Beagle what is your professional opinion of this?

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egb_hibs

egb_hibs

Private Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
I'm not one to jump on the police - other than for their role in the inexcusable business of thought crime - they have a difficult job to do that involves things most armchair critics never have to face.

But surely this can't reflect police training, tasering a 93 year old with dementia, sat clutching a butter type knife and looking like he doesn't know what planet he is on.

His resulting hospitalisation appears to have resulted in him catching covd which killed him, just to put the cherry on the cake.

Imo all bets are off when police face perps with weapons and they have the right to use violence, but this surely ain't really that?

www.telegraph.co.uk

Disabled pensioner died of Covid weeks after ‘assault’ by police officers

Donald Burgess was allegedly Tasered, pepper sprayed and struck with a baton at a care home in East Sussex in June 2022
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
The way the story was first reported you'd have thought the auld lad was carrying one of those big zombie knives.

The polis act more like an occupation army than public sector employees.
 
I’m sure my daughter had worse things done to her when she worked in the secure wing of a care home but the police were never involved. It’s beyond belief, quite frankly.
 
egb_hibs said:
I'm not one to jump on the police - other than for their role in the inexcusable business of thought crime - they have a difficult job to do that involves things most armchair critics never have to face.

But surely this can't reflect police training, tasering a 93 year old with dementia, sat clutching a butter type knife and looking like he doesn't know what planet he is on.

His resulting hospitalisation appears to have resulted in him catching covd which killed him, just to put the cherry on the cake.

Imo all bets are off when police face perps with weapons and they have the right to use violence, but this surely ain't really that?

www.telegraph.co.uk

Disabled pensioner died of Covid weeks after ‘assault’ by police officers

Donald Burgess was allegedly Tasered, pepper sprayed and struck with a baton at a care home in East Sussex in June 2022
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
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In 30 years I used my baton once and my CS spray once. The baton on a 16 year old who was 6’2, ripped as fuck and a real handful on many occasions and, separately, the CS on a dickhead threatening all and sundry with a flick knife in a town centre who had been warned three times by my female colleague to drop the blade. She gave him two more chances than I would. Fortunately he folded like a deck chair.

As for this incident you highlight, it’s almost like health and safety gone mad and is driven by the use of discretion being curbed on officers by bureaucracy and the religious adherence to following things to the letter.

Yes, the circumstances here are horrendous and it will cause revulsion in the general public but the cops involved will have been following training protocols set by the politics of the day. The same bureaucrats who set the training parameters will be the first ones hanging the cops out to dry.
 
Beagle said:
In 30 years I used my baton once and my CS spray once. The baton on a 16 year old who was 6’2, ripped as fuck and a real handful on many occasions and, separately, the CS on a dickhead threatening all and sundry with a flick knife in a town centre who had been warned three times by my female colleague to drop the blade. She gave him two more chances than I would. Fortunately he folded like a deck chair.

As for this incident you highlight, it’s almost like health and safety gone mad and is driven by the use of discretion being curbed on officers by bureaucracy and the religious adherence to following things to the letter.

Yes, the circumstances here are horrendous and it will cause revulsion in the general public but the cops involved will have been following training protocols set by the politics of the day. The same bureaucrats who set the training parameters will be the first ones hanging the cops out to dry.
Click to expand...
Thank you and your reply strikes me as convincing. I'm not sure why the police were needed at all tbh. I'd have just just the door on the old berk to begin with and wait till he fell asleep.
 
egb_hibs said:
Thank you and your reply strikes me as convincing. I'm not sure why the police were needed at all tbh. I'd have just just the door on the old berk to begin with and wait till he fell asleep.
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Probably called by a staff member at the facility who’s employment remit is not to engage with a violent resident because it says so in the Care Homes for Dummies manual.
 
Beagle said:
In 30 years I used my baton once and my CS spray once. The baton on a 16 year old who was 6’2, ripped as fuck and a real handful on many occasions and, separately, the CS on a dickhead threatening all and sundry with a flick knife in a town centre who had been warned three times by my female colleague to drop the blade. She gave him two more chances than I would. Fortunately he folded like a deck chair.

As for this incident you highlight, it’s almost like health and safety gone mad and is driven by the use of discretion being curbed on officers by bureaucracy and the religious adherence to following things to the letter.

Yes, the circumstances here are horrendous and it will cause revulsion in the general public but the cops involved will have been following training protocols set by the politics of the day. The same bureaucrats who set the training parameters will be the first ones hanging the cops out to dry.
Click to expand...
Gone mad or maybe just starting to get more training from the American police...
 
