Rangers Cheating And Hibs Response

**Smurf** · 05-07-17, 16:07

All of us that coughed up our hard earned dough to watch Hibs did so not knowing the competition we were paying to watch our club participate in was rigged. Us the fans were cheated with this lot of charlatans.

Rangers FC who died now need to have all trophies removed from the history books.

Regan at the SFA and Doncaster at the SPFL need to go.

Celtic FC have put out a very good media release with regards to this.

Hibs must do likewise.

NW · 05-07-17, 16:11

I agree. Season tickets and then lost opportunities in cups etc. Hibs also lost out on prize money, sponsorship money and other income. If it's a fact that the sfa knew and did nothing the clubs and the fans are entitled to go after them

**Jamie** · 05-07-17, 16:14

Still waiting on the ibrox statement so wouldnt hold yer breath zzzzz

Posted fae my Phone on Tapatalk

**Steve20** · 05-07-17, 16:15

We all know why Celtic put a response like that out. They want the titles.

i'd rather our club concentrated on getting the signings that we're struggling to get over the line actually done.

NW · 05-07-17, 16:19

We have a big enough board to do both. Our club have been Deprived of good income that we earned and fans have been cheated.

**sauzee 1875** · 05-07-17, 16:46

Originally Posted by Steve20

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We all know why Celtic put a response like that out. They want the titles.

i'd rather our club concentrated on getting the signings that we're struggling to get over the line actually done.

If that's the case won't Motherwell and the gunts be entitled to a title if part of there 9 in a row
On hols at minute so not read into this to much so maybe wide of mark

**HATTIE** · 05-07-17, 17:37

This isn't about clubs clamouring for titles or cash, imo blatant cheats, which is now official, should be stripped of every title or cup they won or the games becomes worthless.
The SFA cannot let this lie, or our game will be finished

**Dub** · 05-07-17, 17:45

Originally Posted by Steve20

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We all know why Celtic put a response like that out. They want the titles.

i'd rather our club concentrated on getting the signings that we're struggling to get over the line actually done.

It's not just the titles Steve. Entry in to European competition has been taken away from clubs because they didn't finish high enough in as league that was distorted. Money that the huns got from European entries would have gone to these clubs. Scottish cup finals [not to mention earlier rounds] where clubs lost to the huns resulting in less money and again, the loss of a European slot. They got away with this for years and now they have been found out they should be suitably punished.

If it was up to me, any money they got from Europe/Title wins/Cup wins should be given to the next best placed team who might have finished in a better position if not for the huns cheating. The SFA can pay this out of any cash due to the huns at the end of each season [fining them won't be much good except that it could push them over the edge again which would be nice]. The money could be paid out based on team positions etc from the year the cheating began and continue each year until everyone of the clubs cheated out of something are paid back. It's a stretch I know.

Regan, Doncaster, Ogilvie [especially Ogilvie] should be thrown out of office for allowing this cheating to go on and a new board appointed who have no confirmed allegiance to either of the Old Firm.

I agree with @Smurf [as always]

**Tkraz** · 05-07-17, 18:00

We should set the 'tache on them. He is less involved in the club so has time on his hands, he knows how the innards of the beast that is the SFA and the SPFL works and has already set out his stall the same way Celtic did in 2012.

Rod Petrie accuses Rangers of ‘damaging SPL integrity’ - The Scotsman

**1875** · 05-07-17, 18:09

Originally Posted by Steve20

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We all know why Celtic put a response like that out. They want the titles.

i'd rather our club concentrated on getting the signings that we're struggling to get over the line actually done.

I want us and other clubs to dance on the cheating hun $#@!s grave.

**HenryLB** · 05-07-17, 18:13

Some sort of robust response is vital IMO. They did this stuff in the first place because they expect us - by which I mean the other clubs and Scottish football in general - to act like scared little mice around them. Enough, they need to be stood up to, if only so they start respecting others a bit.

