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    Share Donations

    We are delighted to report that we continue to receive kind donations of Shares from ordinary supporters as can be seen here http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/news.html

    Please contact us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if you would like to donate shares.


    HSL

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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    We are delighted to report that we continue to receive kind donations of Shares from ordinary supporters as can be seen here http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/news.html

    Please contact us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if you would like to donate shares.


    HSL
    That new website aint responding too well eh


    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...
    They've only gone and done it..
    They've only gone and won The Scottish Cup.




    Bounce Hibs Ladies Player Sponsorship

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
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    That new website aint responding too well eh
    Unusable on an iPhone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    Unusable on an iPhone
    And on samsung. Tumblr pish imo

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    Please please tell me that's NOT the new website that 5K+ has been spent on?

    Won't work on my phone. $#@! sake it's basic stuff FFS....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Please please tell me that's NOT the new website that 5K+ has been spent on?

    Won't work on my phone. $#@! sake it's basic stuff FFS....
    From that link;


    NEW WEBSITE

    In response to a number of comments on the quality of our website, at the AGM we agreed that a new version with improved communication and fundraising facilities would be commissioned. The new build is currently underway and the new website will be launched in the very near future.
    They're gone, not here, forgotten
    The maroon brigade now cry
    The city is now Hibernian
    The team that would not die


    [© Daddy O'Hibee]



    If you don’t know what introspection is, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself

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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    We are delighted to report that we continue to receive kind donations of Shares from ordinary supporters as can be seen here http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/news.htmlPlease contact us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if you would like to donate shares.HSL
    Until such time this becomes a fans initiative and have no hibs directors on HSL board. Also, removing McKaskill. It will continue to be a struggle. I think it's wrong trying to get individual fans to give up thier shares. I think it's great we have over 30% in various hibs fans hands. HSL need to stand on it's on two feet to reach the 20% target. We already have two disastrous fans reps on the Hibs board. Based on HSLs performance to date it would be a third fans rep , which offers nothing

  8. #8
    Easy Now Radge



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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Until such time this becomes a fans initiative and have no hibs directors on HSL board. Also, removing McKaskill. It will continue to be a struggle. I think it's wrong trying to get individual fans to give up thier shares. I think it's great we have over 30% in various hibs fans hands. HSL need to stand on it's on two feet to reach the 20% target. We already have two disastrous fans reps on the Hibs board. Based on HSLs performance to date it would be a third fans rep , which offers nothing
    My 20 blabs a month goes to the pot for Hibs to buy better players. That is all. I don't care about the politics of it all. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford it and I hope if other peeps can? then they do it too.

    If it gets us better players then everything else just disnae really matter. In the grand (old team) scheme of things, I'm not thinking about McAskill.. I'm thinking about McGeouch.

    That's the way I see it

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy View Post
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    My 20 blabs a month goes to the pot for Hibs to buy better players. That is all. I don't care about the politics of it all. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford it and I hope if other peeps can? then they do it too.

    If it gets us better players then everything else just disnae really matter. In the grand (old team) scheme of things, I'm not thinking about McAskill.. I'm thinking about McGeouch.

    That's the way I see it

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
    I agree with that beefy. Not sure about any benefits from this man giving his shares to HSL though, except a cheeky wee photo with a proclaimer? No financial benefit to HSL, the same % of shares in fan ownership stays the same, just this guy giving away his shares, for no apparent reason?

    Am I missing something?

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    when was the HSL AGM mentioned in link above?

    never got an invite although pay in every month

    coming to think of it have never had a certificate and no replies to emails months ago after sending form in
    until the sky turns green

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I agree with that beefy. Not sure about any benefits from this man giving his shares to HSL though, except a cheeky wee photo with a proclaimer? No financial benefit to HSL, the same % of shares in fan ownership stays the same, just this guy giving away his shares, for no apparent reason?

    Am I missing something?
    I think the benefits will be that HSL get to their own desired targets sooner i.e. when they have 20% they get a director and as mentioned above at 26% HSL then have the power to block, say, a takeover [should their members decide].
    Space to let

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy View Post
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    My 20 blabs a month goes to the pot for Hibs to buy better players. That is all. I don't care about the politics of it all. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford it and I hope if other peeps can? then they do it too. If it gets us better players then everything else just disnae really matter. In the grand (old team) scheme of things, I'm not thinking about McAskill.. I'm thinking about McGeouch. That's the way I see it Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
    The money does not go directly to Lenny. It goes into the pot to run the football club. There are many costs associated to running the club. Also, it's been quite clear from day one HSL want a rep on Hibs Board. I notice on .net HSL are sliding away from that stance. Which is disingenuous and misleading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    The money does not go directly to Lenny. It goes into the pot to run the football club. There are many costs associated to running the club. Also, it's been quite clear from day one HSL want a rep on Hibs Board. I notice on .net HSL are sliding away from that stance. Which is disingenuous and misleading.
    I don't believe that to be true.

