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Thread: Lennon Got That Wrong

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    Lennon Got That Wrong

    Badly wrong for me.

    Laidlaw showed why he’s second choice - regardless of form etc, you should always pick your best goalkeeper for the big games. Laidlaw sold the game at the first two goals.

    Boyle should have stated, width was always our best chance, but we didn’t take it.

    McGeouch was good second half playing in midfield, but he’s never a number 10.

    Stokes can’t play up front on him own.

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    Nah. No disgrace today.

    Agree re: Laidlaw, but he'd earned the gloves, for me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
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    Nah. No disgrace today.

    Agree re: Laidlaw, but he'd earned the gloves, for me.


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    Not saying we were a disgrace, but we let ourselves down.

    No way is Laidlaw the best keeper at the club. As I said, you play your best keeper in big games like semi finals, and his performance today is exactly why.
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    Gonna disagree entirely. I think Laidlaw earned his place. Committed 2 howlers, but also pulled 3 good saves out the bag when we were pressing for an equaliser.

    Thought Mcgeough was put best player, drove the team on.

    If the keeper makes the saves, we go in half time level, introduce Boyle and go on the offensive. Game plan was right imo, but 2 soft goals cost us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cragles View Post
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    Gonna disagree entirely. I think Laidlaw earned his place. Committed 2 howlers, but also pulled 3 good saves out the bag when we were pressing for an equaliser.

    Thought Mcgeough was put best player, drove the team on.

    If the keeper makes the saves, we go in half time level, introduce Boyle and go on the offensive. Game plan was right imo, but 2 soft goals cost us.
    Game plan was wrong as we were 2-0 down at half time. Trying to contain Celtic doesn’t work, having a go as we did second half does.

    He’s doesn’t make the saves though, and we’re two down. He also got away with one where he should have come out to close Dembélé. Made one good save for me.
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    Was coming on to say something similar, don't think we were a disgrace but IMO Lennon got it wrong. I don't thing Stokes doesn't work well as a lone striker, spend too much time on the left or trying to get the ball in centre mid leaving us with no one up top. Barker maybe slept with a footballer once but that's it for me to start him ahead of Boyle is crazy. Laidlaw done orite is what it is but if we started with the formation we finished with I think it would've been a different result. Should've had Murray or if Lennon has faith in shaw on from the start through the middle with stokes out left since as I said spends most his time out there anyway and Boyle on the right.

    thought mcgeouch and Hanlon were class today.

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    I didn't really think that Lennon got it wrong today. I don't think you can legislate for goalkeeping errors such as that with any formation or personnel changes.

    Marciano may be the best goalie at the club or not but he has not shown that in recent times, therefore he loses his place which is how it needs to be.

    Boyle had a real impact when he came on fresh for the second half, for me, it's debatable whether he'd have had a similar impact for the full ninety minutes.

    Shaw was brought on and was in instant success. An effective substitution and easing the young lad into a very exacting situation.

    For Hibs to win that tie they needed to stay in the game and not let a goal in early on and to me that's clearly what Lennon was thinking. Lennon changed things appropriately after conceding a bad second goal at a bad time. We can always debate about this or that person playing but really this game hinged on at least one goalkeeping error and that is impossible to predict.

    I think Neil Lennon did pretty much all he could today to see Hibs get a positive result. Nor was that team performance any kind of disgrace whatsoever - quite the contrary in fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
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    I didn't really think that Lennon got it wrong today. I don't think you can legislate for goalkeeping errors such as that with any formation or personnel changes.

    Marciano may be the best goalie at the club or not but he has not shown that in recent times, therefore he loses his place which is how it needs to be.

    Boyle had a real impact when he came on fresh for the second half, for me, it's debatable whether he'd have had a similar impact for the full ninety minutes.

    Shaw was brought on and was in instant success. An effective substitution and easing the young lad into a very exacting situation.