**Jack** · 05-07-17, 18:21

In my opinion the titles could not/should not be given to the next placed club.

The placing should just be noted as winner void or some such thing.

Who knows how earlier cup runs would have gone with a genuine team out. Who knows how the league would have gone.

This avoids the question of compensation which in itself would be a legal minefield.

First would be our favourite one! Are they the same club?
The football club is the same so Yes football debts could maybe be instigated. But it was only the first new owners that accepted that responsibility. There's been a few new owners since then. The original board and that club are even beyond the entity being wound up by BDO and today stuffed by HMRC so good luck in that queue!

The Scottish Football Authorities are still there though in body at least as they have no soul. I'd say they were in it way beyond their collective necks.

Anyone who is or was involved in this debacle in any way shape or form needs not only needs kicked out on their arse but banned from any role in Scottish Football for life. And that includes our Rod.

**Fritz** · 05-07-17, 18:50

Scottish footballs glorious leaders aren`t going to do $#@!.

" Scottish FA statement on Supreme Court ruling
Wednesday, 05 July 2017

The Board of the Scottish FA notes the judgment of the Supreme Court and wishes to clarify the implications of this final legal decision from a football regulatory perspective.

In light of the Inner House of the Court of Session decision, the Board of the Scottish FA sought external senior counsel opinion to ensure a robust and independent consideration of all implications of today’s judgment.

The Board received written advice from Senior Counsel, amplified when the QC attended a full meeting of the Board to discuss his conclusions.

Specifically, Senior Counsel was asked to anticipate whether a determination in favour of HMRC, as announced today, could imply that there had been a breach of the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Rules as they applied at the time of the EBT payments.

The clear opinion of Senior Counsel is that there is a very limited chance of the Scottish FA succeeding in relation to any complaint regarding this matter and that, even if successful, any sanctions available to a Judicial Panel would also be limited in their scope.

Accordingly, having had time to consider the opinion from Senior Counsel, and having examined the judgment of the UK Supreme Court, the Board has determined that no further disciplinary action should be taken by the Scottish FA at this time. "

**dd1875** · 05-07-17, 18:55

Originally Posted by sauzee 1875

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If that's the case won't Motherwell and the gunts be entitled to a title if part of there 9 in a row
On hols at minute so not read into this to much so maybe wide of mark

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**Roger Mellie** · 05-07-17, 20:01

Originally Posted by Fritz

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Scottish footballs glorious leaders aren`t going to do $#@!.

" Scottish FA statement on Supreme Court ruling
Wednesday, 05 July 2017

The Board of the Scottish FA notes the judgment of the Supreme Court and wishes to clarify the implications of this final legal decision from a football regulatory perspective.

In light of the Inner House of the Court of Session decision, the Board of the Scottish FA sought external senior counsel opinion to ensure a robust and independent consideration of all implications of today’s judgment.

The Board received written advice from Senior Counsel, amplified when the QC attended a full meeting of the Board to discuss his conclusions.

Specifically, Senior Counsel was asked to anticipate whether a determination in favour of HMRC, as announced today, could imply that there had been a breach of the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Rules as they applied at the time of the EBT payments.

The clear opinion of Senior Counsel is that there is a very limited chance of the Scottish FA succeeding in relation to any complaint regarding this matter and that, even if successful, any sanctions available to a Judicial Panel would also be limited in their scope.

Accordingly, having had time to consider the opinion from Senior Counsel, and having examined the judgment of the UK Supreme Court, the Board has determined that no further disciplinary action should be taken by the Scottish FA at this time. "

No surprise there ,from an organisation that has aided and abetted the forces of hunnery on their journey of cheating their way through Scottish Football.

**blue toon hibby** · 05-07-17, 20:48

Originally Posted by 1875

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I want us and other clubs to dance on the cheating hun $#@!s grave.

Amen to that!

**gun ainm** · 05-07-17, 20:49

Originally Posted by Fritz

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Scottish footballs glorious leaders aren`t going to do $#@!.