    Hibs have already covered their running costs through other income so any extras will be able to go to the player fund.

    Indeed Hibs have said in the recent past all season ticket money goes into the player fund so with super sales/income from consequentials it's unlikely they'll need the couple of 100k from HSL to keep the lights on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    I think the benefits will be that HSL get to their own desired targets sooner i.e. when they have 20% they get a director and as mentioned above at 26% HSL then have the power to block, say, a takeover [should their members decide].
    26% of shareholders can block a takerover- if desired. Being under the control of HSL is irrelevant? And HSL already have a board member, Leanne Dempster! Also Frank and Tracy if they contribute.

    I'm not against HSL in any way, I contribute, but it seems to be a wee bit of advertising and nothing more.Except that guy is no longer a Hibs share holder.

  15. #15
    Quite a bit past it radge






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    My Hibs Share Certificate is framed on my wall.
    I can’t think why I would want to give it away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Shrink View Post
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    My Hibs Share Certificate is framed on my wall.I can’t think why I would want to give it away.
    Snap. Had it for best part of best part of the 30 years. I love the fact I'm a shareholder. Would love for other fans to become individual shareholders. But leave the running of the club to professionals. But we can block a mercer or a straiton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Shrink View Post
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    My Hibs Share Certificate is framed on my wall.
    I can’t think why I would want to give it away.
    I've never been in a position to buy shares, if I ever can, I'll not be giving them away!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    I don't believe that to be true.Hibs have already covered their running costs through other income so any extras will be able to go to the player fund.Indeed Hibs have said in the recent past all season ticket money goes into the player fund so with super sales/income from consequentials it's unlikely they'll need the couple of 100k from HSL to keep the lights on.
    Hibs haven't used that for years . Unless I missed it. Also Rod stepped in at a meeting to confirm money goes football department. The club does not ring fence money. Only time I can recal money being ring fenced in the account ms was Hibs 100 donations. Also, costs aren't meet. We lost money last year.

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    Quite a bit past it radge






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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Snap. Had it for best part of best part of the 30 years. I love the fact I'm a shareholder. Would love for other fans to become individual shareholders. But leave the running of the club to professionals. But we can block a mercer or a straiton.
    Spot on.
    I suspect we both ‘invested’ to try and thwart Mercer and received the share certificate then. I’d imagine every single Hibs fan would never contemplate giving that up. It will go to family when I pop my clogs.

  20. #20
    Easy Now Radge



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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Hibs haven't used that for years . Unless I missed it. Also Rod stepped in at a meeting to confirm money goes football department. The club does not ring fence money. Only time I can recal money being ring fenced in the account ms was Hibs 100 donations. Also, costs aren't meet. We lost money last year.
    Yip.' Football matters' is what they called it and that's good enough for me. It is a fact that the money brought in by HSL helped towards the package to sign Dylan.

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy View Post
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    Yip.' Football matters' is what they called it and that's good enough for me. It is a fact that the money brought in by HSL helped towards the package to sign Dylan.Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
    That's cool. Any extra money going to hibs. HSL can't claim they helped sign Dylan. Individual shareholders have purchased more shares than HSL. No one group or individual can claim that. Dylan's contract is three years. A one off contribution is quickly spent running the club / football dept

  22. #22
    Easy Now Radge



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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    That's cool. Any extra money going to hibs. HSL can't claim they helped sign Dylan. Individual shareholders have purchased more shares than HSL. No one group or individual can claim that. Dylan's contract is three years. A one off contribution is quickly spent running the club / football dept
    HSL didn't claim it. Hibs stated it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy View Post
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    HSL didn't claim it. Hibs stated it.
    Marketing spin like giving HSL loyalty points. Trying to get fans to sign up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I've never been in a position to buy shares, if I ever can, I'll not be giving them away!
    I bought £200 worth 2 years ago when the club did a really simple online process for a short window of opportunity. No idea why it was restricted. I love my wee shares certificate. If I ever get myself back on my feet career and money wise I will do HSL but I'm struggling as to why if I owned the £200 or £2000 or £20,000 of shares I'd hand it over to HSL?