    For Hibs to win that tie they needed to stay in the game and not let a goal in early on and to me that's clearly what Lennon was thinking. Lennon changed things appropriately after conceding a bad second goal at a bad time. We can always debate about this or that person playing but really this game hinged on at least one goalkeeping error and that is impossible to predict.

    I think Neil Lennon did pretty much all he could today to see Hibs get a positive result. Nor was that team performance any kind of disgrace whatsoever - quite the contrary in fact.
    I don't think 1 up front works with our squad. We've no one from midfield who gets beyond the striker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willief View Post
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    I don't think 1 up front works with our squad. We've no one from midfield who gets beyond the striker.

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    Exactly - we lost today because whenever Celtic attacked they got bodies forward and when we attacked we didn't. Playing Stokes on his own up front does not work. Surely this has been tried enough times to know it has to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willief View Post
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    I don't think 1 up front works with our squad. We've no one from midfield who gets beyond the striker.

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    I think we’re 4-5-1 as our strongest team, myself. But Celtic are a very strong team, and might even have beaten us if everything had gone our way.

    Tell you what though, last few years at Hampden hibs never fail to turn up, the club mentality is different now - but we need to show that on Tuesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
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    I didn't really think that Lennon got it wrong today. I don't think you can legislate for goalkeeping errors such as that with any formation or personnel changes.

    Marciano may be the best goalie at the club or not but he has not shown that in recent times, therefore he loses his place which is how it needs to be.

    Boyle had a real impact when he came on fresh for the second half, for me, it's debatable whether he'd have had a similar impact for the full ninety minutes.

    Shaw was brought on and was in instant success. An effective substitution and easing the young lad into a very exacting situation.

    For Hibs to win that tie they needed to stay in the game and not let a goal in early on and to me that's clearly what Lennon was thinking. Lennon changed things appropriately after conceding a bad second goal at a bad time. We can always debate about this or that person playing but really this game hinged on at least one goalkeeping error and that is impossible to predict.

    I think Neil Lennon did pretty much all he could today to see Hibs get a positive result. Nor was that team performance any kind of disgrace whatsoever - quite the contrary in fact.
    I tend to agree with that.

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    Another sore one today. I'm not sure really sure we could have beaten Celtic today whatever we did but I do think four goals flatters them. We had loads of the ball but that's getting to be a familiar story. I think Lennon did try to contain Celtic with Barts on and one up front but we ended up 2 nil at half time. Barker had some good runs but I don't think he gives us enough. Efe took a sore one hope he's ok. Slivka had a decent chance with a header but it ended up well over the bar. I can't remember the last time we lost 4 goals - that is hurting right now.

    So to answer the question I think it wasn't a mistake to try to contain Celtic for the first half, but it was a mistake to leave Stokesie on his own up front. Could they not have had a lone striker up front e.g Murray with Stokesie playing in an advanced midfield role? It was frustrating that Celtic scored with what seemed like their only two attacks of the first half.

    Laidlaw is being criticised - whether Rocky would have done any better over the whole match I'm not so sure.

    On reflection we didn't disgrace ourselves against a team unbeaten for umpteen times.
    Last edited by jock3; 21-10-17 at 17:26.

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    I don't feel hurt, I feel proud, once we changed our shape we matched the best team in Scotland, and had them worried at 3-2. What we got wrong was trying to contain them first half instead of going at them. Barker lost his man at the first goal, keeper at fault both goals, before you know it they are 2 0 up.

    I think Barker is hopeless, he reminds me of most loanees we have had from the English leagues, they think they are better than they are. Boyler done more in 45 minutes than Barker has done since signing for Hibs. I though Paul Hanlon was magnificent, and Dylan better.

    Lets brush ourselves down and lets go do the Gunts.

    Lets also congratulate the Hibs fans in Hampden, we outsung the 25000+ Thellick fans most of the game.
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    I think we’re 4-5-1 as our strongest team, myself. But Celtic are a very strong team, and might even have beaten us if everything had gone our way.

