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Thread: Just back and we got exactly what we deserved, nothing.....

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    Just back and we got exactly what we deserved, nothing.....

    How a team who have performed so well recently, look so poor today? I have my own thoughts on that and why we lost the way we did. The first thing was Neil Lennon changing a winning team, there was no need. Added to the fact Swanson has been and was poor, it made no sense to drop the excellent Slivka for the clearly unfit, tippy tappy Swanson. It also changed our shape from the Hunnery, it didnae work and Neil never changed it until deep into the second half. To accomodate the change, we lose the driving runs of John McGinn.

    Secondly, we have to try in every game. Today we did not offer enough, starting with Lennons disrespect of Hamilton in starting with basically three forwards and two wingers, then add in the lack of match fitness of Stokes, Whittaker and Barker when he came on, the casual attitude of Efe, and the unusual sight of Daz and Paul having stinkers. The third thing was Hamilton Accies. They matched us, shut us down and killed us on the break, classic smash and grab and very well executed.

    A week ago, Hibernian were going to win the league, I don't mind saying I was really excited about this season. Today there was a massive pop at 16.50 as our collective bubbles burst. What we witnessed today was what we need to get used to. Its fine playing the likes of Celtic, Aberdeen, St Johnstone and dare I say it, the Huns. They play football. The wee but clever teams come, close you down, stop you playing and hit you on the break. Hamilton gave us a masterclass in how to do that, and I am happy to congratulate them on that. You wouldnae pay to watch the anti fitba they play, that is why they had 200 away fans, but it is effective.

    Going through the team, the only Hibs player with pass marks was Dylan McGeouch, we took him off. Not one other player lived up to their potential, some were average, some were poor, one or two were awful.

    Neil Lennon doesn't like admitting he is wrong, he never changed it in time and when he did, he made the wrong substitutions. You got it wrong. He was beaten by the fitba intelligence of Martin Canning. There is a line you never thought you would ever read.

    The referee was fine, he let the game flow and the crowd was 16,600. Sadly so far the new location of the Since 1875 mob hasn't worked as ye simply cannae hear them from other areas of the ground. Not that I could hear the Hamilton fans, all 200 of them.

    So the team who let us down...

    Marciano, couple of great saves and very little chance at the goals, says it all really.

    Whitts isnae fit, he is tippy tappy going forward although can defend well. This may upset some, but I prefer david Gray, he scored the winner in the 2016 Cup Final, captaining the club in doing so. Roger done nowt much other than one slide rule pass today.

    Efe was casual, slack and poor. Worst I have seen him play.

    Darren made mistakes, gave away a daft penalty leaving his leg out in the box. Poor today overall.

    Paul Hanlon looked lost without Daz beside him, and he too looked poor through out a game against a team who didnae really threaten much, well other than score three and miss a couple more, for christ sake!!! Poor mistake at their 2nd goal.

    Lewis done OK, he always does, but nothing more, his crossing was guff.

    Dylan McGeouch was the diamond glistening in the toly of the team. So what did we do, take him off. Sweet Sauzee Lenny, ye buggered that one up. He gets pass marks, indeed he looked like he gave a $#@!e.

    John McGinn was played in the position where he never performs. For me to accomodate Danny Swanson, we miss his drive, power and desire to accomodate someone who thinks he should get a game because he supports Hibs. Bad mistake, we lose one of our best players.

    Danny Swanson, well I have defended him as trying too hard. Today he didnae try too hard, indeed he didnae try. Sitting in behind the strikers disnae mean you are a third striker and you can hing aboot like a Jambo near a swing park and do as little as possible? Is he fit? Why he replaced Slivka is beyond me, and suggests Lenny paid no respect to Hamilton and they booted his hole for it. Danny, just not good enough, Hibby or no.

    Talking of lazy Hibs players who done nowt, Stokesy had his fire doused today, he done nowt. Another bounce worthy suggested he really is a big game player. I think he is not fit, has a poor attitude and is greedy. Great on his day, poor when he cannae be arsed. He did score.

    Simon Murray looked out of sorts, he got no service but he wisnae chasing players and especially the keeper down the way he normally does. Hoofball disnae suit him and Swanson never linked with him. Put it down to an off day.

    Subs

    Barker replaced Swanson and looked to me like a poor Boyler, no where near fit, it was wrong. Should have been Slivka or Fraser Murray. Proceeded to look like another English loan player who thinks Scottish fitba is $#@!e. Hamilton sorted that misconception out. One mazy run and nowt more. I hope I am wrong?

