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Thread: downing st announcement 11.15....

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    downing st announcement 11.15....

    tick tock...

    general election?

    dead royal?

    war with north korea?

    new boden catalogue?
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    Hibs won the league

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    A General Election for the 8th of June.

    It's just absolutely $#@!ing mental.

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    Should be intresting.

    Im guesing shes doing it now as she knows labour have no chance of winning.

    Also wonder if the SNP will continue to dominate scotland.

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    the radio tailed off before the end - did she mention the new boden catalogue?

    ok

    q1.... mcagarry and Michelle Thomson will they stand on an SNP ticket?
    q2.... carmichael was due to resign - will that still happen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrenSQH View Post
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    Should be intresting.

    Im guesing shes doing it now as she knows labour have no chance of winning.

    Also wonder if the SNP will continue to dominate scotland.
    ...or who though? tories? lib dem? sco labour? greens?
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    Linux

    she's taking the gamble to blow the SNP/Indy card.
    She knows Labour are still not strong enough in Englandshire, the only other hand she is up against is the SNP breaking up the UK.
    It gives her the chance to say to others that she has the mandate for brexit, as the elected PM, so she can get away with anything she/Tories throw at people..

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    She would have been mental to not have.

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    SNP can lose 20MPs and still have a cast iron mandate for indyref2

    ...wonder if mhari black will stand - hope she does.

    ...wonder if labour will recharge the deposed 2015MPs - murphy, curran, cathy jamieson, Alexander

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    She would have been mental to not have.
    agree - would've have preferred it before the article 50 trigger though.
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    or maybe she really doesnt have a clue, and wants Corbyn to take us thru brexit

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    Smart Tory move. Guaranteed to be in power to sort the Brexit fallout if it turns out to be a complete $#@!show.

    Only risk is emboldening the Indy2 cause, but I don't think they actually care.

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    ....also stops the election spending scandal becoming a thing....
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    Puts an end to the 1%er attempts to delegitimise Brexit and bags a thumping majority. Downside for her will be likelihood of corbyn being replaced. Then again he may choose to stay on anyway in which case labour must surely split - another win from May's point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby View Post
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    or maybe she really doesnt have a clue, and wants Corbyn to take us thru brexit
    There's as much chance of that as The Gunts winning a few games this season.

    I think she's concluded she needs this GE because:

    1, The polling suggests she's going to get an easy win over Labour although there's a challenge from the Lib Dems in south of England seats.

    2, There's a genuine threat to her existing small mandate from ongoing police investigations into over spend in key seat wins two years ago that could have generated by elections meaning she could lose her majority.

    3, In key Brexit negotiations it would have weakened her hand facing the GE 2020 doing so having secured a mandate will increase her hand (which isn't as weak as some like to make out).

    4, It's a chance for her to get a mandate on her domestic policies so different from Cameron such as Grammar Schools.

    5, She can pretty much finish Labour although she has handed the Lib Dems a lifeline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    There's as much chance of that as The Gunts winning a few games this season.

    I think she's concluded she needs this GE because:

    1, The polling suggests she's going to get an easy win over Labour although there's a challenge from the Lib Dems in south of England seats.

    2, There's a genuine threat to her existing small mandate from ongoing police investigations into over spend in key seat wins two years ago that could have generated by elections meaning she could lose her majority.

    3, In key Brexit negotiations it would have weakened her hand facing the GE 2020 doing so having secured a mandate will increase her hand (which isn't as weak as some like to make out).

    4, It's a chance for her to get a mandate on her domestic policies so different from Cameron such as Grammar Schools.

    5, She can pretty much finish Labour although she has handed the Lib Dems a lifeline.
    6. - tory election scandal outcome due shortly...coming days
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
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    6. - tory election scandal outcome due shortly...coming days
    That was my point 2 above. 😉

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    That was my point 2 above. 😉
    ha - read that twice and missed it...what a fud i am sometimes .... only sometimes mind.

    .... candidate lists will make interesting reading in scotland - would previous big hitters come out of retirement?

    ...will murray stand behind corbyn on nukes and indyref and brexit?