The officer who sprayed the old boy "didn't notice" the wheelchair because he was only focused on the knife.
He should be sacked for being unable to see what is clear. I would say a quick word with staff on the way in would've led to him being made aware of this.
 
Westside Green said:
The officer who sprayed the old boy "didn't notice" the wheelchair because he was only focused on the knife.
He should be sacked for being unable to see what is clear. I would say a quick word with staff on the way in would've led to him being made aware of this.
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I blame the training and recruitment. You enter a situation such as that, you assess everything
 
Beagle said:
As for this incident you highlight, it’s almost like health and safety gone mad and is driven by the use of discretion being curbed on officers by bureaucracy and the religious adherence to following things to the letter.
Click to expand...

The "religious adherence" to training scares the bejeezus out of me. I've never had a particularly high opinion of police officers and now I think they are even worse. What they did to this man was despicable and totally unnecessary.


On a wider note, US cops that have that same "religious adherence" to their training often have fatal consequences and after a brief investigation are back on the beat because their actions were withing the bounds of their training. This sometimes results in changes to the training, e.g. not being allowed to use a particular choke hold or something. Occasionally there are exceptions e.g. George Floyd.
 
BurbankHibee said:
The "religious adherence" to training scares the bejeezus out of me. I've never had a particularly high opinion of police officers and now I think they are even worse. What they did to this man was despicable and totally unnecessary.


On a wider note, US cops that have that same "religious adherence" to their training often have fatal consequences and after a brief investigation are back on the beat because their actions were withing the bounds of their training. This sometimes results in changes to the training, e.g. not being allowed to use a particular choke hold or something. Occasionally there are exceptions e.g. George Floyd.
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I have no particular beef with cops who do a very difficult job, but while process very definitely has it's place, people who follow it slavishly scare me also .

There's a phrase for it in IT (along with other mishaps) ; "the operation went well, but the patient is dead". That's what happens when process overrides thought.
 
Here's another one for you @Beagle
Bet you would have loved to get this memo back in the day.

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Sancho Panza said:
Here's another one for you @Beagle
Bet you would have loved to get this memo back in the day.

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Oh we got some belters back in the day. I even put together a wind-up memo to be used on one of the custody staff saying that we were going to expand the fingerprint scanner to incorporate scanning of ear lobes. I even got one of the station inspectors to sign it (he was up for a joke). 🤣 Worked a treat too.

As for that thing you posted, back in my time nobody would have known what the point it was trying to make.
 
Sancho Panza said:
Here's another one for you @Beagle
Bet you would have loved to get this memo back in the day.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
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Goggling said facility I can see why the Ts would mourn said clinic, less sure about the LGBs given it reads to me like ot was advancing the proposition they weren't really male or female but 'intermediary'. One can see why the aggressively masculine spartan homosexuals of the SA wouldn't like that.
 
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egb_hibs said:
Goggling said facility I can see why the Ts would mourn said clinic, less sure about the LGBs given it reads to me like ot was advancing the proposition they weren't really male or female but 'intermediary'. One can see why the aggressively masculine spartan homosexuals of the SA wouldn't like that.
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You might find this interesting. Debunking the bullshit that trans were the first victims of Nazi persecution. There is literally nothing and nobody's oppression they won't appropriate.

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Sancho Panza said:
You might find this interesting. Debunking the bullshit that trans were the first victims of Nazi persecution. There is literally nothing and nobody's oppression they won't appropriate.

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Interesting. Tbf eugenics was a key preoccupation of progressive thought until the nazis embarrassed everyone. It never really went away either, continuing in progressive paradises like Scandinavia into our lifetime. Still happens today though in utero, so out of sight and thus mind. But where did all the dwarfs and downs people go...
 
Police unanimously found not guilty of assault and causing bodily harm...

Poor guy
As if the end of his life wasn't rough enough, 1 leg, wheelchair, dementia...

I understand the, got a knife, react to knife.
But surely they have to take the person holding the knife and the knife itself into account?

I don't think they should be police. They didn't assess that situation properly at all. I get they weren't given the information walking into the room, but they're trained to go in to situations blind and quickly figure it out.
 
It's hard to see in the video but reports say a butter knife type thing. Zero danger to cops in stab vests. The only danger that old boy poses was to himself and a laser is not the answer to that. Close the door, turn up the central heating. Wait half an hour.
 
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