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Thread: The injuries excuse

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    The injuries excuse

    Maybe it's just me, but I cannot for the life of me understand why Tony Mowbray, the media, and certain Hibs fans are blaming yesterdays 4-0 mauling on having too many injuries. I am not disputing for one minute that the manager was left with very few options, but he along with a lot of pundits are putting our embarrassing defeat down to that reason alone. Not so IMO. Let's examine the crucial moments of the game:

    In the first half possession was about even, with Hearts looking more "up for it" in general, and playing with more purpose. However, IMO they did not seriously threaten a goal until we made a blunder in the midfield, and once again we were caught on the break. We were then left with 4 on 3 and a goal was inevitable. Before this however, we had missed three decent set-piece headers, so probably should have got the first goal. With a bit of luck we would have went in level at half-time.

    In the second half, without having to create anything, Hearts are gifted three goals by the goalkeeper. Bingo 4-0. Nothing to do with injuries and key players out, everything to do with poor team selection (goalkeeper in particular), bad tactics, indiscipline, and basic errors.

    Hibs did not look ready for the game, They were second to just about every ball, and Hearts seemed to want it more. Who is reponsible for that ? The players, yes,but also the manager. However when you look at the game it was basic errors, the same ones we have been seeing all season, and bad preparation which really cost us.
    Last edited by Greenmachine; 03-04-06 at 19:56.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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    Maybe it's just me, but I cannot for the life of me understand why Tony Mowbray, the media, and certain Hibs fans are blaming yesterdays 4-0 mauling on having too many injuries. I am not disputing for one minute that the manager was left with very few options, but he along with a lot of pundits are putting our embarrassing defeat down to that reason alone. Not so IMO. Let's examine the crucial moments of the game:

    In the first half possession was about even, with Hearts looking more "up for it" in general, and playing with more purpose. However, IMO they did not seriously threaten a goal until we made a blunder in the midfield, and once again we were caught on the break. We were then left with 4 on 3 and a goal was inevitable. Before this however, we had missed three decent set-piece headers, so probably should have got the first goal. With a bit of luck we would have went in level at half-time.

    In the second half, without having to create anything, Hearts are gifted three goals by the goalkeeper. Bingo 4-0. Nothing to do with injuries and key players out, everything to do with poor team selection (goalkeeper in particular), bad tactics, indisciplie, and basic errors.

    Hibs did not look ready for the game, They were second to just about every ball, and Hearts seemed to want it more. Who is reponsible for that ? The players, yes,but also the manager. However when you look at the game it was basic errors, the same ones we have been seeing all season, and bad preparation which really cost us.
    Tony Mowbray is still in credit with the support but IMO he's beginning to run out a little. From now until the end of the season is crucial. We simply must finish 4th.

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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    Maybe it's just me, but I cannot for the life of me understand why Tony Mowbray, the media, and certain Hibs fans are blaming yesterdays 4-0 mauling on having too many injuries. I am not disputing for one minute that the manager was left with very few options, but he along with a lot of pundits are putting our embarrassing defeat down to that reason alone. Not so IMO. Let's examine the crucial moments of the game:

    In the first half possession was about even, with Hearts looking more "up for it" in general, and playing with more purpose. However, IMO they did not seriously threaten a goal until we made a blunder in the midfield, and once again we were caught on the break. We were then left with 4 on 3 and a goal was inevitable. Before this however, we had missed three decent set-piece headers, so probably should have got the first goal. With a bit of luck we would have went in level at half-time.

    In the second half, without having to create anything, Hearts are gifted three goals by the goalkeeper. Bingo 4-0. Nothing to do with injuries and key players out, everything to do with poor team selection (goalkeeper in particular), bad tactics, indisciplie, and basic errors.

    Hibs did not look ready for the game, They were second to just about every ball, and Hearts seemed to want it more. Who is reponsible for that ? The players, yes,but also the manager. However when you look at the game it was basic errors, the same ones we have been seeing all season, and bad preparation which really cost us.
    I totally agree. I know we had a lot of injuries that did not help but the team out there was capable of pulling off a victory if each of them had put in 100% and kept the ball on the ground.

