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Thread: Another Dominated Game We Don't Win

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    Another Dominated Game We Don't Win

    Two points dropped after yet another game we've dominated.

    The priority in the transfer window has got to be finding a way of getting more goals.

    Hugely frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Two points dropped after yet another game we've dominated.

    The priority in the transfer window has got to be finding a way of getting more goals.

    Hugely frustrating.
    Transfer window is one thing.
    Managing the team correctly is another.

    We need improvements on both fronts. Various managers have consistently failed to get us goals from midfield. We've always lacked numbers in the box. Our set piece delivery and conversion is more often than not abysmal.

    New players won't solve all that.

    Stokes is a huge issue. Do we shoehorn him into the team in the hope that he will do something special as he "has that in his locker"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EA2007 View Post
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    Transfer window is one thing.Managing the team correctly is another.We need improvements on both fronts. Various managers have consistently failed to get us goals from midfield. We've always lacked numbers in the box. Our set piece delivery and conversion is more often than not abysmal.New players won't solve all that.Stokes is a huge issue. Do we shoehorn him into the team in the hope that he will do something special as he "has that in his locker"?
    Agree with that. Lenny carrying on from Stubbs. Tippy tappy. We are vastly overrated team. I'm pissed off.

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    Anyone want to list all the passes McGeough, McGinn or Stokes made to a player in the box? I cant remember any. McGeough had the ball outside the box time and time again and every time it was passed back out to the wings. Its boring, predictable and there is no connect between the midfield and players in the box. Everything goes wide. Lennon's tactics need questioned. This diamond or whatever it is in front of McGinn & McGeough just doesnt work. Sign all the forwards in the world but if they cant get service in the box how are they going to score. We are predictable as $#@! with no goal threat coming from centre of midfield. Makes it easy for defences to sit in and watch us push ball wide all the time. Drives me nuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Sleeves View Post
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    Anyone want to list all the passes McGeough, McGinn or Stokes made to a player in the box? I cant remember any. McGeough had the ball outside the box time and time again and every time it was passed back out to the wings. Its boring, predictable and there is no connect between the midfield and players in the box. Everything goes wide. Lennon's tactics need questioned. This diamond or whatever it is in front of McGinn & McGeough just doesnt work. Sign all the forwards in the world but if they cant get service in the box how are they going to score. We are predictable as $#@! with no goal threat coming from centre of midfield. Makes it easy for defences to sit in and watch us push ball wide all the time. Drives me nuts.
    Players are in good positions but take no responsibilities. Lay it off instead. Never see overlaps. It's not formations. One counter attack which was rapid. Swanson should have scored. Lewis ran from his own box and overtook his midfield and have Danny an option. Our midfield want to retain possession and look pretty but won't make these lung busting runs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Sleeves View Post
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    Anyone want to list all the passes McGeough, McGinn or Stokes made to a player in the box? I cant remember any. McGeough had the ball outside the box time and time again and every time it was passed back out to the wings. Its boring, predictable and there is no connect between the midfield and players in the box. Everything goes wide. Lennon's tactics need questioned. This diamond or whatever it is in front of McGinn & McGeough just doesnt work. Sign all the forwards in the world but if they cant get service in the box how are they going to score. We are predictable as $#@! with no goal threat coming from centre of midfield. Makes it easy for defences to sit in and watch us push ball wide all the time. Drives me nuts.
    Said exactly this at game today. Mega frustrating and easy for teams to just sit in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Sleeves View Post
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    Makes it easy for defences to sit in and watch us push ball wide all the time. Drives me nuts.
    Sure, but then decent delivery from wide areas into strikers that thrive on that type of service will get goals. Too often our delivery is very poor, and we've not got the personnel in the box to convert the decent service that does arrive.

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    In Barker and Boyle we have two players with the ability and pace to get to the byline.
    The ball should be getting fired into the box from them.
    And at least a couple of midfielders should be busting a gut to get in there.

