Politics Autumn Statement

Forums New posts
GORDONSMITH7

GORDONSMITH7

Admin
Private Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Listened to the Autumn Statement on the wireless.
The BBC has had a contant stream of spokespersons on including both Tory and Labour so called Grandees.
The stick out buzzwords by both sets of charlatans that 'After the next election tough and unpopular decisions will have to be taken'.
Only a naive person does not know what that will entail for workers and their families.

socialist.net

Autumn Statement offers no relief for workers: Prepare for class struggle | The Communist

Today’s latest fiscal announcement from the Tories is another giveaway for the bosses, with no lifeline for the working class. We should expect nothing more from Sunak or Starmer. Instead, workers must get organised and fight.
socialist.net socialist.net

BIG G
 
Of course the biggest gainers from that nat insurance cut are the people who earn the most. No surprise at all, they must think the public are brain dead and wont realise who benefits the most 😡charlatans is a good word
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
Listened to the Autumn Statement on the wireless.
The BBC has had a contant stream of spokespersons on including both Tory and Labour so called Grandees.
The stick out buzzwords by both sets of charlatans that 'After the next election tough and unpopular decisions will have to be taken'.
Only a naive person does not know what that will entail for workers and their families.

socialist.net

Autumn Statement offers no relief for workers: Prepare for class struggle | The Communist

Today’s latest fiscal announcement from the Tories is another giveaway for the bosses, with no lifeline for the working class. We should expect nothing more from Sunak or Starmer. Instead, workers must get organised and fight.
socialist.net socialist.net

BIG G
Click to expand...
Rachel Reeves lambasting them for high taxes - its a topsy-turvy old world!
 
"The stage is therefore set for an almighty explosion of class struggle in the coming period. Workers must prepare for battle."

Poor old Labour
 
brianmc said:
Sadly a large part of the public are brain-dead, that's part of the reason these crooks have been in power so long.
Click to expand...
It’s a bit like giving everyone a 2% pay rise, obviously the more you earn the more your tise is , not rocket science . Tory barstewards 😡
 
egb_hibs said:
"The stage is therefore set for an almighty explosion of class struggle in the coming period. Workers must prepare for battle."

Poor old Labour
Click to expand...
Old Labour or more correctly Left Reformists think that pump priming Keyensian solutions can patch up Capitalism.
If you are honest, you know well that I don't.

BIG G
 
joethehibby said:
It’s a bit like giving everyone a 2% pay rise, obviously the more you earn the more your tise is , not rocket science . Tory barstewards 😡
Click to expand...
Politics is fucked in general.

The Tory's will always be the Tory's.

Labour have abandoned the very folk they were set up to represent

The libdems are a nonentity party.

The greens are barking.

And the SNP? They are I'm afraid in free fall. Scandal after scandal and 'it wisnae me'.

Labour are on course to win the next general election.

Then the chip chip away at Brexit will happen.

Fuck them all.

I'm weary of the liars, thieves an charlatans who call themselves politicians.

Fuckin lawyers passing laws that make other lawyers wealthy.

Not one prospective candidate ever appears on the doorstep.

So fvck them all.

I played my part in the biggest vote in UK history. Brexit.
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
Old Labour or more correctly Left Reformists think that pump priming Keyensian solutions can patch up Capitalism.
If you are honest, you know well that I don't.

BIG G
Click to expand...
Yeah I know. I mean poor Labour because they are coming into an immediate bust within a wider structural collapse that I don't see changing in any of our life times.

Their only option to try and get over the short term hump will be to maintain these cuts or cut further.

So they're going to cop it from the left from these lads as well as from the tory press
 
joethehibby said:
Of course the biggest gainers from that nat insurance cut are the people who earn the most. No surprise at all, they must think the public are brain dead and wont realise who benefits the most 😡charlatans is a good word
Click to expand...
I heard on the telly earlier that will cost £5bn.

The increased tax take due to freezing the tax allowances will be £18bn.

A lot of people, including pensioners, will next financial year start to pay tax as will the lowest paid (I'm not suggesting pensioners are all poor). Many others will jump to the next highest tax band.

The National Insurance will kick in 1st January (as far as I saw) and folk who pay NI will be a few quid better off.

I'll bet the election will be in the first 3 months of the year.

In April when the tax increases kick in everyone will be worse off.

First thing folk will see after Labour win the next election is a smaller wage packet courtesy of the bastard torys.

Taxes continue at record levels.
 
Jack said:
I heard on the telly earlier that will cost £5bn.

The increased tax take due to freezing the tax allowances will be £18bn.

A lot of people, including pensioners, will next financial year start to pay tax as will the lowest paid (I'm not suggesting pensioners are all poor). Many others will jump to the next highest tax band.

The National Insurance will kick in 1st January (as far as I saw) and folk who pay NI will be a few quid better off.