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    Easy Now Radge



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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Marketing spin like giving HSL loyalty points. Trying to get fans to sign up.
    Aye, OK then. Well, If that's the case then I hope it works.

    I'm not one for telling peeps what to do with their cash but I certainly would never tell peeps NOT what to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Hibs haven't used that for years . Unless I missed it. Also Rod stepped in at a meeting to confirm money goes football department. The club does not ring fence money. Only time I can recal money being ring fenced in the account ms was Hibs 100 donations. Also, costs aren't meet. We lost money last year.
    We could discuss this forever, in fact we have!

    Given the lights have never gone off and our accounts show we pay our bills unlike other clubs that have been called to court, it could be suggested it's the football department that are running up the losses.

    A point of order :-) Hibs Lotto is advertised as profits going directly to the managers fund, insert name of manager.
    Space to let

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    I don't understand why shares are given away, I really don't.

    The only reason I'd do it is if I had a windfall, purchased piles of them, and then decided to give them to a supporter's trust that had the best interests of the club at heart. I'm not sure HSL is that "trust". My problem is, and shall ever be, club directors on the HSL board. I just don't get how that can be considered appropriate but fair play to the likes of @beefy who can view the subject so pragmatically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    I don't understand why shares are given away, I really don't.

    The only reason I'd do it is if I had a windfall, purchased piles of them, and then decided to give them to a supporter's trust that had the best interests of the club at heart. I'm not sure HSL is that "trust". My problem is, and shall ever be, club directors on the HSL board. I just don't get how that can be considered appropriate but fair play to the likes of @beefy who can view the subject so pragmatically.
    I don't particularly get the issue with any Hibs director on the HSL board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    I don't particularly get the issue with any Hibs director on the HSL board?
    It’s not fan driven if it’s got hibs hired hands as directors. I’d go as far as to say it’s a conflict of interest.

    Aside from that; the hibs board has made its stance clear in some subjects where it’s clearly at odds with the fans. That’s awkward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    It’s not fan driven if it’s got hibs hired hands as directors. I’d go as far as to say it’s a conflict of interest.

    Aside from that; the hibs board has made its stance clear in some subjects where it’s clearly at odds with the fans. That’s awkward.
    But surely if it's only one director on the board I don't see the issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    But surely if it's only one director on the board I don't see the issue?
    I think there's two. You can't say it's a fans initiative with two hibs board directors on it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    It’s not fan driven if it’s got hibs hired hands as directors. I’d go as far as to say it’s a conflict of interest.Aside from that; the hibs board has made its stance clear in some subjects where it’s clearly at odds with the fans. That’s awkward.
    Yip. Dempster was conflicted on HSL loyalty points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    I don't particularly get the issue with any Hibs director on the HSL board?
    @Purple & Green largely covered it, bud.

    For me, it's a conflict of interests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I agree with that beefy. Not sure about any benefits from this man giving his shares to HSL though, except a cheeky wee photo with a proclaimer? No financial benefit to HSL, the same % of shares in fan ownership stays the same, just this guy giving away his shares, for no apparent reason?

    Am I missing something?
    Southfieldhibby

    We have been asked this question before so please allow us to remind everyone :


    "We are often asked by both existing Members and prospective Members what is the best way to invest in Hibs – buy shares directly or through HSL ?

    Well the first and most obvious thing to say is not to consider any contribution as an “investment” in the normal sense of the word. This is essentially a donation to provide additional financial support to your Club. Having said this, we make no apology for pointing any supporter with a spare £225 firmly in the direction of HSL, and here is why :


    1. Proof of Ownership

    In both cases, supporters will be given a Certificate with their own name on it. A Share Certificate and a Membership Certificate are legal equivalents. When joining HSL with £225 a member will own a part of their Club in the same sense as a fellow supporter acquiring £225 worth of shares. An HSL Member is not in any sense an inferior owner. They have slightly different ownership rights but they are both owners. And in both cases supporters can pass on their part ownership of the Club to their family. HSL Members proudly display their Ownership Certificate on their walls at home or office or work place.


    1. Voting Rights/Democracy

    For many supporters, one of the reasons for becoming financially involved with their Club is to have some sort of say or influence in how their Club is run. A fundamental principle of HSL is our belief that every single supporter should have an equal voice. No matter who you are, your opinion is just as important as any other supporter. This means that when we have matters that we are required to vote upon each member has one vote. One member who has contributed £1000 cannot overrule the votes of four other members who have each contributed £225.
    This was the very principles on which our great Club was established. More able members of the Community were able to assist those who were less able. Supporters buying shares however must be aware that one individual wealthy supporter who has many more shares can overrule the will of hundreds of other supporters, especially those who have bought the minimum of £200.