    Otherwise, there's no point in playing with wingers.
    Ever play this game chief?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Sure, but then decent delivery from wide areas into strikers that thrive on that type of service will get goals. Too often our delivery is very poor, and we've not got the personnel in the box to convert the decent service that does arrive.
    Majority of the time we have one guy in the box

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    Lewis stuck a couple of good balls in today,as did Boyle and thank $#@! they've stopped this short corner $#@!e, we deserved tae score a few more from them today.


    Think I might nip over to Gorgie Farm and count some Chickens before they've hatched

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    One minute in, and we need 2 to win. We concede too many - and don’t have enough clean sheets at home.

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    1 clean sheet in 11 at home, we’re needing to score just to draw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Sure, but then decent delivery from wide areas into strikers that thrive on that type of service will get goals. Too often our delivery is very poor, and we've not got the personnel in the box to convert the decent service that does arrive.
    Do we have those strikers though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by West Indies View Post
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    Do we have those strikers though.
    That's sort of my point; the answer is no.

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    Its chronic watching all the attacking play and no one taking the responsibility and getting a shot off.

    Is that just two wins at home since beating Thistle on the first day of the season?

    EDIT : Hearts, Dundee and last weeks win v Ross County. Easy to see why teams we should be beating are leaving with at least a point most games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fieryjack View Post
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    Its chronic watching all the attacking play and no one taking the responsibility and getting a shot off.

    Is that just two wins at home since beating Thistle on the first day of the season?

    EDIT : Hearts, Dundee and last weeks win v Ross County. Easy to see why teams we should be beating are leaving with at least a point most games.
    It's been much better away from home all season. Folk who can't get to or don't opt to go to away games are not getting the full picture and are in mamy ways being short changed.

    That said, the blame lies with a league system and mentality that has the likes of Potter aspiring to celebrating consecutive 0-0s, as teams try not to lose, first and foremost. No matter how it is achieved.

    The game, as a product, is goosed until we change that attitude.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    It's been much better away from home all season. Folk who can't get to or don't opt to go to away games are not getting the full picture and are in mamy ways being short changed.That said, the blame lies with a league system and mentality that has the likes of Potter aspiring to celebrating consecutive 0-0s, as teams try not to lose, first and foremost. No matter how it is achieved. The game, as a product, is goosed until we change that attitude.
    We haven't hammered any team away from home. Decent performances. It's not the league structures fault we don't have midfielders that don't shoot much or score goals. Or balls into the box are poor. Or we don't have runners from midfield. Squad is unbalanced and that's Lenny fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    We haven't hammered any team away from home. Decent performances. It's not the league structures fault we don't have midfielders that don't shoot much or score goals. Or balls into the box are poor. Or we don't have runners from midfield. Squad is unbalanced and that's Lenny fault.
    It's a league structure where managers are content to pack defences, not chase wins, stop other teams playing just to survive. Survive at all costs. There is no doubt it affects the product. It affects the marketability of our game.

    The squad isn't perfect but it's a work in progress. Hopefully we can attract better players as we consolidate being back in the top flight. But it's a fragile ecosystem, Scottish football. A very fragile one where survival at all costs is affecting the product - whether that be keech astroturfs now the playing surface at top league clubs or teams putting 10 men behind the ball and kicking anything that moves.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    It's been much better away from home all season. Folk who can't get to or don't opt to go to away games are not getting the full picture and are in mamy ways being short changed.

    That said, the blame lies with a league system and mentality that has the likes of Potter aspiring to celebrating consecutive 0-0s, as teams try not to lose, first and foremost. No matter how it is achieved.