I'll bet the election will be in the first 3 months of the year.

In April when the tax increases kick in everyone will be worse off.

First thing folk will see after Labour win the next election is a smaller wage packet courtesy of the bastard torys.

Taxes continue at record levels.
Click to expand...
Didn’t know tax allowances were frozen and the bigger earners will get a lot more than the lower earmers because of the lower rate of nat insurance , no surprise there .
 
Jack said:
I heard on the telly earlier that will cost £5bn.

The increased tax take due to freezing the tax allowances will be £18bn.

A lot of people, including pensioners, will next financial year start to pay tax as will the lowest paid (I'm not suggesting pensioners are all poor). Many others will jump to the next highest tax band.

The National Insurance will kick in 1st January (as far as I saw) and folk who pay NI will be a few quid better off.

I'll bet the election will be in the first 3 months of the year.

In April when the tax increases kick in everyone will be worse off.

First thing folk will see after Labour win the next election is a smaller wage packet courtesy of the bastard torys.

Taxes continue at record levels.
Click to expand...
April was hinted at my work.
 
It goes like this.
our country had the chance to change its political landscape. For better or worse maybe, but the chance we had.

our country rejected that opportunity, and chose to remain with the same policies and elite establishment it has had for ( all my ) last 55 years.
We have to accept what our fellow country men and ladies voted for . You can’t call heads, then complain when heads is what you get.
Nothing has changed, nothing ever will. Be unlike me, and try and get over it. It is now, outwith our control. We can complain, moan, cry all we want, we will get the government England wants, and that, is , how it goes.
 
Labour are absolutely spot on to look to fight the Tories on the economy.

For 13 years the Tories have been the UK government and growth and productivity has been miserable.

Labour will inherit some mess and be hugely unpopular very quickly.
 
I'm not sure another round of austerity as trailed is honestly survivable (in a societal sense) Labour are nowhere, they have no answers. I want of this bus.
 
egb_hibs said:
"The stage is therefore set for an almighty explosion of class struggle in the coming period. Workers must prepare for battle."

Poor old Labour
Click to expand...
The sentiment isn't wrong though, we need to redefine the terms for the 21st century imo but there is a battle for the common good to be fought.
 
Jack said:
I heard on the telly earlier that will cost £5bn.

The increased tax take due to freezing the tax allowances will be £18bn.

A lot of people, including pensioners, will next financial year start to pay tax as will the lowest paid (I'm not suggesting pensioners are all poor). Many others will jump to the next highest tax band.

The National Insurance will kick in 1st January (as far as I saw) and folk who pay NI will be a few quid better off.

I'll bet the election will be in the first 3 months of the year.

In April when the tax increases kick in everyone will be worse off.

First thing folk will see after Labour win the next election is a smaller wage packet courtesy of the bastard torys.

Taxes continue at record levels.
Click to expand...
And that actually makes yesterdays Statement a Tax Increase as opposed to a reduction in Tax
 
Completely disillusioned with politicians and feel politically homeless. It feels like the last days of Rome with the Tories continuing to rape and pillage the public purse without any consequences. I cannot stand Labour or Starmer either and the SNP and nationalist vote seems to be fracturing with no sign of a unified approach.

I don't think I can remember a poorer bunch generally in Westminster in my lifetime. Not much better off in the scottish parliament either with very few impressing beyond schoolyard name calling of each other.

Can't see how things improve for ordinary people..personal freedoms and workers rights and conditions seem to be under attack all over the globe in the pursuit of making the top 1% richer and less accountable. No party or politician is going to change that.
 
I don't thi
Bangkokhibby said:
Do you pissed off voters not think that withholding or spoiling your vote plays right into the hands of the tories?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. The more spoiled papers the louder the call is that none of them are worth your vote.

Saying that I'd rather the ballot paper had 'none of the above money grabbing snout troughing arseholes above'.
 
gun ainm said:
The sentiment isn't wrong though, we need to redefine the terms for the 21st century imo but there is a battle for the common good to be fought.
Click to expand...
I’d say the sentiment is fairly dubious as it has been the battle cry for the most relentlessly murderous, oppressive and economically disastrous ideology in history.

It’s also dubious because the current sloganeers ignore or support the actually existing causes of today’s malaise. They are thus irrelevant and will be left spending their time trying to foment a race war.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
I don't thi

I don't think so. The more spoiled papers the louder the call is that none of them are worth your vote.

