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Thread: Our squad as it stands.

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    I think 5 short

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    Have no fear...it's now July, things will start to motor on the signing front.

    With a few exceptions hardly anything happens on the football world in June, except if there is a World Cup or Euros taking place...it's the down tools month of the year when players, CEO's, Players, agents etc are on holiday. Player contracts tend to end on 30th June. Don't expect half a dozen signings in the week ahead but I'm sure we will start to see some significant progress.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

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    There are some highly rated youngsters who might step up from the development squad. If they're good enough, they're old enough. I wouldn't complain about the lack of signings if some of these development players give the team the spark and firepower needed.
    'Live Long and Prosper........unless you're a Gunt' - said Mr Spock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
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    There are some highly rated youngsters who might step up from the development squad. If they're good enough, they're old enough. I wouldn't complain about the lack of signings if some of these development players give the team the spark and firepower needed.
    I agree with what you are saying, the problem is that it is such a massive step up from Development league football to first team premier league football. Lennon said last season that he would have had Oli Shaw in the first team squad if he hadn't been loaned out to Stenhousemuir so that would lead you to conclude that he will be in or around the first team this season coming. Shaw has great potential but needs to bulk up a bit and become physically stronger. Scott Martin and Callum Crane really do need to make the breakthrough next season if they are ever going to do it.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    I agree with what you are saying, the problem is that it is such a massive step up from Development league football to first team premier league football. Lennon said last season that he would have had Oli Shaw in the first team squad if he hadn't been loaned out to Stenhousemuir so that would lead you to conclude that he will be in or around the first team this season coming. Shaw has great potential but needs to bulk up a bit and become physically stronger. Scott Martin and Callum Crane really do need to make the breakthrough next season if they are ever going to do it.
    It's a big step up alright but they've got to get the chance sometime. I think we'll go with experience initially until it looks like we've consolidated in the premiership and then blood the youngsters. The January window might be quite lean.
    'Live Long and Prosper........unless you're a Gunt' - said Mr Spock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
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    It's a big step up alright but they've got to get the chance sometime. I think we'll go with experience initially until it looks like we've consolidated in the premiership and then blood the youngsters. The January window might be quite lean.
    Last season would have been ideal to give them time to bed into the team but we never took a stong enough hold on the league not to play our best 11 available. Said the same about JC in his first season, had he been shipped out on loan to the championship for a few months then he could have come back to the premiership with a bit more experience and banged in a few much needed goals at that time.

    We have some players at the age where playing in the development squad is not helping their progress and should either be given a chance if good enough or move on for their own careers. Oli Shaw is sounding like a really good prospect.

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    People talking about youngsters fills me with dread, it really does.

    It's not that I don't think we should be bringing through our own talent. I absolutely do and, further, believe it should be the soul of every club. In fact, I think a club's long term success (certainly at this level) probably depends upon it away from Parkhead. But our last experience of "blooding youngsters" was to throw them into a team in freefall, hope they could turn around the performances of senior players, and their confidence was obliterated when they couldn't do it and felt the fans had turned on them personally.

    Now I know that nobody's suggesting a repeat of Butcher's version of bringing through young talent. That's clear. But I reckon youngsters do much better when they're put into a relatively settled team, and are somewhat protected by the senior players who are more well established. From middle to front that's not where we are yet, and particularly up front.

    Don't forget; our biggest youngster breakthrough in recent times was practically unique, other than at Old Trafford.

    We can't expect it again.

  8. #58
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    It is difficult to get balance of young and experience. You have sayings like 'we need good hardened time served players to get us out of the championship ' which in the end we did at a canter to be honest. Then to go back to the Premiership without a better quality 'hardened time served professionals ' could (and probably would) be a very big risk. Remember all the players have been used to championship football for 3 seasons. Yes we have played a fair amount of premiership clubs along the way but I am sure it was easy for the players to get up for those games to show people what they could do. However having those games week in and week out is a different matter. So players of Whits experience is vital. Just to have that type of player at training day in, day out to provide the experience, the work ethic would be good for the squad as a whole. We need a good solid first season return to the premiership. Let's put things into prospective , if you were a young, upcoming, dynamic players then you are going to be sought by bigger clubs that could take a gamble on you. We really can't gamble, we need to stay in the premership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanggtth View Post
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    It is difficult to get balance of young and experience. You have sayings like 'we need good hardened time served players to get us out of the championship ' which in the end we did at a canter to be honest. Then to go back to the Premiership without a better quality 'hardened time served professionals ' could (and probably would) be a very big risk. Remember all the players have been used to championship football for 3 seasons. Yes we have played a fair amount of premiership clubs along the way but I am sure it was easy for the players to get up for those games to show people what they could do. However having those games week in and week out is a different matter. So players of Whits experience is vital. Just to have that type of player at training day in, day out to provide the experience, the work ethic would be good for the squad as a whole. We need a good solid first season return to the premiership. Let's put things into prospective , if you were a young, upcoming, dynamic players then you are going to be sought by bigger clubs that could take a gamble on you. We really can't gamble, we need to stay in the premership.
    Good and accurate post IMO..

    Shaw is a real talent IMO and will definitely get his chance at some stage in the season ahead but his introduction into the first team has to be done carefully and properly. One or two others like Martin and Crane possibly come into the same category. However the managers job is to win matches and that task will be more difficult next season than it has been for the last three seasons. Experience is going to be vital for a team coming up to the top league after an absence of 3 years and Lennon is intelligent enough to know this.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

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    I think blooding youngsters has become pretty much impossible. The stakes are so high that risk has to be averted. A poor sequence of results brought about by inconsistency can have horrendously severe consequences and implications as we found out three years ago. The only youngsters that will break through are those that are truly exceptional. They need to be of a standard to do the job of a man. Sadly we've had too few of those in recent years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EA2007 View Post
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    Mackay-Steven and Henderson in. McGinn out (loaned back potentially). Source? .net poster with previous.
    Whittaker to offer full back cover and midfield.

