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Thread: Catalonia

  1. #1
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    Catalonia

    Not much in the media about this here, I hear Madrid are trying to put a stop to things, raiding offices and trying to find ballot papers etc, democracy eh.

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    Surprising. ..no medja coverage. ..err no.

    Any unionists care to comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
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    Surprising. ..no medja coverage. ..err no.

    Any unionists care to comment
    British establishment for you eh.

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    Cowshed is withering without egb. As I pointed out earlier in the week we have nobody interested in the challenges education is facing right now. Something devolved and affects us all Not one post on it either.

    Or the London bombings or...
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    As I pointed out earlier in the week we have nobody interested in the challenges education is facing right now.
    I'm hugely interested in the challenges facing education, but I don't think those challenges are somehow unique to Scotland; they're common throughout the United Kingdom and are mired in bad organisation, spending limits, and what government thinks the point in education fundamentally "is".

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    Cowshed is withering without egb. As I pointed out earlier in the week we have nobody interested in the challenges education is facing right now. Something devolved and affects us all Not one post on it either. Or the London bombings or...
    Do you watch Educating Manchester? Its not something i would normally watch but i caught it this week - jeezo, some of those kids would have me up the wall in 10 minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    I'm hugely interested in the challenges facing education, but I don't think those challenges are somehow unique to Scotland; they're common throughout the United Kingdom and are mired in bad organisation, spending limits, and what government thinks the point in education fundamentally "is".
    The point was that we have had discussion worthy news this week of many hues, some important ones right on our doorstep. But without the Cowshed mainstays they are not going to get discussed.

    I fear for the future of the site with key protagonists gone...
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehibee View Post
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    Do you watch Educating Manchester? Its not something i would normally watch but i caught it this week - jeezo, some of those kids would have me up the wall in 10 minutes.
    No comment
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    I am hugely interested in Catalunya, I see them as my sisters and brothers, I know some as my brothers and sisters. I talk about it elsewhere nowadays, so do most bouncers.

    VISCA CATALUNYA!!
    nil satis nisi optimum

  10. #10
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    The masses have been tamed. There is no fight from the people anymore. The writing was on the wall when the government of Cyprus seized the bank accounts of its people. Had that happened 30-40 years ago, they would have burned down the banks and hung the bankers and government. Nowadays people post some half assed memes on Facebook and call it good.

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    The thing is the Catalan people are demonstrating in their millions, you wouldn't know it from the mainstream press.
    nil satis nisi optimum

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1875 View Post
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    The thing is the Catalan people are demonstrating in their millions, you wouldn't know it from the mainstream press.
    They won't want it shown here in case some of us Scots get ideas above our station again.
    They're gone, not here, forgotten
    The maroon brigade now cry
    The city is now Hibernian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
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    They won't want it shown here in case some of us Scots get ideas above our station again.
    Maybe our media should focus on the mess education is in in this country?

    That has much more impact on folk I know than what's happening in Catalonia.

    Media bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Maybe our media should focus on the mess education is in in this country?

    That has much more impact on folk I know than what's happening in Catalonia.

    Media bad.
    Because the news only ever reports on a single story at a time....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Maybe our media should focus on the mess education is in in this country?
    It's not 'a mess', and the media covers it pretty extensively given that the SNP is easy to blame for it as well as being the media's preferred target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    It's not 'a mess', and the media covers it pretty extensively given that the SNP is easy to blame for it as well as being the media's preferred target.
    The recruitment issues in education are a mess. And it's given little coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    The recruitment issues in education are a mess. And it's given little coverage.
    I could be wrong, but my last recollection of recruitment into education was that the Scottish government was aiming to increase numbers again this year; and they’ve been increasing the numbers for the last half-decade. In March (I think… Happy to be corrected), the education secretary announced additional funding for an extra 350 teachers this year. They’ve also created policies that provide new routes for people to get into the profession to plug the gap, and spent something like half a million on the “Teaching Makes People” campaign in order to develop STEM numbers.

    My own proclivities aside, I think the reason the media doesn’t focus on teacher recruitment specifically is because the Scottish government is doing a pretty good job of it and there’s little to criticise. Additional monies, policy reform to provide more pathways, and a funded national campaign aimed at recruiting people into the most important subjects.

    What makes you quantify this as “a mess”, and what else do you think could be done?

    I’m genuinely curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Maybe our media should focus on the mess education is in in this country?

    That has much more impact on folk I know than what's happening in Catalonia.

