Theresa May will always put the Tory party before the country or anything else. I think no deal is virtually certain on that basis.
No, because that's not how everyone is elected to the House of Lords.But you know that I'm sure?So on the basis of that argument all members of the House of Lords are 'elected'?
See, this is one I hear a lot, and it just seems wilfully disingenuous. As @southfieldhibby has pointed out, they are not "unelected", at least not wholly so. And I think this is an important distinction to make in conjunction with your point about it being a "corrupt cartel" who runs things on behalf of business.For me it's a corrupt cartel. It's not run for the people of Europe. It's run for business. All these unelected commissioners.
Even they are more meaningfully "elected" than the board of Citigroup or Royal Dutch Shell, and crucially are at least fcukin visible.So on the basis of that argument all members of the House of Lords are 'elected'?
Fair comment, but the fact remains - they won't be in the poorhouse when the chickens come home to roost.You're definitely right that their culture is heavily opposed to the EU's new regs and they're terrified of its tax laws, so have been big advocates to get out for that reason.
But this notion that hedge funds are all going to make billions and therefore engineered it isn't the whole story. For their overall position most funds aren't like Crispin Odey's and the other bears - ie set up medium/long term to profit from falling UK markets. The majority prefer a strong economy with rising equities at least most of the time, which isn't to say that they won't opportunistically try to gain from something like Brexit, but their long-term net position - and that of big capital generally - is based on rising stock markets.
Odey's funds lost 60% of their value in early 2018 because the economy was much more buoyant than he'd bet so these guys aren't super svengalis pulling the strings at will. Rees Mogg's funds are all in emerging markets afaik so I'm not sure if brexit will have much effect on them. He and others like him will certainly already have hedged their UK-related positions by doing stuff like buying dollars etc but it's a defensive part of their strategy for most, not an Odey-style 'bet the farm' on disaster.
But don't get me wrong, I think these guys are about the biggest arseholes alive.
My understanding is that the only new members to the House of Lords are appointed. So the comparison isn't silly IMO. Saying Commissioners are elected isn't silly it's bonkers! They've got real power and have no democratic mandate.No, because that's not how everyone is elected to the House of Lords.But you know that I'm sure?
Nothing wrong with bicameral governments, nothing wrong with government appointed members of a second chamber. The issue becomes more muddied when the number is unlimited and they join hereditary members. So comparing that chamber with EU commissioners is silly.
That's a huge stretch! He obviously meant democratically elected in the sense that they could be removed by a mass vote in which all the electorate can participate.
I am a firm remainer but there are big problems with democratic representation in the EU, it has behaved pretty badly in lots of ways, especially to Greece, and it's partially created and then ignored crises on its borders. It's pretty uncontroversial to think that it needs reformed.
I think there's a really good chance of No Deal. And if it happens there's subsequently a very good chance that we will face a chaotic six months or more, not ruling out stuff like breakdowns in public order, swift rises in unemployment, food supply issues etc.
I can't disagree with either of these posts, but I think the frenzy over these 28 people who can't do anything without it passing through the hands of the elected Euro MPs has been overstated in the extreme.My understanding is that the only new members to the House of Lords are appointed. So the comparison isn't silly IMO. Saying Commissioners are elected isn't silly it's bonkers! They've got real power and have no democratic mandate.
I expect the rebate may come under serious pressure. Not totally, but various countries will start asking questions.Good post M.
What do you see as penalties down the road?
We'd be remaining on the same terms as we have at the moment. The only thing I can think of is it might take a while to again become one of the more influential members as Westminster has done it's best to diminish our credibility.
Yep absolutely. Ironically it often seems to come from people who barely vote anyway and who are always saying that all politicians are awful so what's the point etc.I can't disagree with either of these posts, but I think the frenzy over these 28 people who can't do anything without it passing through the hands of the elected Euro MPs has been overstated in the extreme.
Where I live just shades Remain but there's lots of brexiters. Some I speak to have thoughtful and thought-provoking arguments but it's notable that the vast majority genuinely think that we are much more powerful than 'foreigners' due to some sort of innate intellect and toughness, and that this makes Brexit desirable (because they're holding us back) and simple (because we are stronger and smarter than them).Well colour me gobsmacked. The UK doesn't have the same negotiating clout as the EU. Who knew?
It's one strand of reasoning for making voting compulsory, even if there's a 'none of the above' option.Yep absolutely. Ironically it often seems to come from people who barely vote anyway and who are always saying that all politicians are awful so what's the point etc.
I doubt it and I certainly hope not. I'm not sure the EU negotiators have a mandate to allow them to do so.Reckon the EU are gonna cave on the backstop? Looking like it to me...
Dont think it will pass today although I think it will be tight it looks as if DUP and ERG will vote against the deal a few in the house appear to have accepted this will probably be the only deal and it doesn’t matter how shite it is.The deal will pass; if not today, then at the next "meaningful vote". They are all bricking it that there might be no Brexit at all.