Saying that I'd rather the ballot paper had 'none of the above money grabbing snout troughing arseholes above'.
Click to expand...
Jimmy your first sentence is spot on mate.
Reality though would suggest that the hard core tory voters would be enough to sweep their bastard masters to power fo ever more.
I just can't help thinking that people's disillusionment with British political parties will only lead to more and more misery for those very same people
 
gun ainm said:
I'm not sure another round of austerity as trailed is honestly survivable (in a societal sense) Labour are nowhere, they have no answers. I want of this bus.
Click to expand...
Well what would you like to happen? I’ve been dinged for saying it for years but this is the inevitable and inescapable consequence of the way we live.

For all the wailing about NI cuts we are still heading towards the highest tax burden in the post ww2 era - we’re hardly walking in a Thatcher wonderland.

There is no money and while we might get temporary sugar rushes from the economic cycle, there will not again be money to fund what we are used to. It won’t be changed by antiquated ideas, because the causes are not as they were when those ideas were coined.

@Bangkokhibby is probably right - the best solution is to head for a historically poorer country and live out your days in a place where your relative spending power makes it comfortable. Such traffic will be in the opposite direction in the future.
 
gun ainm said:
I would too but for family, - can't/ won't leave them to this. I genuinely see the rest of my life to be about fighting for the services they need within what now feels like perpetual austerity
Click to expand...
I like the sentiment. Can you tell us what actions you will personally take in this fight?

Me, I feel pretty helpless as a lone voter in Scotland.
 
gun ainm said:
I would too but for family, - can't/ won't leave them to this. I genuinely see the rest of my life to be about fighting for the services they need within what now feels like perpetual austerity
Click to expand...
Yes, it will be. As a result of things that you favour or at least don’t oppose. I said on here at the time, to scorn, that new labour had broken things on a 100 year time frame. Though tbf they were only the ones that pulled the trigger and only in our locale; the gun has been loaded since the 1960s all over the western world, and then cocked since globalisation took wing in 70s US and 90s UK.

You talk of strikes but to what end? This isn’t about getting a greater share passed down from hoarders on the top floor. All that strikes do outside the public sector and geographically tied services is create more offshoring. In respect of the former they power more immigration. That’s why this city of London was busy trying to spike Brexit to the cheers of lefties everywhere.

It’s 2023 ffs, if you want a better future for your family dump the 1970s comfort blankets. At this rate I’ll be content if we don’t deliver them into a fascist regime.
 
Ofgem to raise the energy cap in January.
If you gained anything in the autumn statement, then an extra 8 quid a month for energy will take some ( if not all of it) of the gain away.
And with another energy cap raise expected in April.
Happy days are here again.
 
gun ainm said:
It does at an individual level but at some point it'd be powerful (like strikes)
Click to expand...
If the public vote collapsed across all parties one thing is for sure, tories would always have enough supporters to keep them in power. Why would they do anything to address peoples disillusionment?
 
greencol said:
Ofgem to raise the energy cap in January.
If you gained anything in the autumn statement, then an extra 8 quid a month for energy will take some ( if not all of it) of the gain away.
And with another energy cap raise expected in April.
Happy days are here again.
Click to expand...
Kind of related to this, I noticed the INEOS (formerly BP) Grangemouth refinery is to close in 2024 which raises concerns about energy security.

INEOS have threatened this before but reckon it might actually happen this time.
 
It's weird but when I speak to folk of a certain political persuasion on the left I almost find myself thinking like a Tory.

I spoke to someone the other day who was moaning about the state of the country. How public services have never been so bad. How government is corrupt. How there's hopeless and incompetent leadership. So far so good and I was in complete agreement.

I then asked "So what's the answer?". I then got a reply that we needed a change of government but Starmer was a Tory as was pretty much all of Labour. Now I fundamentally disagree with that. It's a POV that's so typical of how politics is these days. And yet if that or anything else said is repeated ad nauseum then it absolutely sticks. However, I didn't challenge him on it and instead asked what direction and policies he'd like to see from a different kind of government.

And what I got was pay rises for everyone, huge investment in all public services, huge increase in pensions and benefits. Apparently we are a rich country and can afford it. Of his wish list I suspect even most Tory Government ministers would be happy to see in some fantasy world.

So I asked him how we would pay for it all. Oh the money is there apparently and that's why we can afford wars etc. And we are a rich country and just need to tax more. Just that the English don't want that and that's why we need independence.

So. Simple. If only eh....

And yet he was a fairly articulate guy and I'm sure his views are shared with many.

I pointed out that wars are horrendous things but actually the total cost financially isn't that much and wouldn't really transform public services if all spent on them instead. And on tax I explained we've never been so heavily taxed. Turns out he wants us plebs to be taxed less and we can get all the money from the rich.

I'd agree that there's ways we can get the rich (my definition of rich most certainly isn't a higher band taxpayer...) to contribute more to society. However, it's a tough balancing act and isn't easy if you want to avoid it going the other way where your net amount ends up less....

But the point is the idea that we can live in this perfect society with everything perfect on the back of the rich is an absolute nonsense. It's so immature it's unreal. It simply isn't living in the real world.