" Scottish FA statement on Supreme Court ruling
Wednesday, 05 July 2017

The Board of the Scottish FA notes the judgment of the Supreme Court and wishes to clarify the implications of this final legal decision from a football regulatory perspective.

In light of the Inner House of the Court of Session decision, the Board of the Scottish FA sought external senior counsel opinion to ensure a robust and independent consideration of all implications of today’s judgment.

The Board received written advice from Senior Counsel, amplified when the QC attended a full meeting of the Board to discuss his conclusions.

Specifically, Senior Counsel was asked to anticipate whether a determination in favour of HMRC, as announced today, could imply that there had been a breach of the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Rules as they applied at the time of the EBT payments.

The clear opinion of Senior Counsel is that there is a very limited chance of the Scottish FA succeeding in relation to any complaint regarding this matter and that, even if successful, any sanctions available to a Judicial Panel would also be limited in their scope.

Accordingly, having had time to consider the opinion from Senior Counsel, and having examined the judgment of the UK Supreme Court, the Board has determined that no further disciplinary action should be taken by the Scottish FA at this time. "

that's both terrible in its use of English and its implication (or what i can glean from it). Agree with smurf Hibs should be resolute in standing for fair play.

**Purple & Green** · 05-07-17, 21:32

Share the written advice firstly, it sounds suspiciously like Donald Finlay supplied it.

Did the sfa run the league or was it the spl? It’s hard to believe rules in relation to player registration in the Scottish cup weren’t broken.

Originally Posted by Fritz

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scottish footballs glorious leaders aren`t going to do $#@!.

" Scottish FA statement on Supreme Court ruling
Wednesday, 05 July 2017

The Board of the Scottish FA notes the judgment of the Supreme Court and wishes to clarify the implications of this final legal decision from a football regulatory perspective.

In light of the Inner House of the Court of Session decision, the Board of the Scottish FA sought external senior counsel opinion to ensure a robust and independent consideration of all implications of today’s judgment.

The Board received written advice from Senior Counsel, amplified when the QC attended a full meeting of the Board to discuss his conclusions.

Specifically, Senior Counsel was asked to anticipate whether a determination in favour of HMRC, as announced today, could imply that there had been a breach of the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Rules as they applied at the time of the EBT payments.

The clear opinion of Senior Counsel is that there is a very limited chance of the Scottish FA succeeding in relation to any complaint regarding this matter and that, even if successful, any sanctions available to a Judicial Panel would also be limited in their scope.

Accordingly, having had time to consider the opinion from Senior Counsel, and having examined the judgment of the UK Supreme Court, the Board has determined that no further disciplinary action should be taken by the Scottish FA at this time. "

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**Desperate Dan** · 05-07-17, 21:50

Originally Posted by Fritz

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Scottish footballs glorious leaders aren`t going to do $#@!.

" Scottish FA statement on Supreme Court ruling
Wednesday, 05 July 2017

The Board of the Scottish FA notes the judgment of the Supreme Court and wishes to clarify the implications of this final legal decision from a football regulatory perspective.

In light of the Inner House of the Court of Session decision, the Board of the Scottish FA sought external senior counsel opinion to ensure a robust and independent consideration of all implications of today’s judgment.

The Board received written advice from Senior Counsel, amplified when the QC attended a full meeting of the Board to discuss his conclusions.

Specifically, Senior Counsel was asked to anticipate whether a determination in favour of HMRC, as announced today, could imply that there had been a breach of the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Rules as they applied at the time of the EBT payments.

The clear opinion of Senior Counsel is that there is a very limited chance of the Scottish FA succeeding in relation to any complaint regarding this matter and that, even if successful, any sanctions available to a Judicial Panel would also be limited in their scope.