    I would not have minded if we had lost 4-0 with four great goals scored by the Gunts but we gifted them each one which annoys me.

    Apart from the 2-0 game at ER, Hearts have looked much more up for the derby games especially yesterday's game, and I want to know why that is. Is it the players who just don't care as much as the gunts or,dare I say it, is it Tony who isn't getting the players fired up?

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    You cant expect to beat Hearts with key players like Killen Brown Boozy Riordan and Stewart missing. And they are key players and all would have been playing. That said the players on the pitch are of a decent enough standard to have got a result and were shocking. Dont know if they were told to play long ball but 7 times out of 10 they chose to anyway.

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by CadgeMac
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    very good post, im not blaming the defeat on injuries but surely with atleast 3 or 4 of the key players that were out in the team yesterday we could have done it.

    killen would have given the defence all sorts of problems
    deek would have done better with the set pieces and he always seems to score screamers against hearts.
    then mikey,scotty and boozy almot a whole midfield aswell as deano and antonio murray.
    Agreed - Killen could have done damage yesterday. Ivan might be the second coming in many people's eyes but he needs the ball at his feet, not punted high and handsome. Benji too, looks like he could get in about them with more match practice and the right kind of service.

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    When I was told on the radio Sunday morning we had four players out and just who they were my heart(sorry) sank.
    We just do not have the squad or depth.
    Had we been with those players sure the game would have been alot closer.
    [I]My heart was broken,
    sorrow,sorow.
    DAVE ROBERTS,
    SOUTHAMPTON

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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    Maybe it's just me, but I cannot for the life of me understand why Tony Mowbray, the media, and certain Hibs fans are blaming yesterdays 4-0 mauling on having too many injuries. I am not disputing for one minute that the manager was left with very few options, but he along with a lot of pundits are putting our embarrassing defeat down to that reason alone. Not so IMO. Let's examine the crucial moments of the game:

    In the first half possession was about even, with Hearts looking more "up for it" in general, and playing with more purpose. However, IMO they did not seriously threaten a goal until we made a blunder in the midfield, and once again we were caught on the break. We were then left with 4 on 3 and a goal was inevitable. Before this however, we had missed three decent set-piece headers, so probably should have got the first goal. With a bit of luck we would have went in level at half-time.

    In the second half, without having to create anything, Hearts are gifted three goals by the goalkeeper. Bingo 4-0. Nothing to do with injuries and key players out, everything to do with poor team selection (goalkeeper in particular), bad tactics, indisciplie, and basic errors.

    Hibs did not look ready for the game, They were second to just about every ball, and Hearts seemed to want it more. Who is reponsible for that ? The players, yes,but also the manager. However when you look at the game it was basic errors, the same ones we have been seeing all season, and bad preparation which really cost us.
    5 things IMO were wrong on sunday
    1/the depth of our squad or lack of depth was all there to see.a few injurys along with suspentions=the bare bones
    2/caldwell should have been in midfield not whittaker.both i thought were lost in these positions
    3/glass i hope went home and had a good look at himself in the mirror.when we needed a bit of bite in the middle of the park he was powderpuff
    4/2 wee guys up front....we are a great passing team....WHY THE LONG BALLS THEN???????
    5/ZIBBI

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by blue toon hibby
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    Ivan might be the second coming in many people's eyes but he needs the ball at his feet, not punted high and handsome.
    Which begs the question why the high and handsome approach which was meat and drink to the Gunts defence.
    From Skye to Leith, the home of the Hibees

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    dont get me wrong up to the point zibbi lost the plot and started to gift the Gunts the goals i thought we hade a good chance at pegging the Gunts back to 1-1.

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by LanarkHibs
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    Which begs the question why the high and handsome approach which was meat and drink to the Gunts defence.
    Particularly when Tony said in yesterday's press..

    "My players will know the things i dislike," said Mowbray. "For instance, i don't want them to aimlessly hook the ball over their shoulder up the field or aimlessly throw the ball down the line from throw-ins."