    Two forwards.

    Probably as good as it will get?
    I am hearing different which I posted on SITK section, SJM to them Hendo on a permanent deal plus cash and GMS on loan. Certainly nothing about SJM being loaned back to us. Not heard anything about Whitaker either but @Smurf on here has so that is good enough for me, I wish we went for someone younger like the lad who was on loan at Dumbarton from Raith, scores goals and creates them also and wouldn't cost us much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    Good and accurate post IMO..

    Shaw is a real talent IMO and will definitely get his chance at some stage in the season ahead but his introduction into the first team has to be done carefully and properly. One or two others like Martin and Crane possibly come into the same category. However the managers job is to win matches and that task will be more difficult next season than it has been for the last three seasons. Experience is going to be vital for a team coming up to the top league after an absence of 3 years and Lennon is intelligent enough to know this.
    I don't think Shaw is ready for the step up at the moment mate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    I think blooding youngsters has become pretty much impossible. The stakes are so high that risk has to be averted. A poor sequence of results brought about by inconsistency can have horrendously severe consequences and implications as we found out three years ago.
    While I don't think it's impossible, there's no doubt that our game makes it laughably difficult.

    The bottom line is that Scottish football is so cut-throat that no manager will put his job on the line blooding youngsters, when there are always bargain-basement loan signings around that you can fill out your squad with and are, typically, much less of a risk.

    Not only does this have a knock-on impact for clubs financially, because they're pouring money down the drain in order to beat the drop, but it also has an impact on our national side when the lifesblood of its development sits on benches or in B-teams.

    The SFA, in my view, REALLY has to get a grip of this. It's time to reform the game in ways that make bringing through the next generation of Scots a real option, rather than a desperate last resort that sets them up for failure.

    Sadly, we just don't have the people in charge with the vision or guts to do it.

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    RE; this debate about bring through youngsters. The common factor in all of this discussion is the disasterous decision to scrap the SPL Reserve League a number of years ago. Young players can never develop properly unless they are tested against seasoned pros in a competitive environment. This is why Hibs and other clubs have to loan out so many youngsters. The main reasons this league was scrapped was that too many clubs simply couldn't afford to run a reserve team, plus the OF place bringing through young players very low in their list of priorities. IMO we must get the reserve league up and running again one way or another.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    RE; this debate about bring through youngsters. The common factor in all of this discussion is the disasterous decision to scrap the SPL Reserve League a number of years ago. Young players can never develop properly unless they are tested against seasoned pros in a competitive environment. This is why Hibs and other clubs have to loan out so many youngsters. The main reasons this league was scrapped was that too many clubs simply couldn't afford to run a reserve team, plus the OF place bringing through young players very low in their list of priorities. IMO we must get the reserve league up and running again one way or another.
    I'm sure it's coming back, couple months ago some changes were put forward. I'll try find it soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    RE; this debate about bring through youngsters. The common factor in all of this discussion is the disasterous decision to scrap the SPL Reserve League a number of years ago. Young players can never develop properly unless they are tested against seasoned pros in a competitive environment. This is why Hibs and other clubs have to loan out so many youngsters. The main reasons this league was scrapped was that too many clubs simply couldn't afford to run a reserve team, plus the OF place bringing through young players very low in their list of priorities. IMO we must get the reserve league up and running again one way or another.
    I wouldn't generalise the OF as not prioritising youth. Celtic are the only club in the Scotland comfortable enough to gamble with giving youngsters a go. Tierney & McGregor have benefited as a result.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    While I don't think it's impossible, there's no doubt that our game makes it laughably difficult.

    The bottom line is that Scottish football is so cut-throat that no manager will put his job on the line blooding youngsters, when there are always bargain-basement loan signings around that you can fill out your squad with and are, typically, much less of a risk.

    Not only does this have a knock-on impact for clubs financially, because they're pouring money down the drain in order to beat the drop, but it also has an impact on our national side when the lifesblood of its development sits on benches or in B-teams.

    The SFA, in my view, REALLY has to get a grip of this. It's time to reform the game in ways that make bringing through the next generation of Scots a real option, rather than a desperate last resort that sets them up for failure.

    Sadly, we just don't have the people in charge with the vision or guts to do it.
    Spot on assessment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HibeeZab View Post
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    I wouldn't generalise the OF as not prioritising youth. Celtic are the only club in the Scotland comfortable enough to gamble with giving youngsters a go. Tierney & McGregor have benefited as a result.
    Your post prompted this response:

    Are we blooding enough youngsters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Your post prompted this response:

    Are we blooding enough youngsters?
    I'll check it out 👍
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Spot on assessment.
    Apparently players from countries like Croatia have a pathway developed in conjunction between the national fa and the club. In Scotland it seems club is king, and we seem to lag behind other similar sized countries


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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple & Green View Post
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    Apparently players from countries like Croatia have a pathway developed in conjunction between the national fa and the club. In Scotland it seems club is king, and we seem to lag behind other similar sized countries


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    In Scotland two clubs are king.

    Everything revolves around the Smellies and the The Huns I'm afraid.
    I kinda doubt that will change in my lifetime, but hopefully some Bouncers will see it come to pass.
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