Accordingly, having had time to consider the opinion from Senior Counsel, and having examined the judgment of the UK Supreme Court, the Board has determined that no further disciplinary action should be taken by the Scottish FA at this time. "

There cannae be a flat carpet left in the offices of any governing body involved with Scottish fitba when it comes tae covering up for the huns

**The Family** · 05-07-17, 22:01

$#@!ing guilty as charged, let's hope all the players who got these wages have to pay everything back!!

**beefy** · 05-07-17, 22:02

Hibs will say $#@! all.

**Sir Shrink** · 05-07-17, 22:09

Originally Posted by beefy

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Hibs will say $#@! all.

The lack of support from our Board and CEO after the disgraceful treatment of our fans at the Hunnery suggests you are spot on.
Like it or not, the Huns are NOT treated as they should be by our club, or by others.

**tricky** · 05-07-17, 22:12

Originally Posted by beefy

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Hibs will say $#@! all.

sadly you are probably right

would also be a good time time to state we will not accept sectarian abuse of our staff from opposition fans next season

no chance of that either

**Smurf** · 05-07-17, 22:17

Apart from Celtic has any other club commented? The likes of us, Hearts & Aberdeen should be putting out a joint statement.

**1875** · 05-07-17, 22:19

Originally Posted by Sir Shrink

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The lack of support from our Board and CEO after the disgraceful treatment of our fans at the Hunnery suggests you are spot on.
Like it or not, the Huns are NOT treated as they should be by our club, or by others.

Controversial I know, but maybe we should stop employing and lauding them? Just saying likes.

**Sir Shrink** · 05-07-17, 22:26

Originally Posted by 1875

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Controversial I know, but maybe we should stop employing and lauding them? Just saying likes.

They should be accountable to the fans.

Unfortunately accountability gets clouded by accusations of dishonesty when the real issue is competency. Never more obvious than when STF and Rodders were/are accused of leeching the profits.

I much preferred the Hibs that said ' fcuk selling to our rivals' to the one that said 'we have to maintain relations with other clubs'.

If something is wrong, it's wrong.
If Hibs can't stand up for the Hibs fans, then fcukin stand up for Hibs.

**beefy** · 05-07-17, 22:49

The game is a bogey. Nothing will happen. Everything will carry on season after season. Same old same old.

Why? I DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHY WE CONTINUE TO CONTINUE IN THIS $#@!IN FARCE OF A GAME UP HERE? WHY AFTER ALL THESE YEARS OF CORRUPT BULL$#@! ARE WE STILL AT IT? IT'S MINDBLOWING!

Um sorry for shouting but a just shouted that oot loud ya bass!!! Didnae feel better. Pah! Andum stoned for the first time in yonks. thank$#@!

**Sir Shrink** · 05-07-17, 22:55

I might be wrong (again) but is it not up to the SPFL rather than the SFA?

And is our CEO not a rep on the Board?

Might be bollix mind.

**HATTIE** · 05-07-17, 22:56

Get it on twitter, facebook etc, try and sort out all fans forums to set up an alliance to at first get regan, Ogilvie and Doncastor out and force a justifiable punish to blatant cheats

**Jack** · 05-07-17, 23:33

Given its marching season maybe we should all match on the SFA offices!

**Gunnerhibby** · 06-07-17, 00:06

Originally Posted by Sir Shrink

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I might be wrong (again) but is it not up to the SPFL rather than the SFA?

And is our CEO not a rep on the Board?

Might be bollix mind.

The SPFL(SPL at that time) would be involved in any League matters, ie; points deduction, League Title/Cup stripping, etc, and the SFA would decide on Scottish Cup matters.

But the crux of it all comes down to player registration and what the Huns didn't declare. Players earnings must be declared to Hampden(either SPFL or SFA or both) along with their contract of employment, which all forms part of the registration process. The "side letters" didn't declare all the players earnings, and are like a second contract but only between club and player, not SFA/SPFL. This is a breach of rule on its own.
The first contract being lodged with both SPFL & SFA, so it would have to be a bi-lateral approach as the players registrations involve both bodies.