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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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    Maybe it's just me, but I cannot for the life of me understand why Tony Mowbray, the media, and certain Hibs fans are blaming yesterdays 4-0 mauling on having too many injuries.
    It wasn't Tony Mowbray who had 4 great opportunites in the first half to hit the target but struck each miles over the bar. It wasn't Tony Mowbray who was assinged the right back position but drifted into centre defence at every opportunity ultimately gifting the first goal. It wasn't Tony Mowbray who let his frustrations get the better of him, miss-positioned himself at free-kicks or was anonymous in midfield.

    Our strikers had a combined age of under 40 and one of them has never even played a minute of reserve team football. The goals were never going to fly in but if Whitty had more composure and basic errors weren't made we could have been 2 or 3 up at half-time and cruising. That's football.
    'I'd rather see my sister in a brothel than my brother in a Hearts scarf'

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by The__Proclaimer
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    It wasn't Tony Mowbray who had 4 great opportunites in the first half to hit the target but struck each miles over the bar. It wasn't Tony Mowbray who was assinged the right back position but drifted into centre defence at every opportunity ultimately gifting the first goal. It wasn't Tony Mowbray who let his frustrations get the better of him, miss-positioned himself at free-kicks or was anonymous in midfield.

    Our strikers had a combined age of under 40 and one of them has never even played a minute of reserve team football. The goals were never going to fly in but if Whitty had more composure and basic errors weren't made we could have been 2 or 3 up at half-time and cruising. That's football.
    Completely missing the point of my post. The 4-0 gubbing has been blamed almost entirely on a lack of players available. With the possible exception of the first goal (which also came about through a basic error), the other goals were gifted to Hearts on a plate by the goalkeeper not doing the basics of his job properly. How does having lots of injuries result in that happening ?. It was basic errors by well-paid professionals which cost us the game, and at least David Murphy has had the guts to come out and say it publicly.
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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Have to be honest, I'm not sure I like Tony Mowbray much. He has the motivational skills of a snail and seems incapable of psyching up the team. Just listen to his pre and post match comments, no determination and no fight.

    Not saying he's a bad manager, but Hibs just don't seem motivated under him.

    Yesterday's performance was just plain lazy, Hibs looking like they just couldn't be bothered.

    We WERE capable of winning yesterday.

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by HibeeSned
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    Have to be honest, I'm not sure I like Tony Mowbray much. He has the motivational skills of a snail and seems incapable of psyching up the team. Just listen to his pre and post match comments, no determination and no fight.

    Not saying he's a bad manager, but Hibs just don't seem motivated under him.

    Yesterday's performance was just plain lazy, Hibs looking like they just couldn't be bothered.

    We WERE capable of winning yesterday.
    Totally disagree mate, we had no chance with all those people missing. It wasnt as if it was one or two from each area, we were missing our entire midfield apart from thomson, not a good thing if you want to play passing football. We were almost forced into the long ball, and we had no success with that because of the lack of height.


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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by HibeeSned
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    Have to be honest, I'm not sure I like Tony Mowbray much. He has the motivational skills of a snail and seems incapable of psyching up the team. Just listen to his pre and post match comments, no determination and no fight.

    Not saying he's a bad manager, but Hibs just don't seem motivated under him.

    Yesterday's performance was just plain lazy, Hibs looking like they just couldn't be bothered.

    We WERE capable of winning yesterday.

    Every manager has his own style, and his own way of motivating players. Arsene Wenger and Allan Curbishley don't seem the obvious motivating types but they always get the best out of their teams. I just think that the injuries problem (bad though it was) is being used as a bit of a red herring. The goals were lost through a recurrence of basic defensive errors and very poor concentration by the goalkeeper.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by 500miles
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    We were almost forced into the long ball, and we had no success with that because of the lack of height.

    Aye because Thomson Glass Whittaker Fletcher Sproule Murphy are all terrible at passing a ball on the ground

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Even with a full strength outfield team, they'd still be toiling to make up ground after the gross goalkeeping errors we saw yesterday.

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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    Completely missing the point of my post. The 4-0 gubbing has been blamed almost entirely on a lack of players available. With the possible exception of the first goal (which also came about through a basic error), the other goals were gifted to Hearts on a plate by the goalkeeper not doing the basics of his job properly. How does having lots of injuries result in that happening ?. It was basic errors by well-paid professionals which cost us the game, and at least David Murphy has had the guts to come out and say it publicly.
    I'm trying to back you up. We were down to the bare skeleton of our squad and we could have still beat a Hearts team second in the league and with a squad boosted by 11 new players in January.