    1. Supporter Representation

    Apart from those occasions that require formal voting, the ongoing running of the Club falls to the Board of Directors. HSL has an exclusive formal agreement with the Club that entitles HSL to appoint a Director to the Board on a permanent basis once our shareholding and donations have reached a certain level. This means that there is a formal process for introducing the views of many ordinary Hibs fans. Supporters buying individual shares do not have this legal entitlement.





    1. Accessible to All

    The reality of a Football Club operating in the environment that we do is that we all have a responsibility for our Club. We cannot for ever look towards an individual to financially support our Club. HSL gives a realistic prospect to all fans to share this responsibility by offering the facility to pay a small amount each month. Not many supporters actually have a spare £200 which means that direct Shareholding is limited to the more affluent supporters. HSL gives all supporters the chance to own part of their Club and as stated earlier, owning it on an equal basis with our fellow supporters.


    1. Loss of Voting Rights

    One of the principle benefits of HSL is the certainty that none of our voting rights will ever be wasted. Whatever ownership stake we end up with 10%, 25% or 35% our entire voting block will always be exercised. This means that if we owned 26% of our Club and a contentious issue arose, even if only 1800 Members out of a 2000 Membership voted, our 26% voting rights would still be exercised. For those supporters owning, in the same example, the remaining 25% of the Club it is very unlikely that every single shareholder will cast a vote ( many have died, or have been passed on to those who don’t have an interest).


    These are all the reasons why it feels great to be a part of HSL and an owner of our Club."

    Apart from all of the above Mr Robertson just wanted to see HSL do well.


    HSL

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    @OfficialHSL have been waiting a long time for my certificate, not had any response to emails
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    SouthfieldhibbyWe have been asked this question before so please allow us to remind everyone :"We are often asked by both existing Members and prospective Members what is the best way to invest in Hibs – buy shares directly or through HSL ? Well the first and most obvious thing to say is not to consider any contribution as an “investment” in the normal sense of the word. This is essentially a donation to provide additional financial support to your Club. Having said this, we make no apology for pointing any supporter with a spare £225 firmly in the direction of HSL, and here is why :
    1. Proof of Ownership

    In both cases, supporters will be given a Certificate with their own name on it. A Share Certificate and a Membership Certificate are legal equivalents. When joining HSL with £225 a member will own a part of their Club in the same sense as a fellow supporter acquiring £225 worth of shares. An HSL Member is not in any sense an inferior owner. They have slightly different ownership rights but they are both owners. And in both cases supporters can pass on their part ownership of the Club to their family. HSL Members proudly display their Ownership Certificate on their walls at home or office or work place.
    1. Voting Rights/Democracy

    For many supporters, one of the reasons for becoming financially involved with their Club is to have some sort of say or influence in how their Club is run. A fundamental principle of HSL is our belief that every single supporter should have an equal voice. No matter who you are, your opinion is just as important as any other supporter. This means that when we have matters that we are required to vote upon each member has one vote. One member who has contributed £1000 cannot overrule the votes of four other members who have each contributed £225.This was the very principles on which our great Club was established. More able members of the Community were able to assist those who were less able. Supporters buying shares however must be aware that one individual wealthy supporter who has many more shares can overrule the will of hundreds of other supporters, especially those who have bought the minimum of £200.
    1. Supporter Representation

    Apart from those occasions that require formal voting, the ongoing running of the Club falls to the Board of Directors. HSL has an exclusive formal agreement with the Club that entitles HSL to appoint a Director to the Board on a permanent basis once our shareholding and donations have reached a certain level. This means that there is a formal process for introducing the views of many ordinary Hibs fans. Supporters buying individual shares do not have this legal entitlement.
    1. Accessible to All

    The reality of a Football Club operating in the environment that we do is that we all have a responsibility for our Club. We cannot for ever look towards an individual to financially support our Club. HSL gives a realistic prospect to all fans to share this responsibility by offering the facility to pay a small amount each month. Not many supporters actually have a spare £200 which means that direct Shareholding is limited to the more affluent supporters. HSL gives all supporters the chance to own part of their Club and as stated earlier, owning it on an equal basis with our fellow supporters.
    1. Loss of Voting Rights