In interviews seen on BBC "Selling The Jerseys" docu(the reason the Huns banned them), players admitted they wouldn't have signed for them if they didnt get the amounts they were getting. In the first Big Tax Case hearing, witness "Mr Black"(allegedly meant to be SDM but their identities were protected) told Hector they wouldn't have got these players unless they paid them those amounts.

There is more than enough evidence, officially documented, to make the case against the Huns. Problem being, there is no one at Hampden with the balls to do it, and those in position of power are either ex-Huns, or in their EBT scheme.

If anything is to be done with this it has to be Supporter led, with pressure from fans on their respective clubs to do something about it.

Frank and Tracey? their ears have be chewed off to make sure they get Petrie to stand up and do some thing. F'uck his blazer!

**tayside hibee** · 06-07-17, 00:56

I'm as far away from a financial brain dude as you could find , but during the years of the Hun buying these world class players , myself and many others did ask the question so many times " where do they get all the money" ? We all agreed that Murray wasn't paying it all out his own pocket, so everyone knew there was underhand dealings going on. I've never understood the shock factor when it all came out.
To be honest , I'm all a bit bored by it all now. They died, they came back , at some point we all must move on , we are not getting rid of them soon.
It's nothing new the Hun being a dirty cheating bunch of bustards, they always have been , always will be . A more unlikeable bunch of cretins do not exist, they actually revel in it. Nobody should , and won't I'm sure , ever let them forget that we don't recognise their achievements.
It must be the tip of the iceberg, other teams and companies must have used them vigorously, the Hun never thought them up, they must have been advised. Surely the advisers and recipients of the free money must be sought and asked to cough up. Football wise , it really is a case of we must move on, otherwise we will still be getting our knickers in a twist for the next ten years again, and trust me , nothing of any consequence will happen, the past is in the past.
I promise, I always dreamt that when we won the cup, it would be against them , with a last minute winner . I got my dream , that's how I deal with them still being around.

**blue toon hibby** · 06-07-17, 06:06

Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby

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The SPFL(SPL at that time) would be involved in any League matters, ie; points deduction, League Title/Cup stripping, etc, and the SFA would decide on Scottish Cup matters.

But the crux of it all comes down to player registration and what the Huns didn't declare. Players earnings must be declared to Hampden(either SPFL or SFA or both) along with their contract of employment, which all forms part of the registration process. The "side letters" didn't declare all the players earnings, and are like a second contract but only between club and player, not SFA/SPFL. This is a breach of rule on its own.
The first contract being lodged with both SPFL & SFA, so it would have to be a bi-lateral approach as the players registrations involve both bodies.

In interviews seen on BBC "Selling The Jerseys" docu(the reason the Huns banned them), players admitted they wouldn't have signed for them if they didnt get the amounts they were getting. In the first Big Tax Case hearing, witness "Mr Black"(allegedly meant to be SDM but their identities were protected) told Hector they wouldn't have got these players unless they paid them those amounts.

There is more than enough evidence, officially documented, to make the case against the Huns. Problem being, there is no one at Hampden with the balls to do it, and those in position of power are either ex-Huns, or in their EBT scheme.

If anything is to be done with this it has to be Supporter led, with pressure from fans on their respective clubs to do something about it.

Frank and Tracey? their ears have be chewed off to make sure they get Petrie to stand up and do some thing. F'uck his blazer!

If Petrie is indeed still in office should he not be considering hanging up his blazer as a gesture after all his talk about "sporting integrity" etc?

**SlovSam** · 06-07-17, 07:42

If Hibs couldnt stand up for their own fans after the infamous Xmas game v "Scotlands Shame 2012" then there isnt a hope in hell of them putting their head above the parapet on something as monumental as "£48m illegaly paid to 80 employees over 11 years in order to cheat your way to 14 domestic trophy's.