    Rumours of Tony Mowbray's demise are premature.
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  19. #19
    Quite a bit past it radge






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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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    Completely missing the point of my post. The 4-0 gubbing has been blamed almost entirely on a lack of players available. With the possible exception of the first goal (which also came about through a basic error), the other goals were gifted to Hearts on a plate by the goalkeeper not doing the basics of his job properly. How does having lots of injuries result in that happening ?. It was basic errors by well-paid professionals which cost us the game, and at least David Murphy has had the guts to come out and say it publicly.
    I'm not sure if it missed the point of your post Greenman, it just added to it. The injuries deprived us of a settled team formation, but some of those who played just failed to play at a decent level.
    For what it's worth I think Proc has made valid points, although your basic premise that the goalkeeper threw the game with his comedy goalkeeping is undeniable.
    My head went down a bit when I saw the team selection, and that was before I anticipated the goalkeeping blunders.
    I read Murph's remarks and he didn't miss anybody.
    Rightly so.

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by The__Proclaimer
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    I'm trying to back you up. We were down to the bare skeleton of our squad and we could have still beat a Hearts team second in the league and with a squad boosted by 11 new players in January.

    Rumours of Tony Mowbray's demise are premature.
    Sorry mate, I misunderstood you. I go along with what you say there.

    Also agree that Mowbray will be at ER a long time, and I am still confident he can get us success eventually.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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    Also agree that Mowbray will be at ER a long time, and I am still confident he can get us success eventually.
    Not so sure of that. Could easily get poached very soon. Then again he still has a lot to prove. He got already good players playing football but if he is unable to take a team like ours to the next level by adding to his already very good team then he may indeed be here for longer than expected.

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by GloryGlory
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    Not so sure of that. Could easily get poached very soon. Then again he still has a lot to prove. He got already good players playing football but if he is unable to take a team like ours to the next level by adding to his already very good team then he may indeed be here for longer than expected.
    Tony Mowbray has done a good job. In my lifetime he's by far our best all round manager. That can't be disputed IMO.

    However, NOTHING apart from improvement has yet been achieved. To get to actual achievement we need much more improvement.

    The nucleas is there, with some great young potential, but a Goalkeeper, Defence and spine, required to achieve, is still far away..

  23. #23
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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Had the players actually TRIED though, the result would at least be less embarrassing...

    It just looked sloppy and lazy.

    But yeah, the injuries did contribute. And it's a bit tougher now with big Garry O'Connor gone

  24. #24
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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Hearts didn't have to play that well to beat us.
    We need to sort out the defence. I can't be the only one who panics whenever the ball is near our own penalty area and I am not just talking about Zibi.
    We need a pair of strong Centre Half's - Caldwell should have gone in January, Smith in my opinion does a decent job against lesser opposition but struggles against better quality / quicker players, Hogg is still too inexperienced and to small.
    For a start, I would like to see Konde given an opportunity on Weds night, at the moment he seems to be going down the same route as Rudge did - occasional appearance then nothing.
    Murphy is the only defender that does his job - defend.

  25. #25
    A True Gadgie/Gadgess *chops's Avatar
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    Re: The injuries excuse

    I think the "injuries" excuse is an entirely valid one. Yes, injuries also had an impact on the Hearts team, but, as Tony Mowbray has said, when you are able to replace one experienced international player with another one (Fyssas replacing Pressley, for example), that impact is simply not comparable to that which injuries had upon our team selection.

    In my opinion, Hibs first choice "front six", playing in a 451/433 formation would be -

    ...........Stewart.....Beuzelin.....Thomson

    Brown...............................................Riordan

    ...........................Killen....................

    Of those six players, only Kevin Thomson was available yesterday, meaning that we were missing 5 first choice players, ie half a team. The simple fact is that our replacements were not of the quality of those upon which Hearts could call. This is totally down to cash - they have it, we don't. We've built our reputation under Tony Mowbray as a tremendous attacking team - how can we be expected to play in that manner without 5 of our best players on the park?