    One of the principle benefits of HSL is the certainty that none of our voting rights will ever be wasted. Whatever ownership stake we end up with 10%, 25% or 35% our entire voting block will always be exercised. This means that if we owned 26% of our Club and a contentious issue arose, even if only 1800 Members out of a 2000 Membership voted, our 26% voting rights would still be exercised. For those supporters owning, in the same example, the remaining 25% of the Club it is very unlikely that every single shareholder will cast a vote ( many have died, or have been passed on to those who don’t have an interest). These are all the reasons why it feels great to be a part of HSL and an owner of our Club."Apart from all of the above Mr Robertson just wanted to see HSL do well.HSL
    A member of HSL is not an owner of Hibs. Lawyer supporting hibs fans confirmed this to me. The are owners of a vehicle which buys shares in Hibs. Individual shareholders are owners of Hibs. Interestingly you bring up legal right to get a seat on hibs board. But on hibs net you are backing away from that aim. As I said earlier on this thread we have two fans reps that haven't delivered. We don't need a third. This is based on the poor performance of HSL directors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    A member of HSL is not an owner of Hibs. Lawyer supporting hibs fans confirmed this to me. The are owners of a vehicle which buys shares in Hibs. Individual shareholders are owners of Hibs. Interestingly you bring up legal right to get a seat on hibs board. But on hibs net you are backing away from that aim. As I said earlier on this thread we have two fans reps that haven't delivered. We don't need a third. This is based on the poor performance of HSL directors
    Greenpower

    Who is the current principal owner of Hibs ?

    HSL

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    It’s not fan driven if it’s got hibs hired hands as directors. I’d go as far as to say it’s a conflict of interest.

    Aside from that; the hibs board has made its stance clear in some subjects where it’s clearly at odds with the fans. That’s awkward.
    Purple & Green

    Without wishing to be contentious can you confirm which HSL Directors you regard as hired hands ?

    We are trying our best to clear up all the myths about HSL without disrespecting our fellow supporters right to just have a different opinion on something.

    HSL

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    @Purple & Green largely covered it, bud.

    For me, it's a conflict of interests.
    Zellviren

    Where specifically to you see a conflict of interest ?

    HSL

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    Are you just one person replying? Or does anyone decide how to reply?

    I feel like your just not helping get across whatever your trying to say. Alot of questions, no real answers.
    Above someone posted that their lawyer friends confirmed something and you just replied with a question.

    You're one opinion trying to represent something that's a group.
    Illegitimi non carborundum.

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    Specifically Leeann is employed by the football club.

    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    Greenpower

    Who is the current principal owner of Hibs ?

    HSL

    - - - Updated - - -



    Purple & Green

    Without wishing to be contentious can you confirm which HSL Directors you regard as hired hands ?

    We are trying our best to clear up all the myths about HSL without disrespecting our fellow supporters right to just have a different opinion on something.

    HSL

    - - - Updated - - -



    Zellviren

    Where specifically to you see a conflict of interest ?

    HSL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammi View Post
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    Are you just one person replying? Or does anyone decide how to reply?

    I feel like your just not helping get across whatever your trying to say. Alot of questions, no real answers.
    Above someone posted that their lawyer friends confirmed something and you just replied with a question.

    You're one opinion trying to represent something that's a group.
    Hammi

    Thank you for your post and observations.

    I am one of the Directors of HSL but we all take a turn at responding on Fans Forums. At all times we try to keep our comments factual and courteous and of course we try our best to avoid conflict with our fellow supporters.

    It is only in my last post that I posed three questions and the reason for this is quite simple, I was trying to clarify and understand the point that was being raised. It is only with this clarity can we give a meaningful response. Ask any question and we are happy to respond. We do also want to make sure that our own Members get clarity on points that others raise. Please don't think we are trying to be unhelpful, on the contrary.

    HSL

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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    GreenpowerWho is the current principal owner of Hibs ?HSL- - - Updated - - -Purple & GreenWithout wishing to be contentious can you confirm which HSL Directors you regard as hired hands ?We are trying our best to clear up all the myths about HSL without disrespecting our fellow supporters right to just have a different opinion on something.HSL- - - Updated - - -ZellvirenWhere specifically to you see a conflict of interest ?HSL
    Hibernian Holdings Ltd. I can only understand there is something like 16 layers before you get back to the family trust.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    Specifically Leeann is employed by the football club.
    Purple and Green

    Thank you for responding. Can I repeat the point I made to Hammi. We are not trying to be disrespectful by posing the question, I genuinely wasn't sure who you were meaning or what the conflict was.

