brexit minister.....DUP ministers backing his resignation....

Esther McVey resigns now aswell, more expected.

Bye Theresa

What a jolly big mess.

 

[Bofahibee]

Is anyone feeling more in control now.


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[Jack]

A clusterfuck of gargantuan proportions.

With all the resignations and sackings I'm surprised there's any Tory bastards left to hold ministerial positions.

 

[bigmanandy]

Reece Mogg tabling a vote of no confidence apparently....

May lives on another planet, is it not clear to her this is a lost vote.

Scotland getting dragged down with England.

 

[Hibee Kev]

Bastards the lot of them. Opportunists full of self-interest that couldn't give a fuck about the best interests of the country, unless it aligns with furthering their own political ambitions. What a shambles.

 

[southfieldhibby]

DUP enraged that they're being given the best of both worlds and DEMAND the same gigantic slice of shit pie the rest of us are about to munch down on.

What a weird bunch.

 

[southfieldhibby]

Now JRM suggesting Esther McVey could be PM confirms this is just a mental Bobby Ewing style dream and I'm about to wake up in 2014 to find we voted YES and I've got a euromillions winning ticket tucked in my back pocket.

 

[bigmanandy]

Theresa May news conference at 5, could be offski.....

To be fair the leavers deal for Scotland won’t be any better.

 

[greencol]

Reece Mogg tabling a vote of no confidence apparently....

May lives on another planet, is it not clear to her this is a lost vote.

Scotland getting dragged down with England.

When interviewed last night the arsehole said he wouldn't be submitting a letter. By fuck, they sure are a bunch of backstabbing bastards these Tories.

 

[Hattie]

And people, even in Scotland, vote for these muppets

 

[Doc Shrink]

Reece Mogg tabling a vote of no confidence apparently....

May lives on another planet, is it not clear to her this is a lost vote.

Scotland getting dragged down with England.

Reece Mogg is brilliant!

He's a living version of Victorian Dad from the Viz.

One of the funniest politicians around - could easily compete with Boris or The Donald for pure buffoonery.

 

[Bofahibee]

I have absolutely no f**king clue what is going on anymore.


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[Purple & Green]

Nothing much really happened did it.

Why don’t they just execute Theresa and get on with it.

 

[Greenmachine]

Dominic Raab resigns as Brexit minister.....DUP ministers backing his resignation....

Esther McVey resigns now aswell, more expected.

Bye Theresa

What a jolly big mess.

So it's a case of Raab C Br-exit ....!...i'll get ma coat.

 

[tayside hibee]

I have absolutely no f**king clue what is going on anymore.


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Does anyone ? And I mean anyone .
It's like lemmings walking off a bridge! It's going to go to another vote I feel , though who knows!!!,

 

[Smurf]

The EU were never going to let the UK leave on good terms or easily. The EU need to send a message to any other members getting ideas of doing likewise. This deal is a disaster. We are kind of still in but with no say inside. Kind of out but not being able to enjoy the benefits that being out ought to bring. It's been poorly negotiated. We need to either be properly out or properly in.

 

[greencol]

The EU were never going to let the UK leave on good terms or easily. The EU need to send a message to any other members getting ideas of doing likewise. This deal is a disaster. We are kind of still in but with no say inside. Kind of out but not being able to enjoy the benefits that being out ought to bring. It's been poorly negotiated. We need to either be properly out or properly in.

Properly out or properly in?
You sound like my missus......

 

[southfieldhibby]

The EU were never going to let the UK leave on good terms or easily. The EU need to send a message to any other members getting ideas of doing likewise. This deal is a disaster. We are kind of still in but with no say inside. Kind of out but not being able to enjoy the benefits that being out ought to bring. It's been poorly negotiated. We need to either be properly out or properly in.

Why would The EU act in any other way? Get the absolute best deal you can to let future deal seekers know it's going to be tough. Like Man Utd selling Ronaldo to Real Madrid. Squeeze them for every penny.

As for any benefits that being out ought to bring, there is none.Unless you're an investment banker or a hedge fund.

 

[Smurf]

Why would The EU act in any other way? Get the absolute best deal you can to let future deal seekers know it's going to be tough. Like Man Utd selling Ronaldo to Real Madrid. Squeeze them for every penny.

As for any benefits that being out ought to bring, there is none.Unless you're an investment banker or a hedge fund.

Pretty obvious to know and understand exactly why the EU were never going to make it easy for the UK to leave. Saying that there are no benefits of being out isn't one I'd agree with. So before 1973 the UK enjoyed no benefits not being in the Common Market? I understand why many want to remain in the EU. However, I'm bemused when I look at it's diminishing trade figures with the rest of the world. And when I look at it's horrendous unemployment figures particularly youth unemployment. Then there's how the EU has treated Scotland in the Indy Ref 2014 and how it's currently treating Catalonia. The EU really is a nasty piece of work with not a lot to love. This now common misrepresentation that it's only right wing nut jobs wanting out of the EU is tragic. But then again so is the silence of the likes of Jeremy Corbyn to articulate opinions he's held over this the past 40 years.