    Media bad.
    yup storm in US/caribbean impact us massively - given hours of coverage in the last fortnight
    follow the programme archive on twitter: http://twitter.com/hibsbollah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
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    yup storm in US/caribbean impact us massively - given hours of coverage in the last fortnight
    A lot of folks on holiday there were impacted. And I'd like to think we'd always have an interest in islands that are British?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    The recruitment issues in education are a mess. And it's given little coverage.
    I'm on holiday just now, but I caught a clip of fmq's with Davidson attempting to use this story to beat Sturgeon with, using an email from a guy apparently unable to teach in Scotland even though he could in England.

    Unfortunately for Frau Davidson, Frau sturgeon had also received the same email.

    I'll leave it to you who looked like the eedjit after a wee too and fro.

    Education can obviously be improved and has slipped under The SNP, but it's hardly the disaster a lot of folk try and portray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Education can obviously be improved and has slipped under The SNP, but it's hardly the disaster a lot of folk try and portray.
    Evidence I'm seeing suggests it's a disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    A lot of folks on holiday there were impacted. And I'd like to think we'd always have an interest in islands that are British?
    check you


    coverage of flooding in ex british colony of bangldesh was far less....
    follow the programme archive on twitter: http://twitter.com/hibsbollah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Evidence I'm seeing suggests it's a disaster.
    Did you thank Davidson for the email?

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    I'm amazed by the lack of coverage of Catalonia. Checked bbc website today - Europe page did not have a single article on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Evidence I'm seeing suggests it's a disaster.
    I presented you some evidence to the contrary of this view earlier, but you either missed or ignored it.

    So I suppose the only question I have for you is this; what evidence are you citing?

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    Apart from the road rage single , I thought they were average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Did you thank Davidson for the email?
    I've no knowledge whatsoever of that email.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    I presented you some evidence to the contrary of this view earlier, but you either missed or ignored it.

    So I suppose the only question I have for you is this; what evidence are you citing?

    Not ignoring it. Been up in Aberdeen all day and trying to get home for childcare. I shall reply when I can.

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    BBC News/ Europe has had five stories on Catalonia in the last six days. However, like others on the bounce, I am surprised the stories were not given greater prominence. It looks like it could become a constitutional crisis in a major EU country that is still in recovery from a major economic meltdown.

  29. #29
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    si catalunya

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
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    si catalunya
    The level of state repression here is really worrying. Been following online all day and it's hard to see where it ends. Visca!

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    I don't know much about the vote but the scenes today from Spain are an absolute disgrace for a so called democratic country. Sad times

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    Dictatorship Spain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehibee View Post
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    I don't know much about the vote but the scenes today from Spain are an absolute disgrace for a so called democratic country. Sad times
    Yep. But the usual suspects are out in force, justifying state violence against the elderly because the referendum was "illegal".

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    Truly the ghost of Franco was prominent yesterday - a shameful day for Spain

    decent explanation of background to referendum here

    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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    Interesting listening to the Spanish lass in my work defending what happened.

    Says there was video footage of public clashing with police (not that I've seen). Also that it was an illegal vote so they shouldn't have held it.

    I wasn't arguing with her as she is quite passionate about it and I don't know enough about the subject but she is from Southern Spain so kind of expected the stance she has.

  36. #36
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    My step mother is Spanish.

    One of the first pieces of advice she gave me was never $#@! with the Guardia Civil.

    After some of the stories she's told me, going back decades, I have to say I'm not surprised by the scenes I've seen on social media. Appalled but not surprised.
    Space to let

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehibee View Post
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    Interesting listening to the Spanish lass in my work defending what happened.

    Says there was video footage of public clashing with police (not that I've seen). Also that it was an illegal vote so they shouldn't have held it.

    I wasn't arguing with her as she is quite passionate about it and I don't know enough about the subject but she is from Southern Spain so kind of expected the stance she has.
    the vote wasn't illegal it wasn't legally binding - or so i've read... i'm no expert
    follow the programme archive on twitter: http://twitter.com/hibsbollah

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
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    the vote wasn't illegal it wasn't legally binding - or so i've read... i'm no expert
    This is the repeated mantra by those sympathetic to Madrid, along with a radical strain of Scottish unionists.

    Can any kind of vote can be considered illegal? The vote may not be legally binding or recognisable in a court, but the act of carrying out a vote can’t be in itself illegal, can it?

