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Thread: HSL 100K Appeal?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    The Scottish Cup win will have kept the losses at £1.5 million. The thought of the financial impact on the club without that success and subsequent Bounce in attendance doesn't bear thinking about.Some of the 'hidden" finances like loss of TV money and sponsorship premiums hit hard.
    100% correct. I just think that HSL asking the loyal fans for yet more money at this stage of the pre-season is a bit much to be honest.

    As you say the financial calamity of unexpected relegation in 2014 and subsequent 3 year stay in the Championship will have had a severe impact on our club finances. I'm no money expert by any means, but it does appear to me that the cup win kept our heads above water financially. This why my expectations for our first season back are top 6 at best. Lennon and Stubbs before him have done well in their transfer windows IMO despite the financial constraints placed before them. We have operated as an SPL club in the second tier of Scottish football for three years and it has delivered the Scottish cup and eventually promotion. There has been a price to be paid however.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmc View Post
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    In the interests of clarity let me just say I don't 'get' the HSL. It seems to me to be a group of Hibs fans being paid by another body/group/collective/individuals to purchase shares on 'their' behalf - which the purchasers will never actually own?
    Isn't that what we're constantly amused at the maroon balloons for doing with FoH?
    You say you don't get HSL, maybe i'm not completely understanding your statement. HSL collect money and all money goes to buy Hibs shares, nobody gets 'paid' at HSL.

    'There is a binding legal agreement between Hibernian Supporters Limited and Hibernian Football Club that guarantees the transfer of shares on receipt of funds and that those funds will only be used to further the Club’s sporting ambitions and not directed to current shareholders.

    Hibernian Supporters Limited will be owned by supporters who make contributions which in turn will be used to acquire shares in Hibernian. Supporters who make contributions will not own shares directly but will own Hibernian Supporters Limited which in turn will own the shares in the Club.

    Hibernian Supporters Limited is a simple alternative to holding shares directly. Acquiring shares directly requires individuals to comply with rigorous Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 regulations.

    Contributions to Hibernian Supporters Limited can be made on a monthly basis or by lump sum. The more money raised the more shares can be acquired. The more shares acquired mean more involvement and influence supporters can have in the Club – there is strength in solidarity'

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Sleeves View Post
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    His company want to keep hold of 49% in the long term (after 51% sold to HSL). Hibs might have more ambition and vision if he was to openly state his plan is to leave the club entirely with new owners actively sought. Put the club on the market. Nobody is saying take the first chancer who comes along. Give HSL power of veto. But get fresh money into Hibs beyond HSL.
    HSL will never own the total 51%. If and when we we get to 51% fan ownership it will be split between HSL and individual share holders.



    I've always thought HSL missed a big trick by not having a big membership drive within weeks of the cup win and probably directly after winning the championship. HSL is probably a long term goal.

    No criticism of the guys looking after HSL at the moment but maybe it's about time we need a change at HSL board level. People with the time, energy and passion to move HSL on.

    HSL is a good vehicle for investing in Hibs along with the likes of KickforKids

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    100% correct. I just think that HSL asking the loyal fans for yet more money at this stage of the pre-season is a bit much to be honest.

    As you say the financial calamity of unexpected relegation in 2014 and subsequent 3 year stay in the Championship will have had a severe impact on our club finances. I'm no money expert by any means, but it does appear to me that the cup win kept our heads above water financially. This why my expectations for our first season back are top 6 at best. Lennon and Stubbs before him have done well in their transfer windows IMO despite the financial constraints placed before them. We have operated as an SPL club in the second tier of Scottish football for three years and it has delivered the Scottish cup and eventually promotion. There has been a price to be paid however.

    Agreed.

    I am not sure everyone has realised given some of the conversations on here and elsewhere of late. The thing is we are going to have to address the loss as well as trying to build for the future on the park. I think weve seen those tensions play out in this horrible transfer window.

    I am sure Marathonbet and Co will now be paying more into the coffers and we will get more tv money but how much we get depends on where we finish in the league. It's all intrinsically linked..

    I wonder what happens when greater fan ownership of the club comes to pass...and the support have greater responsibility for raising funds. HSL is a transition stage on that journey.

    They perhaps haven't been too clever in how they've gone about it. Exhibition 1 m'lud, the points for subscription money fiasco...
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

  4. #54
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    The potential for different funding options is pretty big, get the feeling that there are many closed ears. With the right planning and delivery there is no reason why the income to the club cannot be far greater.