 

[southfieldhibby]

There was a guy on QT last night mentioning how we managed during the world wars so why won't we manage now? Kinda same logic applies to pre-1973 I suppose. Of course we'll manage, of course we'll continue to exist, but we were promised something tangibly better than what we've got now, and that's simply never going to happen.

I've not looked at any trade figures, but I'd take a punt at that being misleading to be polite. I'd take a guess that the EU trade numbers are increasing, but not as fast as Asia, resulting in the ability for leavers to make that claim.

As for youth unemployment, I'd also take a punt that they're massively skewed by Spain and Greece? Two basket case economies dragging the average down. Not great, but hardly an indictment on the entire EU..

Not sure how they acted seriously badly during 2014...one guy- (Baroso) was a dick, but as a guy who iirc is in the pocket of basque fishermen, hardly surprising. Can't defend the inaction in Catalonia, that was terrible.

 

[moathibby]

As a Brexit voter I often look at bemusement at the narrative that things will be much worse out of Europe.We've got a water system that can't cope with floods, or droughts, with leaks and which you end up paying exhorbetant prices for a commodity that is natural,you've got an electricty system where the Govt won't invest in renewables but will bring in Foreign investors to supply us with Nuclear,where noone knows how to deal with the waste,where you have to change suppliers every year in order to get a good deal,and where the power companies make huge profits,but OAP's are scared to turn on the heat.You've got parking sites which charge more for two hours parking than the millions of low paid workers earn in an hour.
You've got millions of workers on unsafe contracts where they don't know from week to week what hours they are going to do.You've got a Social Security situation which means that Universal Credit meand impoverishment for million up and down the country.You've got a DWP department which has forced assesed workers back to work who have died within the same year sometimes within weeks of being assesed.When Ian Duncan Smith was in powere it ran to 140,ooo in the year it hasn't improved.
You've got a Rail System with ludicrously high faires and overcrowded trains,with a running dispute on whether or not there should be guards.You've got an NHS which was once the envy of the world which is now on the verge of collapse.You've got thousands of people on the streets,the amount of them dieying is a national disgrace, whilst the amount of social housing being built is at an all time low.Heavan forbid that we need to go through another Grenfell.We've got queues at foodbanks the likes of which have never been seen before.We've got huge coperations who aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax, with Directors raking in huge pay packets,we've got a banking system which we bailed out,which we never got recompense for where there is something called hedge funds which means that people like Cameron's father can put there money in an offshore fund and save on the tax.We've got the rise of the far right both here and in Europe which hasn't been helped one jot by being in the Eu or out.Poland has just seen a mass rally of over 200,thousand,Hungary has an open Fascist as a leader,Italy has taken a sharp turn to the right,Maria le Pen has grown in favour in France,the AFD has grown in Germany,Merkel has had a kicking in the latest German elections,Greek Workers are being shafted by the troika of Merkel, Macron and the Italians.
Meanwhile we've been led to believe there is free movement in Europe.Well tell that to the thousands of refugees that have died in the med, or have had their possesions and tents burnned to a cinder in Calais.We're being led to believe that Europe defends workers rights.We'll tell that to the thousands of workers who want to go on strike ,but can't because they are being hamstrung by the Tories anti union laws.In reality the only real rights that workers have now have been fought long and hard for here not sent down in dictat from some European parliament.
In reality the Eu is nothing more than an undemocratic bosses union,forcing austerity measures on us from it's neo liberal ideology.
So where do we go from here?Welll I think Mark Serwotka was quite right on Question Time,we should be demanding a general election, an election which we could decide to put in a govt. which can take the Brexit deal back to the table,and then if it fails then and only then we could go back to a second reforendom,but the question remains for the Remain group,what happens if we again vote to stay out?I want a situation where we can take care of our own laws ,where we can say,freedom of movement, should mean freedom of movement throughout the world,where we say,workers rights are socrosanct,where we say,we don't want to put up with austerity any more, where we don't have to be in Nato or tied to any trade agreements that don't benefit us.We should be asking for a peoples Brexit not this shambles.

 

[Jack]

While I wish I had the time to go through your post @moathibby even in retirement I don't think I do.

I'm genuinely surprised you chose to "attack" the EU. It is by no means perfect but there were signs of improvement.

Some of the issues you raised;
* nuclear power plants - commissioned by the Torys. Nothing to do with the EU. Water has nothing to do with them either.
* austerity - a recent report reiterated what we all knew, it was a Tory political decision that the poorest in society felt the effects while the rich got tax cuts.
* Hedge funds have nothing to do with the EU although the EU have brought in laws effective from 1 January 2019 that would limit the tax dodging etc. The UK were able to opt out of this. I don't think many non torys will benefit from this.
* The EU has nothing to do with the NHS. I can't remember the exact figure but under the radar on a good day to release bad news on the quiet the government put something like £50bn worth of English NHS contracts out to tender.
* According to the wee nerds at Westminster, the folk that look after all the stats and records, only 4% of UK legislation was "because" of the EU.

I could go on.

Has someone hacked your account?

 

[Bofahibee]

While I wish I had the time to go through your post @moathibby even in retirement I don't think I do.