    Slivka, who should have started, was given the impossible role of rescuing a situation beyond us. Replacing Daz (Sauzee knows why?), he tried to help the change from the failed 3 5 2 to 4 4 2, too little too late.

    Davie fi Lith replaced McGeouch, taking our best player off whilst Stokes and Murray blew out their holes, go figure. Davie done fine, he tried to get in there, but their two centre halfs owned the Hibs attack today.

    I think Lennon got it wrong today, he underestimated Hamilton and they booted our arses for it, and deserved to do so too. Must do better and must accept that when he gets it wrong he changes it when there is time to do so. I thought he would go through the team at half time, in fact they came out worse than they had been first half for the second half.

    I thought Hamilton were very, very professional about their game. They mastered us tactically. Hibs fans all around me were saying that Hibs were struggling, yes, but they were struggling because Accies played a tight, controlled game, owned the midfield and won every cross ball, whilst attacking quickly and cutting us open. They taught Hibernian a lesson today, a lesson on how to do well in the top league. Watch and learn Neil. Buggered if I would pay to watch that though.

    The referee had a decent game, and let it flow. Good stuff.

    My opinion is that the Since 1875's move has not worked yet, we now have old school chants from the East and the quiet sounding chants from my seat in the west lower, north end) from the North but they rarely link up. Then we have the pop along fans who left en masse at 80 minutes to go to the festival, a pint, hame for their tea or to watch an English Premiership game on the telly.

    Best Hibs player, well it wisnae John McGinn as Stevie Wonder, Andrea Bocelli and their respective guide dugs suggested at the game, that is for sure. Dylan McGeouch was Hibs best player and should never have been taken off, dead simple.

    So, bubble burst, back to 1000 Hibs fans in Dundee next week, where we will have abattle on our hands as the Dee already look to be fighting the drop.

    See you in Dundee, furra tak awa and a mince roll.

    Ohhh aye, it was my Mums first Hibs game today, she is in her 70's and fair enjoyed it, she loves the Hibs. It was also my pal Brian from Qatar's 2 sons first game, they too love the Hibs unconditionally. Gav on the bounces Mum came along today too, hudnae been at the Holy Ground since the 60's. That is what it means to people Hibs, buck yur ideas up, that is NOT GOOD ENOUGH you over paid arseholes!

    Furfuxake Hibs!!!

    See you behind the goals, Hibernian Forever.
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Micro$oft Hating Radge
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    Groundhog Day. Big away win last week, solid performance and then the next gam,e at home, utter guff. Not good enough. To do well in this league you need to win your home games or at the very least not get beat. So disappointing. Fair knocked the wind out my sails this morning. $hite mood for rest of the day now.
    Charlie don't surf !

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    I'd agree with all of that, apart from the 'anti football'comment about Hamilton. They played far far better football today than us.

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    I thought only the keeper and Lewis did ok today, just ok though. The rest of the team, Dylan included, were poor, really poor.

    I hope SJM doesn't over do it with the weights, he has bulked up massively this season but he looked heavy today ( not overweight) and body builders don't make good athletes.

    A bad day at the office, difficult to digest I know buts it's the SPL, every game will be tough.

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    Well that was back down to earth with a bump. As Mark mentioned I had my old Ma at the game today, performance notwithstanding she thoroughly enjoyed her first trip to the Holy Ground in 50 odd years. It made today's result bareable (almost).

    A few things I've noticed so far this season...Danny Swanson is either chronically unfit, lazy or the slowest player I've seen in many a year. The position in behind strikers does not seem to suit him as he is bustled off the ball continually. He looked to play more from the left for Saints and was effective there.

    We were getting a lot of praise for the flexibility of our squad and the shapes they can play. Today I thought we continued the very shaky looking defending that was also apparent every time we defended a cross a Ibrox. Are we chopping and changing personnel there too often? I know we have to a certain extent needed to thru suspension/injury but I am not a fan at all of the Back 3 at ER. It too easily becomes a Back 5 or a lopsided 4 when Whittaker gets forward.

    The service to a very narrow front 3 was absolute garbage today.

    We have too many players who are not yet up to match fitness..Hamilton exploited that today and were first to every second ball.