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    What were our financial results last year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    What were our financial results last year?
    As in 2016-17?

    Have they been released?

    It would be the worst year for revenues from tv and there were no monies from playing the Orcs. The parachute payments were only for the first two seasons too iirc. They also never tell specifics about sponsorship deals but I can't imagine Marathonbet paid top dollar for a third year in the second tier of Scottish football...

    Where's SlovSam when you need him?
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    For 14/15 we made a 840K loss. 15/16 a small profit. I'd be surprised if 16/17 we've made a 660K+ loss to give us a cumulative loss of 1.5 million?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    What were our financial results last year?
    We posted a profit of £200,000 IIRC...

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    For 14/15 we made a 840K loss. 15/16 a small profit. I'd be surprised if 16/17 we've made a 660K+ loss to give us a cumulative loss of 1.5 million?

    You have to imagine the figure had come from their conversations with Leeann?
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    You have to imagine the figure had come from their conversations with Leeann?
    Maybe she meant we could have been £1.5m better off, rather than posted that as a loss? It would still mean being in the Championship cost us £1.5m.
    GGTTH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weehibbydrew View Post
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    Maybe she meant we could have been £1.5m better off, rather than posted that as a loss? It would still mean being in the Championship cost us £1.5m.
    That's how I take how it's meant.

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weehibbydrew View Post
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    Maybe she meant we could have been £1.5m better off, rather than posted that as a loss? It would still mean being in the Championship cost us £1.5m.
    Possibly. I guess we will see when the latest accounts come out.

    And it will be interesting to see how much wages on management of the team increased. Lennon will have cost way more to employ than Stubbs...
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    What gets me is the lazy way the club looks to generate additional income streams. Retail is for me STILL a huge missed opportunity.

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    Click here for my very quick look at our finances. To my knowledge, 2016-2017 hasn't yet been released (the accounts run July to July, I believe).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weehibbydrew View Post
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    Maybe she meant we could have been £1.5m better off, rather than posted that as a loss? It would still mean being in the Championship cost us £1.5m.
    Charlie specifically says we've made losses of £1.5M in that video. That's not the same as saying 'We've missed out on £1.5M'.

    Semantics, but when you're being asked by a millionaire to donate more money to something, I think it's only right that they're accurate. It comes across as an untruth I think, and I'm sure Charlie would hate to have that levelled at him. HSLs intentions are clear and good imo, but that video is crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Click here for my very quick look at our finances. To my knowledge, 2016-2017 hasn't yet been released (the accounts run July to July, I believe).
    Definitely not yet been released.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Charlie specifically says we've made losses of £1.5M in that video. That's not the same as saying 'We've missed out on £1.5M'.

    Semantics, but when you're being asked by a millionaire to donate more money to something, I think it's only right that they're accurate. It comes across as an untruth I think, and I'm sure Charlie would hate to have that levelled at him. HSLs intentions are clear and good imo, but that video is crap.
    And Charlie has been told more about our latest financial year than other shareholders....

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Charlie specifically says we've made losses of £1.5M in that video.
    I think the number is inaccurate, but I don't know by how much. Here's how I believe Charlie arrived at it: he's added our two years of losses to reach a total of 1.7m, then took away the 200,000 profit we posted in 15/16 to reach 1.5m of losses. Personally, the reason I think it's inaccurate, is because I reckon we've posted another small profit this year by virtue of European football, winning the Championship, and increased season ticket sales from the year before. We also obtained another Hampden payday via the Scottish Cup semi-final, and I'm guessing that we paid slightly less in first team wages.

    Again, it's purely a guess (though a considered one...), but I think we're going to post an operating profit of between 100,000 and 200,000 for the last year. If Charlie is correct, and is including this year's figures, then we've broke even.

    Considering our position, that's still extremely stable and a testament to how well the club is run. Several Premiership clubs, including those competing with us, would dream of being in such a position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    I think the number is inaccurate, but I don't know by how much. Here's how I believe Charlie arrived at it: he's added our two years of losses to reach a total of 1.7m, then took away the 200,000 profit we posted in 15/16 to reach 1.5m of losses. Personally, the reason I think it's inaccurate, is because I reckon we've posted another small profit this year by virtue of European football, winning the Championship, and increased season ticket sales from the year before. We also obtained another Hampden payday via the Scottish Cup semi-final, and I'm guessing that we paid slightly less in first team wages.