    Tell you what though, last few years at Hampden hibs never fail to turn up, the club mentality is different now - but we need to show that on Tuesday.
    I just think we look more dangerous with a second striker. I agree that celtic are a strong team and could well have beaten us anyway.

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    Hibs didn't disgrace themselves by any means. I thought Lennon changed it when it needed changed, but just didn't have enough to beat them. When your playing a team that is more or less player for player better than you, it's always going to be hard.

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    I think the idea was to stifle and contain them in the first half then hit them with pace in the second when they were tiring after their midweek humping.

    Alas 2 down at half time and the first part of the plan failed. 2-2 in the second half.
    Space to let

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    Quote Originally Posted by HibeeZab View Post
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    Badly wrong for me.

    Laidlaw showed why he’s second choice - regardless of form etc, you should always pick your best goalkeeper for the big games. Laidlaw sold the game at the first two goals.

    Boyle should have stated, width was always our best chance, but we didn’t take it.

    McGeouch was good second half playing in midfield, but he’s never a number 10.

    Stokes can’t play up front on him own.
    A bit harsh on Laidlaw as he deserved to be playing today, first one I can't see what else he could have done as he got wrong footed, second one was a disaster, but he did make important saves too.

    We sat to deep off them and when they were passing it at the back we should have been pressing them, can't blame NL for that as you could see from the side he was telling our players to press higher up the pitch, HT he didn't mess about and changed it and we caused them problems and got a front foot in the game.

    Silvka is never winger he is s more effective through the middle and Boyle gave us something else when he came on, Silvika should have scored with his header though.

    Stokes is the best in the number 10 role which suited him better when Oli came on, some finish by the wee man tae. Overall we can't give teams like Celtic a two goal lead, FairPlay to NL for changing it and having a real go at them.

    First half I thought we were poor, second half more than matched them McGeough and Hanlon were out standing for us today.

    The game is gone now fully focused on turning over the Huns without the bus fare!!
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    Can't keep saying we played well when we don't win. People been saying this plenty times this season. There comes a time you need to play well and win or you're just not a good team.

    We are below Hearts now. Anything other than a win on Tuesday and questions need asked about Neil Lennon and how he's actually doing. He got it wrong again today.

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    Thought McGeoch was very good, Efe cool as a cucumber and Hanlon done terrific...though I would need to see if any were at fault for the goals. Whittaker actually done well when he came on and was a lovely cameo by Shaw. I am a firm supporter of having players at the posts during corners...do that and we would not have lost the 2nd goal

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    Quote Originally Posted by HibeeZab View Post
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    Badly wrong for me. Laidlaw showed why he’s second choice - regardless of form etc, you should always pick your best goalkeeper for the big games. Laidlaw sold the game at the first two goals. Boyle should have stated, width was always our best chance, but we didn’t take it. McGeouch was good second half playing in midfield, but he’s never a number 10. Stokes can’t play up front on him own.
    Can't agree. Similar tactics at parkhead worked fine. Keeper very poor on second goal and bit dodgy on first. Barker sleeping on third. Agree re Dylan and stokes

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1875 View Post
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    I don't feel hurt, I feel proud, once we changed our shape we matched the best team in Scotland, and had them worried at 3-2. What we got wrong was trying to contain them first half instead of going at them. Barker lost his man at the first goal, keeper at fault both goals, before you know it they are 2 0 up.I think Barker is hopeless, he reminds me of most loanees we have had from the English leagues, they think they are better than they are. Boyler done more in 45 minutes than Barker has done since signing for Hibs. I though Paul Hanlon was magnificent, and Dylan better.Lets brush ourselves down and lets go do the Gunts.Lets also congratulate the Hibs fans in Hampden, we outsung the 25000+ Thellick fans most of the game.
    Agree with this apart from barker. He has talent needs to find way to impose himself more on games. Pace to burn which he showed with that run in first half