    The game, as a product, is goosed until we change that attitude.
    3 points for a win was supposed to address that, J. Glass half full managers in the mould of Potter et al still take the view that 1 point is better than none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oo2beahibby View Post
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    3 points for a win was supposed to address that, J. Glass half full managers in the mould of Potter et al still take the view that 1 point is better than none.
    It was and for the super rich, like Celtc, it has served them well. The gap has been accentuated and they have the money and CL football lure to still be able to attract better players. It wasn't that long ago the world's most expensive ever defender was at Darkheid.

    Lenny was on telly this week in a preview of the OF game and he was asked if the Celtc Invincibles team would compete with Martin ONeills team. His response was "not even close". Just that the opposition were all far poorer just now and we needed to somehow find a way of enticing better players and better play to our league.

    Potter's side are reminiscent of the turgid industrial $#@!e served up by Alex MacDonald sides in the 80s and 90s.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    It was and for the super rich, like Celtc, it has served them well. The gap has been accentuated and they have the money and CL football lure to still be able to attract better players. It wasn't that long ago the world's most expensive ever defender was at Darkheid.

    Lenny was on telly this week in a preview of the OF game and he was asked if the Celtc Invincibles team would compete with Martin ONeills team. His response was "not even close". Just that the opposition were all far poorer just now and we needed to somehow find a way of enticing better players and better play to our league.

    Potter's side are reminiscent of the turgid industrial $#@!e served up by Alex MacDonald sides in the 80s and 90s.
    Can't disagree with any of that, although I think debates over who is the best team, whilst great with pint in hand (other alcoholic drinks are available), are just that - debates. We'll never know.

    You do make a very valid point earlier about the marketability of the Scottish game. The don't lose at any costs mentality has made feigning injury, simulation, time-wasting and plenty other forms of rule-bending almost the norm in Scottish football, more so than any other top national league I know of. That, and a chronic failure to change the governance structure, suggests a long spell in the elite doldrums for our once beautiful game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oo2beahibby View Post
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    Can't disagree with any of that, although I think debates over who is the best team, whilst great with pint in hand (other alcoholic drinks are available), are just that - debates. We'll never know.
    .
    Oh, I know, G. It was more the reflection of our manager that the quality of the league is diminished. We'd be hard pushed to disagree. With that comes the very style of play promoted by such as Potter and all other students of Airdire circa 1990.

    We might be guilty of being naive. In some cases I think we have. However, we've the double edged sword that our fans just wouldn't tolerate the stuff other fans of other clubs celebrate. The perfect balance has yet to be found.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Some very good points being made throughout this thread..

    Today was just another example of the weaknesses we have as a team. It was basically Groundhog Day.
    Conceding an early goal which seems to be a regular occurrence in the majority of our home games and has been for the last few seasons.
    This is followed by Hibs completely dominating the opposition and maybe getting an equaliser and maybe even a winner, but because we conceded the first goal we are chasing the game. More often than not desperation sets in and the other team just packs their defence content to watch Hibs playing the ball sideways. We need vast improvement in the last third of the park and we desperately require midfielders who are prepared to gamble and get into the penalty box. Today Oli Shaw ended up playing as a lone striker as Stokes was no help whatsoever. We need to be firing far more shots in at goal and working the opposition goalkeeper more. Lennon has to address this problem once and for all. We simply do not score enough goals.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    Some very good points being made throughout this thread..

    Today was just another example of the weaknesses we have as a team. It was basically Groundhog Day.
    Conceding an early goal which seems to be a regular occurrence in the majority of our home games and has been for the last few seasons.
    This is followed by Hibs completely dominating the opposition and maybe getting an equaliser and maybe even a winner, but because we conceded the first goal we are chasing the game. More often than not desperation sets in and the other team just packs their defence content to watch Hibs playing the ball sideways. We need vast improvement in the last third of the park and we desperately require midfielders who are prepared to gamble and get into the penalty box. Today Oli Shaw ended up playing as a lone striker as Stokes was no help whatsoever. We need to be firing far more shots in at goal and working the opposition goalkeeper more. Lennon has to address this problem once and for all. We simply do not score enough goals.
    If Bartley had been played instead of Stokes then maybe McGinn & McGeough could have been deployed further forward.