I'm genuinely surprised you chose to "attack" the EU. It is by no means perfect but there were signs of improvement.

Some of the issues you raised;
* nuclear power plants - commissioned by the Torys. Nothing to do with the EU. Water has nothing to do with them either.
* austerity - a recent report reiterated what we all knew, it was a Tory political decision that the poorest in society felt the effects while the rich got tax cuts.
* Hedge funds have nothing to do with the EU although the EU have brought in laws effective from 1 January 2019 that would limit the tax dodging etc. The UK were able to opt out of this. I don't think many non torys will benefit from this.
* The EU has nothing to do with the NHS. I can't remember the exact figure but under the radar on a good day to release bad news on the quiet the government put something like £50bn worth of English NHS contracts out to tender.
* According to the wee nerds at Westminster, the folk that look after all the stats and records, only 4% of UK legislation was "because" of the EU.

I could go on.

Has someone hacked your account?

You’re going to tell me they didn’t outlaw bendy bananas next!


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[greencol]

Most of what you've laid out above are problems caused by Westminster, not the EU. They even play a part in the refugee crisis.

 

[Jack]

You’re going to tell me they didn’t outlaw bendy bananas next!


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I might :-)

 

[Bofahibee]

I might :-)

[emoji6] seriously though. So much anti- EU feeling was stirred up by the tories to divert attention from what they were doing. Cameron and Osborne have both admitted as much. The anti democratic myth is laughable too given that the UK is partly ruled by the unelected Lords. That said the Lords are actually often to be the last bastion of reason when a government is trying to ram through some odious policy or other. We have our own technocrats too but we call them civil servants. The EU is undoubtedly a bit of a neo-liberal cult but that reflects the politics of its main member countries. Need to elect more progressives/greens across the continent.


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[moathibby]

The point I was making about water electricity, the railways etc is that even if Labour want to renationalise them being inside Europe, European legislation makes it very difficult to do so.Therefor Labour have to go for Brexit if they want to carry out their manifesto commitments.

 

[Beagle]

The EU has stopped member states going to war again. The only rogue state these days is England and they're determined to drag us down with them.

 

[moathibby]

So we're no longer occupying France?I think the European countries are busy either fighting themselves or supplying their arms to bomb Syria or puting Nazis into power in Georgia.

 

[greencol]

As a matter of interest ,Moaty, which brexit deal did you vote for?

 

[Bossie]

Pretty obvious to know and understand exactly why the EU were never going to make it easy for the UK to leave. Saying that there are no benefits of being out isn't one I'd agree with. So before 1973 the UK enjoyed no benefits not being in the Common Market? I understand why many want to remain in the EU. However, I'm bemused when I look at it's diminishing trade figures with the rest of the world. And when I look at it's horrendous unemployment figures particularly youth unemployment. Then there's how the EU has treated Scotland in the Indy Ref 2014 and how it's currently treating Catalonia. The EU really is a nasty piece of work with not a lot to love. This now common misrepresentation that it's only right wing nut jobs wanting out of the EU is tragic. But then again so is the silence of the likes of Jeremy Corbyn to articulate opinions he's held over this the past 40 years.

What are the top 3 benefits of being out? And how long will it take to realise those benefits?

 

[Jack]

Get the number of your favourite takeaway handy, stock up on the popcorn.

Today was an absolute beezer with the Tory bastards being ragdolled at home and abroad. The next few days have a lot to live up to and think they will.

 

[Purple & Green]

It’s really important but I find it mind numbing and don’t listen to the news anymore.

Fast forward to the good bits please

 

[moathibby]

As a matter of interest ,Moaty, which brexit deal did you vote for?

Lexit.

 

[moathibby]

Costas Lapavitsas has just brought out a book, about the Left case for Brexit.I could have done with it two years ago.But if I get money for a Christmas pressie I want to get it.

 

[Jack]

Costas Lapavitsas has just brought out a book, about the Left case for Brexit.I could have done with it two years ago.But if I get money for a Christmas pressie I want to get it.

It could be a history book by then!

 

[joethehibby]

I'm running out of tv channels , if it's no brexshit it's steeeveee arite arite gerrard

 

[Hibee Kev]

What I took from the BBC's coverage last night; should the PM - as expected - lose the crucial vote on her Brexit terms next week, that leaves 4 or 5 possible scenarios?

1. Renegotiate Brexit terms
2. "No deal" (hard) Brexit
3. General Election
4. Second Referendum on Brexit
5. No Brexit

 

[Doc Shrink]

I'm running out of tv channels , if it's no brexshit it's steeeveee arite arite gerrard

Try Babestation.

Still plenty of tits, but not the one you mentioned.

 

[greencol]

What I took from the BBC's coverage last night; should the PM - as expected - lose the crucial vote on her Brexit terms next week, that leaves 4 or 5 possible scenarios?

1. Renegotiate Brexit terms
2. "No deal" (hard) Brexit
3. General Election
4. Second Referendum on Brexit
5. No Brexit

I reckon number one is a no no with the 27.
No.2 could be a goer.
No.4 could be on, too.
No.5 will have the brexiteers shitting bricks, so I don't think she could go there.
No.3 will happen whatever.