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    Lack of ambition did for us today. Not to play 2 up front in a semi final is simply not on! Stokes cannot play as a lone striker. That said I thought we gave them a game 2nd half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Agree with this apart from barker. He has talent needs to find way to impose himself more on games. Pace to burn which he showed with that run in first half
    That he let trickle out of play. I think he is lazy.
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1875 View Post
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    That he let trickle out of play. I think he is lazy.
    Got a push on back he's just run length of the pitch. Yeah does need to up work rate. I think he' and boyler will start against scumbos. Biscuits said on radio they will roast scumbos full backs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Got a push on back he's just run length of the pitch. Yeah does need to up work rate. I think he' and boyler will start against scumbos. Biscuits said on radio they will roast scumbos full backs
    I would prefer Murray myself, Barker disnae do it for me.
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
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    Lack of ambition did for us today. Not to play 2 up front in a semi final is simply not on! Stokes cannot play as a lone striker. That said I thought we gave them a game 2nd half.
    Individual mistakes killed us. Not tactics etc. Modern game nobody plays two centre forwards. We badly need a number nine that can hold up the ball and bring midfield into the game

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    If we didn’t play five in midfield we are much less effective and 3-5-2 isn’t an option as we don’t have the quality wing backs.

    I think if we’d went with four in midfield today to facilitate two forward we would have been over run.

    Opinions eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    If we didn’t play five in midfield we are much less effective and 3-5-2 isn’t an option as we don’t have the quality wing backs. I think if we’d went with four in midfield today to facilitate two forward we would have been over run.Opinions eh?
    Agree. Said earlier individual mistakes killed us. Second goal a killer at stroke of halftime. We were never over run in game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    If we didn’t play five in midfield we are much less effective and 3-5-2 isn’t an option as we don’t have the quality wing backs.

    I think if we’d went with four in midfield today to facilitate two forward we would have been over run.

    Opinions eh?
    I agree. 100%

    Until Daz is fit, this is it.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    If we didn’t play five in midfield we are much less effective and 3-5-2 isn’t an option as we don’t have the quality wing backs.

    I think if we’d went with four in midfield today to facilitate two forward we would have been over run.

    Opinions eh?
    Yep, that's the way I see it as well, B, we can't have it both ways and Celtic are very strong in midfield.

    Although out of vogue, I generally like to see two forwards, not today though, in those circumstances

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    If we are playing one up front which I don't disagree with, it shouldn't be stokes.
    We needed someone to get torn in and that's not his game.
    Good effort from Hibs today but too many mistakes especially at goals 2 and 4.

    Slivka's miss was also crucial. Should have buried that.

    Oh well, bring on the Dundler Mifflin mob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barney View Post
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    If we are playing one up front which I don't disagree with, it shouldn't be stokes.
    We needed someone to get torn in and that's not his game.
    I've got a lot of time for that notion, especially, although not featuring recently, Simon Murray being more suited to that role.

    Can you imagine though the furore and 'Lennon got it wrong's if he left a quality player like Stokes out and we didn't win?

    Sometimes the manager just cannot win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
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    I've got a lot of time for that notion, especially, although not featuring recently, Simon Murray being more suited to that role.

    Can you imagine though the furore and 'Lennon got it wrong's if he left a quality player like Stokes out and we didn't win?

    Sometimes the manager just cannot win.
    But he got it wrong - trying to contain that Celtic team doesn’t work. Exhibit 1 through 59 shows it. When we had a go, they struggled. Laidlaw is a different issue, but for me you play your first choice keeper in big games.
    We wanna be free, we wanna be free to do what we wanna do, and we wanna get loaded, and we wanna have a good time... That's what we're gonna do

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    Celtic are unbeaten domestically for over a season. They’ve conceded twice only five times in that period. Two of those were against us in the last three weeks.

    I suggest that is all the evidence you need that Lennon got it right.

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    Atlanta Hibs Radge


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    And yet we got whipped

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    Quote Originally Posted by barney View Post
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    And yet we got whipped
    Exactly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    Celtic are unbeaten domestically for over a season. They’ve conceded twice only five times in that period. Two of those were against us in the last three weeks.