    But it sometimes seems the team is played out of balance in strange formations in order to accomodate Stokes.

    He's a legend and always will be but right now he's an underperforming legend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    Some very good points being made throughout this thread..

    Today was just another example of the weaknesses we have as a team. It was basically Groundhog Day.
    Conceding an early goal which seems to be a regular occurrence in the majority of our home games and has been for the last few seasons.
    This is followed by Hibs completely dominating the opposition and maybe getting an equaliser and maybe even a winner, but because we conceded the first goal we are chasing the game. More often than not desperation sets in and the other team just packs their defence content to watch Hibs playing the ball sideways. We need vast improvement in the last third of the park and we desperately require midfielders who are prepared to gamble and get into the penalty box. Today Oli Shaw ended up playing as a lone striker as Stokes was no help whatsoever. We need to be firing far more shots in at goal and working the opposition goalkeeper more. Lennon has to address this problem once and for all. We simply do not score enough goals.
    There was one moment second half when Shaw broke his neck to keep a ball in down the right, cut it back beautifully only for Stokes to be walking 15 yards outside the box. Pathetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    There was one moment second half when Shaw broke his neck to keep a ball in down the right, cut it back beautifully only for Stokes to be walking 15 yards outside the box. Pathetic.
    A glaring example of our problems.

    Loads of folk have a go at our wingers and full backs for crap crosses but if there's normally only 1 or 2 attacking and 6 or more players defending it doesn't take Einstein to work out the probability of us not winning the ball!

    We need to get forward and in about the penalty box in greater numbers.
    Space to let

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    A glaring example of our problems.

    Loads of folk have a go at our wingers and full backs for crap crosses but if there's normally only 1 or 2 attacking and 6 or more players defending it doesn't take Einstein to work out the probability of us not winning the ball!

    We need to get forward and in about the penalty box in greater numbers.

    I've been banging on about this very point for two seasons now.



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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    There was one moment second half when Shaw broke his neck to keep a ball in down the right, cut it back beautifully only for Stokes to be walking 15 yards outside the box. Pathetic.
    Yup, I remember that. Infuriating.


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    I'd like to see Murray and Shaw start up front. Not as technically gifted as Stokes, but more likely to be on the end of things an insert more pace. Think Shaw, Murray and Boyle would cause havoc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
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    Yup, I remember that. Infuriating.


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    I was much more infuriated when Stokes played a wonderball to Swanson, giving us 4 on 3, and Swanson didn't even convert it into a shot on goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
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    Yup, I remember that. Infuriating.


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    I was much more infuriated when Stokes played a wonderball to Swanson, giving us 4 on 3, and Swanson didn't even convert it into a shot on goal.

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    This subject of getting players into the box (and I've just watched Sportscene with Mikey Stewart making exactly the same point about Hibs' inability to do this effectively) reminded me of some words I read in John Robertson's(Forest version) autobiography.

    So many years have passed of course but I'm wondering if the same principles don't still apply in the game today. Robbo mentioned that at half-time during one of his less illustrious early performances under Clough as a central midfield player the Manager said to him ‘When are you going to get forward? Do you think somebody will shoot you if you go into their penalty area?’

    Clough ALWAYS stressed that he wanted his midfield players to get forward into the box WITHOUT the ball which brings up images of the likes of Archie Gemmill, Ian Bowyer, Roy Keane and Steve Hodge dashing through into the box and getting on the end of passes and crosses. You look at old footage of that team (I Believe in Miracles for example) and it was one of their trademarks.

    I really don't think anything has changed in that regard over the years and the lack of that is one of the things Hibs are suffering from. Many of us say that we'd like our midfielders to produce more goals and these are the positions they need to get in to do it. Excellent as our midfield players may be they seldom seem to do this to me.

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