    Yes, Leeann is a paid employee of Hibernian Football Club and she is paid to do the very best she can for Hibernian Football Club. I suspect most supporters would think she is doing just that.

    Leeann is also a Director of Hibernian Football Club as well as being a Director of HSL.

    HSL has 7 Directors of which 2 are appointed by Hibernian Football Club ( Leeann and Stephen Dunn ).

    The other 5 Directors are appointed by the Members of HSL ( or are just about to be ).

    The arithmetic dictates that the 5 Member appointed Directors would always be able to out vote the 2 Club appointed Directors should that ever be required. What I am trying to say is that Leeann's presence poses no problems at all for HSL. There is no conflict within HSL.

    Theoretically you may be suggesting that Leeann may be conflicted in her role as a Director of the Board of Hibernian Football Club. In other words she may be in a position that the Hibernian Board do not share a particular view that is collectively held by the HSL Board. That would be for Leeann and/or Stephen to deal with. It is not an issue for us.

    I should add that it is unlikely to happen given that we are all trying to do our very best for Hibs.

    I hope this helps.

    HSL

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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    Purple and GreenThank you for responding. Can I repeat the point I made to Hammi. We are not trying to be disrespectful by posing the question, I genuinely wasn't sure who you were meaning or what the conflict was.Yes, Leeann is a paid employee of Hibernian Football Club and she is paid to do the very best she can for Hibernian Football Club. I suspect most supporters would think she is doing just that.Leeann is also a Director of Hibernian Football Club as well as being a Director of HSL.HSL has 7 Directors of which 2 are appointed by Hibernian Football Club ( Leeann and Stephen Dunn ).The other 5 Directors are appointed by the Members of HSL ( or are just about to be ).The arithmetic dictates that the 5 Member appointed Directors would always be able to out vote the 2 Club appointed Directors should that ever be required. What I am trying to say is that Leeann's presence poses no problems at all for HSL. There is no conflict within HSL.Theoretically you may be suggesting that Leeann may be conflicted in her role as a Director of the Board of Hibernian Football Club. In other words she may be in a position that the Hibernian Board do not share a particular view that is collectively held by the HSL Board. That would be for Leeann and/or Stephen to deal with. It is not an issue for us.I should add that it is unlikely to happen given that we are all trying to do our very best for Hibs.I hope this helps.HSL
    How can it be badged as a fans initiative? I understand hibs approached mckaskillti be chair. Do you see him as a decisive figure? I'd be delighted if HSL pumps stacks of cash into hibs. But I feel there are basic fundematal issues that need fixed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    Purple and GreenThank you for responding. Can I repeat the point I made to Hammi. We are not trying to be disrespectful by posing the question, I genuinely wasn't sure who you were meaning or what the conflict was.Yes, Leeann is a paid employee of Hibernian Football Club and she is paid to do the very best she can for Hibernian Football Club. I suspect most supporters would think she is doing just that.Leeann is also a Director of Hibernian Football Club as well as being a Director of HSL.HSL has 7 Directors of which 2 are appointed by Hibernian Football Club ( Leeann and Stephen Dunn ).The other 5 Directors are appointed by the Members of HSL ( or are just about to be ).The arithmetic dictates that the 5 Member appointed Directors would always be able to out vote the 2 Club appointed Directors should that ever be required. What I am trying to say is that Leeann's presence poses no problems at all for HSL. There is no conflict within HSL.Theoretically you may be suggesting that Leeann may be conflicted in her role as a Director of the Board of Hibernian Football Club. In other words she may be in a position that the Hibernian Board do not share a particular view that is collectively held by the HSL Board. That would be for Leeann and/or Stephen to deal with. It is not an issue for us.I should add that it is unlikely to happen given that we are all trying to do our very best for Hibs.I hope this helps.HSL
    Dempster as HSL director wants loyalty points to try get fans to sign up to HSL members. Takes of her HSL hat and puts her Hibs Chief exec hat. She can't say no. Conflicted. End result a major driver in loyalty points being scrapped. Pi**ed off hibs fans and less HSL members

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Hibernian Holdings Ltd. I can only understand there is something like 16 layers before you get back to the family trust.
    Greenpower
    Thank you for responding.

    Your right, HFC Holdings is the principal shareholder of Hibernian Football Club Ltd. HFC Holdings is 90% owned by Sir Tom Farmer and 10% Rod Petrie.

    This does not stop everyone from recognising that Hibs are owned by Sir Tom and Rod. It is not at all uncommon for ownership to be held like this.