That's far to big for Leanne to deal with and "The Dear Leader" wont be rocking any boats or burning his hard earned blazer at the SFA/SPFL while Doncaster and Regan are still in place.

Hibs policy sometimes rightly,sometimes wrongly over the years when the going gets tough is to keep stummm and hope the problem goes away and it will as the SFA have already drawn up the barricades by saying no further action will be taken.

"Celtc's" next move might be interesting and while they are morally right and now completely vindicated they are also isolated without the other clubs support.

The SPFL issued a holding statement "considering their options" but they are boxed into a dead end corner devoid of leadership.

Its the end of the line and while it would be correct that the history books were amended to show "null and void" where the 14 trophy's used to be this isn't going to happen.

Did "Scotland Shame 1872" get away with it... Yes they did but will "Scotland's Shame 2012" be remorselly reminded of it indefinitely Yes they will.

NW · 06-07-17, 08:58

RP should show integrity and resign from SFA

**Davy** · 06-07-17, 09:40

Originally Posted by tayside hibee

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I'm as far away from a financial brain dude as you could find , but during the years of the Hun buying these world class players , myself and many others did ask the question so many times " where do they get all the money" ? We all agreed that Murray wasn't paying it all out his own pocket, so everyone knew there was underhand dealings going on. I've never understood the shock factor when it all came out.
To be honest , I'm all a bit bored by it all now. They died, they came back , at some point we all must move on , we are not getting rid of them soon.
It's nothing new the Hun being a dirty cheating bunch of bustards, they always have been , always will be . A more unlikeable bunch of cretins do not exist, they actually revel in it. Nobody should , and won't I'm sure , ever let them forget that we don't recognise their achievements.
It must be the tip of the iceberg, other teams and companies must have used them vigorously, the Hun never thought them up, they must have been advised. Surely the advisers and recipients of the free money must be sought and asked to cough up. Football wise , it really is a case of we must move on, otherwise we will still be getting our knickers in a twist for the next ten years again, and trust me , nothing of any consequence will happen, the past is in the past.
I promise, I always dreamt that when we won the cup, it would be against them , with a last minute winner . I got my dream , that's how I deal with them still being around.

Yep, the factw as that is appeared to be a loophole rather than an illegal act. However it was pushed to the limits and totally abused, which people should have known would pose risks. But the SPL/SFA or whoever having seen der hun almost extinct will not want to go through all that again. Title stripping, which should be happening, wont, because apart from all the obvious implications it could start a precedence. We await to see if numerous clubs down south will now have the tax man chapping. The English football authorities would have a nightmare if they had to unscramble all the possible permutations should all these clubs be punished in the same way.

We do have to face the fact that from the outside...and investors in the game, they see celtic and rangers as the main commodities in Scotland. We would all hope for a more competitive league without them, but we would have to see a huge increase in crowds over all clubs for TV companies to be interested. SPL also want to see competitive clubs in Europe, and would question whether other clubs could provide this in the long term. For most of us we would probably be happy with a league without the big 2, but we would do so at a price of alienation from the rest of the football world, I mean can you really see the likes of Doncaster being able to sell the game without his pet poodles, or have the initiative to bring an exciting new league which would blood youngsters and also bring enough money to the game for us to buy competitive experienced players?

Nope Tayside has a point, there will be no more action taken and the hun being made to start again in the 2nd division was probably the best we could have expected. However the interest in all the side shows and drama which has unfolded over the last few years has also brought back significant crowds to Hibs and Hearts, and with that Aberdeen fans I am sure will be turning out in greater numbers. Perhaps this is the most competitive period we will see for a long time

**Smurf** · 06-07-17, 09:42

Originally Posted by NW

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RP should show integrity and resign from SFA

Thinking likewise....

**Beagle** · 06-07-17, 09:42

Throughout this saga Celtc have only sought to gain the tainted titles for themselves. It's only about them having the most and getting one over on the Huns. They're as myopic as the other arse cheek. If you ever look on either of their sites everything is in reference to the other. The rest of the clubs may as well not exist. Celtc are not on some heroic crusade on behalf of Scottish football.