    Again, it's purely a guess (though a considered one...), but I think we're going to post an operating profit of between 100,000 and 200,000 for the last year. If Charlie is correct, and is including this year's figures, then we've broke even.

    Considering our position, that's still extremely stable.
    That's including 4 seasons worth of accounts? It might have felt like 4 years, but it was only 3!

    Think our books run aligned with the football seasons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    That's including 4 seasons worth of accounts? It might have felt like 4 years, but it was only 3!

    Think our books run aligned with the football seasons?
    It includes the year we were relegated, bud. It's a fudge (or looks to be one) of language, and what you choose to count as a "loss due to relegation", but that looks to be how he's worked it out. No other working makes sense, as far as I can see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    It includes the year we were relegated, bud. It's a fudge (or looks to be one) of language, and what you choose to count as a "loss due to relegation", but that looks to be how he's worked it out. No other working makes sense, as far as I can see.
    That makes it even worse. They can't use a loss made in the Premiership to built a bad picture of the 3 season relegation to produce a figure and ask for donations on the back of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    That makes it even worse. They can't use a loss made in the Premiership to built a bad picture of the 3 season relegation to produce a figure and ask for donations on the back of it.
    If he's specifically referencing our years in the Championship, then he's saying that we've lost 900,000 in the last year (which he's either guessing, or the shareholders have this years results). Even with the loss of parachute payments, that strikes me as extremely unlikely.

    I doubt the error, if that's what it was, is deliberate. It's just an error. We'll only know what relegation "cost" the club when we know what happened in the last year. My question about the HSL video is what they think the club will do with an extra 100,000. In footballing finance terms, it's not a lot; even in Scotland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    If he's specifically referencing our years in the Championship, then he's saying that we've lost 900,000 in the last year (which he's either guessing, or the shareholders have this years results). Even with the loss of parachute payments, that strikes me as extremely unlikely.I doubt the error, if that's what it was, is deliberate. It's just an error. We'll only know what relegation "cost" the club when we know what happened in the last year. My question about the HSL video is what they think the club will do with an extra 100,000. In footballing finance terms, it's not a lot; even in Scotland.
    What is concerning to him quoting £1.5m loss for period outside the SPL -which I don't believe is correct. Is A hibs and HSL director posted the video and may have filmed the video should have corrected this or more importantly not allowed the figure to be made public.2017 accounts haven't been made public and information shouldn't be made public until released to shareholders

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    I agree , I think we need clarity on the 1.5m and plans can be made to cover it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpower View Post
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    What is concerning to him quoting £1.5m loss for period outside the SPL -which I don't believe is correct. Is A hibs and HSL director posted the video and may have filmed the video should have corrected this or more importantly not allowed the figure to be made public.2017 accounts haven't been made public and information shouldn't be made public until released to shareholders
    That's what makes me think he's counting our relegation season; even if he's a shareholder, the accounts haven't gone out yet (AFAIK).

    Quote Originally Posted by NW View Post
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    I agree , I think we need clarity on the 1.5m and plans can be made to cover it.
    It's not a big deal. I'm pretty sure our cash at bank covers it. The only reason it'd be an issue is if we needed to refinance in order to clear it... And I'm 99% certain that we don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    I wonder what happens when greater fan ownership of the club comes to pass...and the support have greater responsibility for raising funds. HSL is a transition stage on that journey.
    I heard of a number of clubs with a group similar to what HSL might look like after all these available shares have been bought.

    If HSL were to keep collecting subs then they would become a source of funds out with there normal income. I think these groups have used their money, the fans money, to cover losses or buy it pay the wages of players the club would like but couldn't otherwise afford.
    Space to let

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    pay into HSL every month and got no problem doing so but some reforms in its personnel and operations are overdue, emailed them months ago with a couple of questions and got no response, with only 1500 members should be able to deal with the odd enquiry.
    until the sky turns green

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    Stopped paying into HSL two memberships after points for cash. A simple principal based on being a distance fan with travelling costs and the loyalty scheme being scrapped. Like Hibs I need to balance the books. HSL in its basic form is a good thing , but the lines got blurred by poor decision making and communication and I think a fresh look is required to reengage fans like myself.

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    By part/time supporter in forum Frenchman's Cowshed
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-11-06, 21:16

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