    I suggest that is all the evidence you need that Lennon got it right.
    Got it right by losing 4-2? Nah. Poor decisions made by the manager.
    We wanna be free, we wanna be free to do what we wanna do, and we wanna get loaded, and we wanna have a good time... That's what we're gonna do

  36. #36
    'Good Evening - We Are The Fall Radge'


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
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    I didn't really think that Lennon got it wrong today. I don't think you can legislate for goalkeeping errors such as that with any formation or personnel changes.

    Marciano may be the best goalie at the club or not but he has not shown that in recent times, therefore he loses his place which is how it needs to be.

    Boyle had a real impact when he came on fresh for the second half, for me, it's debatable whether he'd have had a similar impact for the full ninety minutes.

    Shaw was brought on and was in instant success. An effective substitution and easing the young lad into a very exacting situation.

    For Hibs to win that tie they needed to stay in the game and not let a goal in early on and to me that's clearly what Lennon was thinking. Lennon changed things appropriately after conceding a bad second goal at a bad time. We can always debate about this or that person playing but really this game hinged on at least one goalkeeping error and that is impossible to predict.

    I think Neil Lennon did pretty much all he could today to see Hibs get a positive result. Nor was that team performance any kind of disgrace whatsoever - quite the contrary in fact.
    Pretty much the way I saw it too. It was obvious that NL wanted to keep it tight and and bring on some extra pace for the second half when they would be showing signs of tiredness.

    Losing the second right before half time was criminal and the changes that would have been made in the second half got made at half time instead.
    We matched them for long periods in the second half and had the upper hand at times too - against the best team in the league by far. Who knows what might have happened if we came out just the one down at half time?

    We are heading in the right direction a lot quicker than I anticipated but need to start picking up results / points that our general game play deserves.

    Either that or we will have to listen to the puddledrinkers waffle on about how big they are when they are excelling at hoofball while the by far classier side are below them in the league........... I know, and the media know what they would rather be watching.

    C'mon Hibs - lets put them back down the league, in their box with exactly what we have been showing this season.

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    I remember Petrie getting slaughtered at an agm for saying hibs ambition at the start of every season was to win every game...

    If getting it right is solely judged by the final result then we are going to get it wrong a lot of the time.

    I don’t think you can solely judge on the result, on the performance though, we’ve caused Celtic more problems than any other Scottish side since Brendan Rogers took over.

    Personally, I think it’s extremely harsh to criticise the manage in those circumstances.

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    I don't think there was much wrong with the set-up or the tactics.
    You can't legislate for your goalkeeper throwing two in early doors...there really was no way back after that despite a spirited recovery in the second half. Basic errors cost us yet again.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

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    I think people are being a bit harsh with Barker. He had some neat touches and good runs today but sadly lacking a little in final product and not the best defensively (their goal). Loved seeing him leave burst away from LG on the wing in the first with LG struggling to catch him. He's still a young lad with alot of potential and could still play a good part in our season.

    As for Boyle not starting, Lennon said he had a personal bereavement during the week. Did well when he came on.