    There is however a significant difference. Our Members own HSL and HSL now owns almost 14 % of Hibs. What should be noted is that unlike other similar situations HSL can't own anything else. It exclusive ownership of Hibs. Many of our Members do not want to hold their ownership stake through the Shareholder method as they like the fact that all of our Members are equal. They like the collective strength. Wealthy contributors have the same voice as someone who can only manage £5 per month.

    I am simply trying to highlight that many people do not feel it is an inferior method of owning Hibs, it is simply their method of choice.

    Likewise, we fully recognise that others may prefer the Shareholding method.

    I hope this helps.



    HSL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    How can it be badged as a fans initiative? I understand hibs approached mckaskillti be chair. Do you see him as a decisive figure? I'd be delighted if HSL pumps stacks of cash into hibs. But I feel there are basic fundematal issues that need fixed.

    Greenpower

    We don't know how else it can be described. Our 1700 members are just ordinary Hibs fans just like you and I. Office workers, manual workers, self employed, part time, full time, men and women. Every one with the same voice, no matter how much they donate.

    I can confirm categorically that Hibs did not approach Kenny MacAskill, they had no involvement in it at all. I can say this because it was myself and Charlie Reid who asked him for help. These are some of the myths we are trying to dispel.

    We approached Kenny as we saw him as a descent man with integrity. Our three years of working with him have simply confirmed that. The amount of his time and effort given to the Hibs cause, free of charge, has been incredible. You personally may have reasons for not liking Kenny or any of us but I would simply ask you to keep in mind our intentions, to try and help our Club as best we can.

    Please help us by suggesting what things we can fix. Goodness know we are far from being perfect, but I can assure you we all have Hibs best intentions at heart.

    HSL







    - - - Updated - - -

    Dempster as HSL director wants loyalty points to try get fans to sign up to HSL members. Takes of her HSL hat and puts her Hibs Chief exec hat. She can't say no. Conflicted. End result a major driver in loyalty points being scrapped. Pi**ed off hibs fans and less HSL members
    Again can we dispel another myth. Leeann did not ask for Loyalty points to be given to HSL. We have on many occasions made it clear that we, HSL, approached Leeann seeking loyalty points. We sought these on the basis of a small simple one off "thank you" gesture to our Members and, yes indeed to encourage others to join. On the second point is was very successful and many new Members joined and have remained on board. On the first point we got this wrong. We had no intention of disrupting the system but some people saw it otherwise. My understanding of why it was cancelled was more do do with Season Tickets than HSL.

    Sometimes when trying to improve things even well intended people can get things wrong.

    HSL

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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    GreenpowerThank you for responding.Your right, HFC Holdings is the principal shareholder of Hibernian Football Club Ltd. HFC Holdings is 90% owned by Sir Tom Farmer and 10% Rod Petrie.This does not stop everyone from recognising that Hibs are owned by Sir Tom and Rod. It is not at all uncommon for ownership to be held like this.There is however a significant difference. Our Members own HSL and HSL now owns almost 14 % of Hibs. What should be noted is that unlike other similar situations HSL can't own anything else. It exclusive ownership of Hibs. Many of our Members do not want to hold their ownership stake through the Shareholder method as they like the fact that all of our Members are equal. They like the collective strength. Wealthy contributors have the same voice as someone who can only manage £5 per month.I am simply trying to highlight that many people do not feel it is an inferior method of owning Hibs, it is simply their method of choice.Likewise, we fully recognise that others may prefer the Shareholding method.I hope this helps.HSL
    My point was in relation to your statement around HSL members not being inferior to individual shareholders. Legally they are. They have no standing and can't attend hibs AGM. Petrie and Farmer can't both attend. Admins not sure if this allowed but I have lifted this from .net. It is directly related to the points being debated on here tonight: I'm a member of HSL and would encourage others to join for most of the reasons stated.However the part you've quoted is poorly worded as it implies that my HSL membership is the equivalent of my own shareholding when it isn't.HSL enables me to part of a much bigger shareholding but I have no real say in how that shareholding votes because I am only one small voice amongst hundreds. It doesn't make me an owner of any part of Hibs but it does make me part of a supporter's collective providing funds to the club which is exactly what I signed up for.My own shareholding may be only one small voice amongst hundreds but crucially it is still my own voice and a direct holding in the club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    My point was in relation to your statement around HSL members not being inferior to individual shareholders. Legally they are. They have no standing and can't attend hibs AGM. Petrie and Farmer can't both attend. Admins not sure if this allowed but I have lifted this from .net. It is directly related to the points being debated on here tonight: I'm a member of HSL and would encourage others to join for most of the reasons stated.However the part you've quoted is poorly worded as it implies that my HSL membership is the equivalent of my own shareholding when it isn't.HSL enables me to part of a much bigger shareholding but I have no real say in how that shareholding votes because I am only one small voice amongst hundreds. It doesn't make me an owner of any part of Hibs but it does make me part of a supporter's collective providing funds to the club which is exactly what I signed up for.My own shareholding may be only one small voice amongst hundreds but crucially it is still my own voice and a direct holding in the club.
    Greenpower