Also, the SFA & SPFL's hope of burying their heads in the sand makes me wonder how many of the blazers were/are up to their necks in it along with the Huns or either happy/paid off to turn a blind eye. This is where any journalistic investigations (outwith the Scottish MSM bubble) should be focussing rather than the mock outrage against Rangers that everyone knows will be off the back pages within a week.

**Zellviren** · 06-07-17, 09:46

For me, the bottom line is this:

- Rangers 2012 won a number of trophies, between the years stated, by virtue of avoiding tax.
- This was done to provide a sporting advantage, as stated by "Mr. Black" (whom we assume to be Sir David Murray).
- Financial doping is cheating and, as such, any titles won in this period was done so fraudulently.
- Rangers 2012 should be stripped of all domestic titles won in that period immediately.
- Rangers post 2012 should have stars removed from the badge, unless they are held accountable for these crimes.

It's as simple as that. If the new club isn't held accountable, then the governing bodies need to accept that it's a new. $#@!ing. Club. They've won nothing, and should not be allowed to argue that they have. If the club has continued, then it should be liable for the tax that wasn't paid. There's no other reasonable explanation. I, like a poster above (I forget who, I'm sorry), don't think we should be giving titles to anyone else - the argument could be made that a cup could have been won by anyone Rangers beat on the way to the final.

But the titles need stripped, as they would be in any other sport and, indeed, for this sport in any other country.

For me, however, it's more insidious than this.

What the governing bodies are actually saying, in their refusal to punish Rangers 2012, is that the emotional fragility of their fans is more important than the integrity of the entire Scottish game.

Stripping titles requires no lawyers, and it's the only reasonable approach. It does nothing to the current incarnation of the club, impacts their future in no way, and would only anger the type of people who aren't interested in sporting integrity. Failing to do this is basically saying that Rangers are more important than the rest of the Scottish game, and I just cannot see how Hibs, or any other Scottish club, could possibly be willing to accept this judgement without kicking up an almighty stink.

The time to sort this out is now. The perversion at the top of our game that prioritises one club needs to be addressed, and this is the time to do it.

If we don't... Well, we're basically flipping the bird to every supporter in the country and telling them we don't care about sporting integrity. We become just as culpable as the SFA/SPFL.

**Gunnerhibby** · 06-07-17, 10:40

Originally Posted by Zellviren

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For me, the bottom line is this:

- Rangers 2012 won a number of trophies, between the years stated, by virtue of avoiding tax.
- This was done to provide a sporting advantage, as stated by "Mr. Black" (whom we assume to be Sir David Murray).
- Financial doping is cheating and, as such, any titles won in this period was done so fraudulently.
- Rangers 2012 should be stripped of all domestic titles won in that period immediately.
- Rangers post 2012 should have stars removed from the badge, unless they are held accountable for these crimes.

It's as simple as that. If the new club isn't held accountable, then the governing bodies need to accept that it's a new. $#@!ing. Club. They've won nothing, and should not be allowed to argue that they have. If the club has continued, then it should be liable for the tax that wasn't paid. There's no other reasonable explanation. I, like a poster above (I forget who, I'm sorry), don't think we should be giving titles to anyone else - the argument could be made that a cup could have been won by anyone Rangers beat on the way to the final.

But the titles need stripped, as they would be in any other sport and, indeed, for this sport in any other country.

For me, however, it's more insidious than this.

What the governing bodies are actually saying, in their refusal to punish Rangers 2012, is that the emotional fragility of their fans is more important than the integrity of the entire Scottish game.

Stripping titles requires no lawyers, and it's the only reasonable approach. It does nothing to the current incarnation of the club, impacts their future in no way, and would only anger the type of people who aren't interested in sporting integrity. Failing to do this is basically saying that Rangers are more important than the rest of the Scottish game, and I just cannot see how Hibs, or any other Scottish club, could possibly be willing to accept this judgement without kicking up an almighty stink.