The current Labour leadership are thankfully pragmatic. I think they'll be a little bit more radical than their left haters (they don't want government) believe. However, you've got to think that such is the mess they'll be swimming against a huge tide and they'll quickly be hugely unpopular with a populist Tory opposition led by Nigel Farage not an entirely unrealistic proposition....
 
I have to say, I’m very adept at arithmetic, but struggle to comprehend what the price cap means and how it translates in to what we pay. If someone could explain in layman’s terms that would be great . Does it mean the cost per unit is capped at a certain level which ultimately means it still depends on how many units you use 🤷‍♂️
 
Doing some quick sums on the NI reduction and the change in the Energy Cap this is what it means to me:

NI Reduction - £36 a month better off in my pay packet - £432 per annum

Energy Cap - £18 a month more on my Direct Debit - £216 per annum

So £216 better off per annum, however increases in all other aspects of life will completely drown that!

Now I wouldn't describe myself as rich but nor am I poor (I've been lucky enough to have always been employed in my almost 64 years) the people who will suffer most from yesterday's statement are the people on the lowest incomes.

It feels like the Tories are trying to put the country in the worst possible position they can as they know they will lose the next election.
 
joethehibby said:
I have to say, I’m very adept at arithmetic, but struggle to comprehend what the price cap means and how it translates in to what we pay. If someone could explain in layman’s terms that would be great . Does it mean the cost per unit is capped at a certain level which ultimately means it still depends on how many units you use 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

A fairly simplistic way at looking at it is:

For every £100 you pay on energy you will pay £5-£6 more after the price cap changes.

So if you are paying £200 per month today, you will pay about £212 per month after the change.

Think that's right, but happy to be told different
 
gun ainm said:
It does at an individual level but at some point it'd be powerful (like strikes)
Click to expand...
Strikes to what end?
Smurf said:
It's weird but when I speak to folk of a certain political persuasion on the left I almost find myself thinking like a Tory.

I spoke to someone the other day who was moaning about the state of the country. How public services have never been so bad. How government is corrupt. How there's hopeless and incompetent leadership. So far so good and I was in complete agreement.

I then asked "So what's the answer?". I then got a reply that we needed a change of government but Starmer was a Tory as was pretty much all of Labour. Now I fundamentally disagree with that. It's a POV that's so typical of how politics is these days. And yet if that or anything else said is repeated ad nauseum then it absolutely sticks. However, I didn't challenge him on it and instead asked what direction and policies he'd like to see from a different kind of government.

And what I got was pay rises for everyone, huge investment in all public services, huge increase in pensions and benefits. Apparently we are a rich country and can afford it. Of his wish list I suspect even most Tory Government ministers would be happy to see in some fantasy world.

So I asked him how we would pay for it all. Oh the money is there apparently and that's why we can afford wars etc. And we are a rich country and just need to tax more. Just that the English don't want that and that's why we need independence.

So. Simple. If only eh....

And yet he was a fairly articulate guy and I'm sure his views are shared with many.

I pointed out that wars are horrendous things but actually the total cost financially isn't that much and wouldn't really transform public services if all spent on them instead. And on tax I explained we've never been so heavily taxed. Turns out he wants us plebs to be taxed less and we can get all the money from the rich.

I'd agree that there's ways we can get the rich (my definition of rich most certainly isn't a higher band taxpayer...) to contribute more to society. However, it's a tough balancing act and isn't easy if you want to avoid it going the other way where your net amount ends up less....

But the point is the idea that we can live in this perfect society with everything perfect on the back of the rich is an absolute nonsense. It's so immature it's unreal. It simply isn't living in the real world.

The current Labour leadership are thankfully pragmatic. I think they'll be a little bit more radical than their left haters (they don't want government) believe. However, you've got to think that such is the mess they'll be swimming against a huge tide and they'll quickly be hugely unpopular with a populist Tory opposition led by Nigel Farage not an entirely unrealistic proposition....
Click to expand...
it’s how reactionary the left is, how utterly mired in a passed era, that gets me. That and self disempowering - turning themselves into passive victims of some imagined hoarding of loot by the Tory’s and their chums, in an utter refusal to understand the modern world.

I suppose it might be psychologically easier than facing the role of one’s own ideals in where we are now, or the choices that underpin it.

Not that the liberal right are much better, flailing around trying to pump some life into the corpse of an ex system. Meanwhile, the hard left and right rub their grubby paws, and pour fuel on the fire.

It’s all quite dispiriting tbh.
 
Our political system is a dead rubber in every sense, we need a more democratic system that represents and reflects our society and the communities we live, PR is needed Nationally IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
  • Menu
  • Home
  • Hibs Chat
  • New Posts
  • Just Back
  • Chatroom