    We are not at all trying to mislead. The original note that we posted stated that a Shareholding Certificate was the equivalent of a Membership Certificate. A Shareholding Certificate is the proof of ownership in a Company Limited by Capital. A Membership Certificate is the proof of ownership for a Company Limited by Guarantee. Both are legal documents. We are not at all suggesting that they are identical. We are trying to highlight that a Membership Certificate in HSL is a very real thing. Our Members have a very real say in how our Shareholding votes in fact they are the only ones who have a say. The great news however is that they all have an equal say. No one Members voice is any greater than anothers. In a Company Limited by Capital those with the greatest number of shares have the greater say.

    It is simply a question of choice. I would not be a Director of HSL if I did not believe in the HSL method i.e. one person one vote

    HSL

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    Greenpower

    We are not at all trying to mislead. The original note that we posted stated that a Shareholding Certificate was the equivalent of a Membership Certificate. A Shareholding Certificate is the proof of ownership in a Company Limited by Capital. A Membership Certificate is the proof of ownership for a Company Limited by Guarantee. Both are legal documents. We are not at all suggesting that they are identical. We are trying to highlight that a Membership Certificate in HSL is a very real thing. Our Members have a very real say in how our Shareholding votes in fact they are the only ones who have a say. The great news however is that they all have an equal say. No one Members voice is any greater than anothers. In a Company Limited by Capital those with the greatest number of shares have the greater say.

    It is simply a question of choice. I would not be a Director of HSL if I did not believe in the HSL method i.e. one person one vote

    HSL
    I think the point @Greenpower is making is that if I buy £200 of shares in Hibs directly then I own a share in Hibs. If I buy via HSL they [HSL] own the shares in Hibs and I own a share/membership in HSL. These are two completely different things assuming I've read the situation correctly.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    Where specifically [d]o you see a conflict of interest?
    Specifically, the appointment of a Hibernian official (the one we know of officially, the current CEO) onto the board of HSL.

    You simply cannot claim to be independent when, in fact, the HSL board and HFC board are interconnected. Ms. Dempster will always be commenting, and "voting", from two different starting points.

    It's not the right thing to do at the most fundamental level.

  49. #49
    Quite a bit past it radge






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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Specifically, the appointment of a Hibernian official (the one we know of officially, the current CEO) onto the board of HSL.

    You simply cannot claim to be independent when, in fact, the HSL board and HFC board are interconnected. Ms. Dempster will always be commenting, and "voting", from two different starting points.

    It's not the right thing to do at the most fundamental level.
    There are many situations where such an arrangement is commonplace – quite often subsidiary companies operate in this way, with ‘independence agreements’ setting out roles and responsibilities and how directors of both are legally and duty bound to act. It’s not that much of a problem when both independent organisations have pretty much the same beliefs and outcomes.
    Presumably HSL feel that as their primary (sole?) goal is to gather up cash from fans and exchange it for shares, then how could there be any conflict?

    What that perspective doesn’t take into account is the bigger picture, particularly the (sigh) fans representative in due course……….

    Personally I don’t really see why Leeann should be on HSL Board, and it would make a lot of sense if there was no ‘connection’ between the two Boards. However, getting a HSL Board that would have 100% trust of the Hibs Family would be a big challenge in any event.

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    The whole thing seems to get over complicated with accusations of all sorts of political shenanigans being alleged. At this precise point in time it's really very simple - you chuck some money away, HSL catch it and give it to Hibs. They then spend it to put a product on the park.

    OK if people aren't keen on the decision making powers of Hibs on HSL board / HSL on Hibs board we can cross that bridge when we come to it (when HSL have a stake that actually provides influence in the club). But right now hearts fans are putting around £1m a year more into their club via their equivalent scheme than we are. That doesn't matter while that money is going to pay for their $#@!ey stand or share certificates but eventually that'll be cash they can spend on players.

    I'd rather we weren't still gazing at our navels by then

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