The time to sort this out is now. The perversion at the top of our game that prioritises one club needs to be addressed, and this is the time to do it.

If we don't... Well, we're basically flipping the bird to every supporter in the country and telling them we don't care about sporting integrity. We become just as culpable as the SFA/SPFL.

You are indeed correct re the awarding of titles/cups, and to be fair to the SDBs, I dont think they are looking to 'claim' them either. More that they want them dispunged, and that brings both their title tallies closer. But thats their agenda, and fans of every otherclub shoukd be looking at the 'sporting integrity' angle. Cheating is cheating, which ever way you roll it up, and in other sports, titles have been stripped even years later. This is what should happen with The Huns, they should not be allowed to claim those 'wins'.

**Zellviren** · 06-07-17, 10:46

Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby

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You are indeed correct re the awarding of titles/cups, and to be fair to the SDBs, I dont think they are looking to 'claim' them either. More that they want them dispunged, and that brings both their title tallies closer. But thats their agenda, and fans of every otherclub shoukd be looking at the 'sporting integrity' angle. Cheating is cheating, which ever way you roll it up, and in other sports, titles have been stripped even years later. This is what should happen with The Huns, they should not be allowed to claim those 'wins'.

Aye. Whatever the Celtic intent, it doesn't matter.

The facts are inarguable, and the governing bodies have only one course of action to take. Failure to do so throws our entire game into disrepute, and all of the other clubs have to remind them of that. I'm pretty sure that a club-based representation, from the other institutions in Scotland (like us), could be made to UEFA. That's the route I'd look at taking.

**Green Sleeves** · 06-07-17, 11:30

Originally Posted by 1875

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I want us and other clubs to dance on the cheating hun $#@!s grave.

An important part of the truth & reconciliation process in Scottish football is booting $#@! out of the Huns while they're on the floor.

Hibs needs to take a strong stand against the corrupt SFA. Strip their titles and their trophies.

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**Gunnerhibby** · 06-07-17, 11:50

Originally Posted by Zellviren

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Aye. Whatever the Celtic intent, it doesn't matter.

The facts are inarguable, and the governing bodies have only one course of action to take. Failure to do so throws our entire game into disrepute, and all of the other clubs have to remind them of that. I'm pretty sure that a club-based representation, from the other institutions in Scotland (like us), could be made to UEFA. That's the route I'd look at taking.

I would definitely look at the EUFA route, as this has a direct influence on the integrity of their European competitions. Clubs were denied the opportunity to play in Champions League, EUFA Cup and Europa League competitions because of the illegal actions of a member club.
Sanctions could be imposed on the SFA if EUFA dont think they have carried out a complete and fair investigation on this

**Sir Shrink** · 06-07-17, 11:57

Other than the statement put out by the Smellies, there has been a deafening silence from every other club.
Not a peep.
It’s quite clear, to me anyway, that there is no appetite from anyone OTHER than the fans to re-visit the cheating and the consequences thereof.
The SFA obviously knew that the case was likely to be won by the taxman and therefore had the foresight to have prepared a response; no doubt agreed with ALL relevant parties (although presumably not by email this time) which quickly set out their position.
The ‘advice’ of an independent counsel is neither here nor there. Having twice had knowledge of engaging such an expert through work, I put no faith at all in the ‘independent advice’ or the carefully framed ‘opinion’.

Unless there is sufficient clamour from the fans, nothing will happen.

It’s the way it is.

**Fritz** · 06-07-17, 12:11

http://www.thenational.scot/news/153...er/?ref=twtrec

**bigmanandy** · 06-07-17, 14:19

And the new huns are still raking up more debts in there pursuit of titles etc, shameful from silent corrupt Scottish Football, to think I was cheated put of season ticket money during that time, never again.