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    Horrific scenes on twitter from yesterday. Then you watch BBC News and they're interviewing folk in Barcelona not pro Independence. On the surface the demand for independence seems obvious but is it really? I'm loathing unionist politicians using it to score points here in Scotland. Highlighting the violence to tell Sturgeon etc to renounce any possible Indy Ref 2 is pathetic and frankly disgusting. Also all these pro Scottish Independence folks using this to push Independence when the evidence is clear that here in Scotland it's not even on the agenda for the majority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Horrific scenes on twitter from yesterday. Then you watch BBC News and they're interviewing folk in Barcelona not pro Independence. On the surface the demand for independence seems obvious but is it really? I'm loathing unionist politicians using it to score points here in Scotland. Highlighting the violence to tell Sturgeon etc to renounce any possible Indy Ref 2 is pathetic and frankly disgusting. Also all these pro Scottish Independence folks using this to push Independence when the evidence is clear that here in Scotland it's not even on the agenda for the majority.

    I think if a vote went ahead in Catalonia and was legal and as well ran as ours, it would be tight. Yes would win, but I think it would be 60/40 or there abouts? Plenty 'unionist' Catalans.

    After some thought yesterday I agreed with what you were saying about the EU a wee bit more. I'm still massively pro EU, and consider myself Porty/Edinburgh/Scottish/European, but the official statements yesterday were sickeners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I think if a vote went ahead in Catalonia and was legal and as well ran as ours, it would be tight. Yes would win, but I think it would be 60/40 or there abouts? Plenty 'unionist' Catalans.

    After some thought yesterday I agreed with what you were saying about the EU a wee bit more. I'm still massively pro EU, and consider myself Porty/Edinburgh/Scottish/European, but the official statements yesterday were sickeners.
    The EU appears to me to now be in hubris territory. Ultimately not giving a $#@! about the actual people of the EU. They shat themselves after the Brexit vote fearing others would follow but UK pic are absolutely on the backfoot in the negotiations. EU is confident. Looks like there's now no others within the EU who will dare follow Brexit. Indeed I'm now not thinking Brexit will happen.... I'd love to be pro EU. I'm now beginning to see a Scottish Scandinavian model. Outwith the UK or in some federal structure I'm not sure. The EU needs to change but it won't.

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    A man whose great grandfather, as king of Spain fled the country in 1931, is condemning the Catalans for a placing themselves 'outside the law'. When his Great grandfather fled the country, it was a republic. The Republic was militarily destroyed by Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy and after 40 years of facist dictatorship, the monarchy was restored by the Fascist dictator. Ideas of a republic were unthinkable before 1930, ideas of a Monarchy was unthinkable until 1978. Ideas that a Spanish King would pontificate, with any semblance of authority on a semi-autonomous state which is campaigning for a republicn independent state is brass neckednessof the lowest order!

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    the focus on the legality of the vote is odd, constitutionally it cant be done - the Spanish state is indivisible - Rajoy isnae gonna change that despite 80%+ of Catalans advocating a vote (likely to be more now?)

    just what are they supposed to do? if a people cant decide their own future democratically?

    if they have no voice then things are likely to turn nasty.

    A compromise deal may now be out of reach i hope Madrid reconsiders...for the sake of Spain, Catalonia and Europe
    Last edited by gun ainm; 05-10-17 at 15:00.
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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    I found this a thought provoking article on the escalating tension

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/10...-kings-speech/

    worth reading in full but to conclude he argues that Rajoy and Puigdemont are being reckless, that the fault lies primarily with the establishment in Madrid but that UDI wont be helpful.

    this comment addressing criticisms of drawing false equivalents between the 2 sides was a strong point imo

    If UDI is declared and Article 155 is triggered, there will be a purge by Rajoy’s PP of all pro Catalan elements in the Catalan State, like Edrogan did in Turkey. That’s what we’re talking. And don’t rule out an even worse scenario. Spain isn’t a Nation State, it’s a State of Nations. It bears a troubling resemblance to the former Yugoslavia.

    The only way I can see out of the situation is by ousting the Regime of 1978, as it is called by Podemos. The monarchy, the PP and the PSOE – commonly referred to as the PPSOE – and their corrupt and totally useless regime of never-ending incompetence and oppression. I wasn’t surprised by the State violence we saw in Catalonia. I had already seen it in Madrid at the time of the 15-M and the indignados…

    We need a new Constitution for a Democratic Federal Republic which enshrines the right of self-determination for Basques, Catalans and Galicians, and ends the privileges of a corrupt ruling elite who are, after all, the direct and successors of the homicidal dictator, Franco…
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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