  40. #40
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    Slivka was wasted out wide when Boyle or Murray are sitting there. Understand Boyle has personal problems so fair enough but Murray would have been more suited to out wide than Sliv. How he came out second half I don't know but I will say Hibs put in a fighting performance and for that I applaude every one of them. Dylan was outstanding as was Hanlon. Bring on the Hearts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Individual mistakes killed us. Not tactics etc. Modern game nobody plays two centre forwards. We badly need a number nine that can hold up the ball and bring midfield into the game
    Completely agree that nobody plays 2 out and out Forwards anymorebut we need to be putting somebody in the 10 role that can actually cause some problems. Dylan was outstanding today when he was allowed to drop deeper and bring the ball out but he struggles when he's in the finalThird. I would love Swanson to be the answer but so far he has looked average so it's difficult. I would have liked to have seen Fraser Murray get more of a chance as he actually makes forward runs that defences struggle tracking. When we have wingers putting balls into the box having a genuine 10 would make a world of difference as well on the deck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballack View Post
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    Slivka was wasted out wide when Boyle or Murray are sitting there. Understand Boyle has personal problems so fair enough but Murray would have been more suited to out wide than Sliv. How he came out second half I don't know but I will say Hibs put in a fighting performance and for that I applaude every one of them. Dylan was outstanding as was Hanlon. Bring on the Hearts.- - - Updated - - -Completely agree that nobody plays 2 out and out Forwards anymorebut we need to be putting somebody in the 10 role that can actually cause some problems. Dylan was outstanding today when he was allowed to drop deeper and bring the ball out but he struggles when he's in the finalThird. I would love Swanson to be the answer but so far he has looked average so it's difficult. I would have liked to have seen Fraser Murray get more of a chance as he actually makes forward runs that defences struggle tracking. When we have wingers putting balls into the box having a genuine 10 would make a world of difference as well on the deck.
    Agree mate think Danny would be great 10 to link up with stokes both intelligent players.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    Celtic are unbeaten domestically for over a season. They’ve conceded twice only five times in that period. Two of those were against us in the last three weeks.

    I suggest that is all the evidence you need that Lennon got it right.
    Totally agree with this. Poor defending for the first 2, apart from that celtc were barely in our box. Thought we played very well yesterday. We were always going to leave spaces in the 2nd half looking for goals.

  43. #43
    Scottish no british, ya radge


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    Quote Originally Posted by HibeeZab View Post
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    Badly wrong for me.

    Laidlaw showed why he’s second choice - regardless of form etc, you should always pick your best goalkeeper for the big games. Laidlaw sold the game at the first two goals.

    Boyle should have stated, width was always our best chance, but we didn’t take it.

    McGeouch was good second half playing in midfield, but he’s never a number 10.

    Stokes can’t play up front on him own.
    I agree with this. Celtc hate when teams have a go at them and only when we did, did we come in tae the game. Particularly agree about Stokes, playing Stokes up front on his own is almost like playing naebody up front, he always come so deep or is out so wide there's naebody there tae score the goals.

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    Would reverting back to three centre backs be an effective option when we have McGregor and/or Fonts available for selection again? I thought we did relatively well with this system in the past. I think we all agree Stokes as a lone striker doesn't really work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HibeeZab View Post
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    But he got it wrong - trying to contain that Celtic team doesn’t work. Exhibit 1 through 59 shows it. When we had a go, they struggled.
    Do you think Hibs could have maintained that momentum and impetus of the second half throughout the whole ninety minutes? I don't, I think it would be difficult for any team to do that.

    No, the plan was sound, keep it tight for a while and wait for them to tire after their midweek European game, then throw on a couple of attacking players with pace. The only thing that derailed that plan was goalkeeping error(s).

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    Lennon got it right aside from the goalkeeping selection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Lennon got it right aside from the goalkeeping selection.
    A major $#@! up by the manager, international keeper sitting on the bench.
    until the sky turns green

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Lennon got it right aside from the goalkeeping selection.
    Laidlaw deserved his place . Was a good enough to play at parkhead and help us to a point. After yesterday he deserves to be dropped

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    Laidlaw deserved his place . Was a good enough to play at parkhead and help us to a point. After yesterday he deserves to be dropped
    I get that but a manager is paid to make big calls and for yesterday our international goalkeeper should have been recalled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    I get that but a manager is paid to make big calls and for yesterday our international goalkeeper should have been recalled.
    Why? Because you knew laidlaw would muck up? Rocky lost his place because of a few unconvincing performances and then a nightmare against Motherwell. Laidlaw had a couple of top drawer saves at Ross County, which stopped us getting beat, Rocky is not a squad regular for Israel and his last game for them versus Spain he had a mare. Big Dave is an international player who recently played against England . He didn't get stripped because he's been poor in training and rubbish for the 20s on Tuesday there

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