    I don't think the game yesterday was a "four niller", as we basically gave them three goals. Well done to Hearts for exploiting our mistakes, but, had those errors not been made, I doubt Hearts would have scored more than one. We dealt with anything they were able to create of their own accord pretty well, and could have had a goal or two ourselves in the first half.

    Tony Mowbray still has my complete confidence.

  26. #26
    Radge Private Member
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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by GloryGlory
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    Aye because Thomson Glass Whittaker Fletcher Sproule Murphy are all terrible at passing a ball on the ground
    Aye but apart from Murphy and Thomson, they lack the stregnth to hold on to the ball long enough to pick out a good pass. And don't try to tell me that Whittaker passing has been good this season


  27. #27
    Radge Donator

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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by *chops
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    I think the "injuries" excuse is an entirely valid one. Yes, injuries also had an impact on the Hearts team, but, as Tony Mowbray has said, when you are able to replace one experienced international player with another one (Fyssas replacing Pressley, for example), that impact is simply not comparable to that which injuries had upon our team selection.

    In my opinion, Hibs first choice "front six", playing in a 451/433 formation would be -

    ...........Stewart.....Beuzelin.....Thomson

    Brown...............................................Riordan

    ...........................Killen....................

    Of those six players, only Kevin Thomson was available yesterday, meaning that we were missing 5 first choice players, ie half a team. The simple fact is that our replacements were not of the quality of those upon which Hearts could call. This is totally down to cash - they have it, we don't. We've built our reputation under Tony Mowbray as a tremendous attacking team - how can we be expected to play in that manner without 5 of our best players on the park?

    I don't think the game yesterday was a "four niller", as we basically gave them three goals. Well done to Hearts for exploiting our mistakes, but, had those errors not been made, I doubt Hearts would have scored more than one. We dealt with anything they were able to create of their own accord pretty well, and could have had a goal or two ourselves in the first half.

    Tony Mowbray still has my complete confidence.
    Totally agree with you. It was the fact were hammered 4-0, not that we didn't play as well as we could with a full squad available. The last three goals were goalkeeping errors. At 1-0 we still had a half chance of even a replay despite the team we had out. Injuries partly accounted for the poor showing, but too many senior players turned in a rank rotten performance. Goalkeeping errors was the reason we were hammered.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

  28. #28
    Radge Private Member
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    Re: The injuries excuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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    Injuries partly accounted for the poor showing, but too many senior players turned in a rank rotten performance. Goalkeeping errors was the reason we were hammered.
    I hope our manager thinks that also.

  29. #29
    get off yer bum an sing radge


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    Re: The injuries excuse

    I heard interview with TM shortly after game finished and he said that although we lost a few to injury he COULDN'T use that as an excuse and that he had to be confident with who he put on the park. He did however allure to the fact of Gunts huge squad giving another hint to the directors he needs more money.

    A few points though. 1. bearing in mind Boozy, Brown, Shiels, Murray and Stewart were missing. Few people could forecast that amount of injuries/suspension. So we have 8/9 midfielders which normally would be plenty. So I find it hard to critisize directors for not supplying enough money in that particular area.

    2. We chose to sell O'Connor knowing we were in a semi. That was a joint director/manager/financial decision. The fact we did it knowing Morrow and McDonald was out on loan and that Benji did not at that time have a work permit was leaving us perilously short up front (Im not even going to count Konte as a forward here) Fletcher has potential but face it the guy is only 17 so cant be expected to take the kind of burden this weekend offered.

    3. TM does need to learn when to hold his hands up and admit he needs changes, Konte wont make it, The goalies can be sold now as far as Im concerned, I doubt Morrow is going to make the grade but Ill reserve judgement there.

    4. McCluskey needs to know if he has a future. It is no good bringing the lad on when we are 0-3 down, what is that going to achieve Give him a chance when the game can be salvaged or he will feel he is simply a last resort.


    I didnt actually see if McCluskey made any difference as I was leaving when he came on, though I doubt he had time to make an impression.

    Anyway I just hope we rob Gunts of a championship place when we meet them in the last derby of the season. And if that sounds bitter then make it 2 pints

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