    We , no doubt, have a talented squad..it's obviously going to take a few months until we settle on our preferred first 11. There are bound to be a few bumps in the road but I hope we are much more flexible and adept at solving a tactical problem than we were today. We battered away to no real effect for 65 mins then looked worse after the changes (to be fair I'd probably have brought on the players we did but I'd have had others off instead I think).

    Much as I tried not to get too carried away by beating a $#@!e Huns I'll stay pretty level headed at today's result. It's an irritating frustration tho that there is still the Achilles Heal of playing clubs like Hamilton who seem to thrive on trips to ER.


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    McGeouch was poor. Not at it at all?
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Radge


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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    McGeouch was poor. Not at it at all?
    In your opinion, of course?
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1875 View Post
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    In your opinion, of course?
    I'd say every post on here is an opinion? I reckon we want that, no? It was even qualified with a question mark. I thought he was poor. Others may see it differently. No harm in that.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    I'd say every post on here is an opinion? I reckon we want that, no? It was even qualified with a question mark. I thought he was poor. Others may see it differently. No harm in that.
    I don't disagree.
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Watching on the TV I thought McGeouch did okay.

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    Quite a bit past it radge






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    The starting eleven were all poor.

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    Firstly, congratulations to Hamilton Accies who thoroughly deserved their win today and ripped us up for arse paper in the second half. Their third goal was one of the best team goals I have seen in a long time. Canning got his tactics spot on and had clearly done his homework on us, his team successfully snuffing out the threat of Hibs danger players. In truth, Hibs were fortunate to escape with just a 3-1 defeat as Marciano (who was Hibs only decent performer IMO) came to our rescue a few times. and they missed several chances particularly in the second half.

    Lennon was correct in his assessment he gave on Sportsound after the game. We looked off the pace from the start and we badly missed Martin Boyle's pace and goal threat from wide areas. It's games like todays where Boyle's ability to run and get in behind defences is so much missed. We didn't have any alternative option so we were back to the slow build up play and long ball stuff which teams find so easy to defend against. I can't think of one player who looked up for the game today. The lack of focus and the complete lack of cohesion throughout the team but particularly at the back was alarming. Our defence...which I have had concerns about for some time..looked ill at ease under pressure and lacked proper protection from midfield. The only really clear cut chance we created was in injury time and we got a goal from it. Stokes was continually having to drop deep to get the ball and that is always a bad sign. Murray was snuffed out of the game as were McGinn, McGeouch and Swanson. I didn't think Swanson was any worse than anyone else, in fact at least the guy was willing to try things and had a decent shot in the first half...our only proper effort on goal in that half. It was also quite clear today how lacking in match practice several of our players are.

    As Lennon says this game was a reality check. We are a newly promoted team and every single game we play in this league will be a tough one to win and a major test for us. I really hope that we can see some sort of reaction next Sunday at Dens Park. Let's hope that the players are a bit more up for it than they were today, and we can at least be a bit more competitive all over the pitch than we were today against Hamilton.
    Last edited by Greenmachine; 20-08-17 at 01:51.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

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    get off yer bum an sing radge


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    Got to say I have been worried about the defence for a while and made a few comments to that effect over the weeks. Efe makes mistakes...often bad ones. Yes 95% of the game he is fine, but giving away balls in the danger zone is a no no. But really, they are all good players but just at times either switch off, make a dodgy pass...and there was a lot today..or are so far up the field they get caught on the break. I am not saying they are bad players though, just I do not feel totally confident. And Ofir who was not to blame for the goals today, but I would like to see him catch balls a bit more instead of always punching the ball away. Maybe the ball is too wet from the continual deluge of water the groundsmen put on the pitch.

    The point about the singing section is probably valid. It has been an experiment, perhaps based on the away end when it is rocking at derbies and sellik, sevco games. The problem is that in these games the whole away stand join is. In the FF, no one joins in other than the singing section. But even in the East the same problem happened on a lesser scale. So many people just did not join in unless it was a big game. Come the derby the whole stadium will be jumping and won't even need someone playing a drum to get them going. But unless more people join in during the visits of so called smaller clubs, then there is little point complaining about the guys who do. I did wonder at the decision to use the FF as so many families use it. But it is what it is for the season at least. There is quite a few seats in the area though available and a lot of people who get these seats towards the back, most sit down and do not sing, so perhaps people who want an atmosphere created, might want to swap their season tickets to the singing section and perhaps it will grow the way we all hope for. It happens at stadiums abroad, why cant we have 2-3000 supporters who want to make as much noise as possible?

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    Just goes to show. I thought Steven Whittaker was our best player!

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    Furfuxake Hibs!!!

    See you behind the goals, Hibernian Forever.
    This can't have been enjoyable to write on what was a crappy day, so as ever thank you for making the effort, it's much appreciated.

    I particularly like how you always seem to zero in on the key question - this week, for me, why the team were suddenly nads after last week. It seems obvious but you honestly won't read that analysis elsewhere.

    Groping for the thinnest of silver linings, personally I'm weirdly glad we got $#@!ed rather than done in an 'unlucky' 1-0. Hopefully this can be the low point and thus a kick up the arse.
    so what do I know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Just goes to show. I thought Steven Whittaker was our best player!
    Agreeed


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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Just goes to show. I thought Steven Whittaker was our best player!
    I didn't think he was all that bad either. You take away the two gifts we gave them, there really wasn't much in the game. Two down we are chasing and get hit on the break for number three. Really didn't think we were dreadfully terrible. Certainly not good, some real bad mistakes by McGregor and Hanlon.

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    Playing with 3 central defenders is a viable tactic away from home against a team you want to close down in midfield. But its old fashioned and very rarely used by quality teams anywhere. Lennon needs to ask himself who is best to play alongside Daz and stick to that. IMO the answer is Porteous despite his age.

    Build our midfield round McGeough and Slivka who understand the effectiveness of quick passing and are technically up to it. God knows why Slikva wasnt on from the start after the way he played last week.

    That said it was just a bad day at the office. $#@! happens.



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    Honestly thought Big Marv was a huge part of the victory against Patrick. Having him in the team today would have made a big difference. The big mans an intimidating force against any side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTortolano View Post
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    Honestly thought Big Marv was a huge part of the victory against Patrick. Having him in the team today would have made a big difference. The big mans an intimidating force against any side.
    Out of interest, Who would you have dropped?

    I'm away to start a thread based on the comments many have made about selection. There's mileage in it.q
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    To be fair when working out the man of the match for that game you'd have to start with discounting the worst player then working your way through 50 shades of $#@!e until only one player remained.

    Was it a full moon yesterday? Cause that was a howler!
    Space to let

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    Out of interest, Who would you have dropped?
    I would have dropped Swanson or Slivka. I don't think Bartley is as technically gifted of either of those two, but the midfield plays better with him in it. The full backs seem to press further forward and both McGinn and Dylan play further forward. Just think he gives the team a better balance. All good teams over the years have had that player that balances the shape, he's our Keane/Vieira.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTortolano View Post
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    I would have dropped Swanson or Slivka. I don't think Bartley is as technically gifted of either of those two, but the midfield plays better with him in it. The full backs seem to press further forward and both McGinn and Dylan play further forward. Just think he gives the team a better balance. All good teams over the years have had that player that balances the shape, he's our Keane/Vieira.
    I agree with the gist of what you are saying here. This is the reason why Lennon will always play Bartley if he is fit and available to play. He is the defensive midfield anchorman who allows our other more attacking midfielders like McGinn, McGeogh, Swanson, Slivca or whoever to get forward and support the strikers and get into the penalty box. It also gives more license to our wing-backs to get forward. He also provides protection to our defence...a defence which looked badly exposed yesterday particularly to the counter-attack.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

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    We never did the simple things yesterday.

    1. We never won a single second ball.
    2. We never passed accurately or crisply.
    3. We never displayed a will to win.

    No team failing to do the above will win a game, especially not in this division.

    And for all the flak Stokes may take, one thing's for sure - create a clear-cut chance and he will bury it. As will Simon, I'm sure. But we only created one, really.

    Poor outing, and now not at home till my birthday in September. Bah.
    Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'...

  25. #25
    Radge Private Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We never did the simple things yesterday.

    1. We never won a single second ball.
    2. We never passed accurately or crisply.
    3. We never displayed a will to win.

    No team failing to do the above will win a game, especially not in this division.

    And for all the flak Stokes may take, one thing's for sure - create a clear-cut chance and he will bury it. As will Simon, I'm sure. But we only created one, really.

    Poor outing, and now not at home till my birthday in September. Bah.


    What about the header where Murray should have scored - excellent chance put wide.

  26. #26
    Justified Radge



    aggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lespenny View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What about the header where Murray should have scored - excellent chance put wide.
    Oh aye, good point. He was all by himself, too!
    Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'...

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