    ... will carmichael and mundel extend 800 seat majorities

    ... will mcgarry and thomson stand.

    could see davidson standing as MP for edinburgh central?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
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    could see davidson standing as MP for edinburgh central?
    A cert imo. And becoming Scottish Sec after Mundell is defeated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    A cert imo. And becoming Scottish Sec after Mundell is defeated.
    who would she be up against?

    murdo fraser too?


    Deidre Brock Edinburgh North & Leith

    Joanna Cherry Edinburgh South West

    Ian Murray Edinburgh South

    Tommy Sheppard Edinburgh East

    Michelle Thomson Edinburgh West
    ironically ian murrays seat was the old tory one and prob suit RD best? rifkinds - is that right?
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    follow the programme archive on twitter: http://twitter.com/hibsbollah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
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    who would she be up against?

    murdo fraser too?




    ironically ian murrays seat was the old tory one and prob suit RD best? rifkinds - is that right?
    Rifkind was my MP back in the day - it was "Pentlands". We named our Supporters Branch after him - The Pentland Branch.


    It was abolished and replaced with Edin South and Edin S'West.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
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    who would she be up against?

    murdo fraser too?




    ironically ian murrays seat was the old tory one and prob suit RD best? rifkinds - is that right?
    Assume SNP will be looking to replace Thomson...she's lost the party whip I think? Only other option would be Murray, but that's not realistic I think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Assume SNP will be looking to replace Thomson...she's lost the party whip I think? Only other option would be Murray, but that's not realistic I think?
    they where expecting to give Thomson the whip back recently
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby View Post
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    she's taking the gamble to blow the SNP/Indy card.
    She knows Labour are still not strong enough in Englandshire, the only other hand she is up against is the SNP breaking up the UK.
    It gives her the chance to say to others that she has the mandate for brexit, as the elected PM, so she can get away with anything she/Tories throw at people..
    100%.

    The Tories have literally taken Labour apart. Almost to extinction.... now those darn SNP sweaty socks!

    ...the carte blanche for them to do as they wish.

    oh dear!

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    Feel like we are in a re-run of the 80s. Nuclear stand off and a miserable Tory boot in 10 Downing Street.


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    in an alternative reality corbyn, sturgeon and whoever it is that leads the libdems would agree a progressive alliance and only field one candidate per seat on a ticket of

    1) soft brexit
    2) federalism - all but defence and central bank (and maybe one or 2 minor things)
    3) electoral reform
    and
    4) a new GE post Brexit

    that'd obviously kill Scottish labour but it'd put the needs of the countries first and would possibly have a real chance (no polling analysis done on my part)

    obviously wont happen and it'll be 5 more years of tory ****s
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun ainm View Post
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    in an alternative reality corbyn, sturgeon and whoever it is that leads the libdems would agree a progressive alliance and only field one candidate per seat on a ticket of

    1) soft brexit
    2) federalism - all but defence and central bank (and maybe one or 2 minor things)
    3) electoral reform
    and
    4) a new GE post Brexit

    that'd obviously kill Scottish labour but it'd put the needs of the countries first and would possibly have a real chance (no polling analysis done on my part)

    obviously wont happen and it'll be 5 more years of tory ****s
    Labour and the libdems are irrelevant in Scotland, elsewhere the question is whether there enough upper class people, captains of global capitalism and public sector managerial grades to make such an alliance viable.

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    The Torys have a majority of around 12 to 17.

    The Tory election expenses scandal could have seen up to 20 seats have a revote in the not to distant future depending on the courts.

    Until now not much has been made of this in the media so much of the electorate aren't aware of how serious this is and what a shower of cheating $#@!s the Torys really are. (Along with all their other 'crimes'!!!!)

    I've not heard much mention in the Commons either.

    If I was the other parties I'd vote against the snap election tomorrow so that the Tory dishonesty would actually catch up with them in the full glare of the media. I'd use the upcoming Tory election expenses scandal as the reason for doing so. Something along the lines of allowing justice to run its course.

    I honestly can't see what the benefit to any of the other parties actually is apart from the Libdems who were slaughtered in the last election.

    The SNP already have Scotland tucked up in bed.

    Labour astonishingly are backing the Torys (again) tomorrow despite being in disarray and, despite this obviously being all about the EU old Jezza is already wittering on about fighting on a domestic UK ticket, they could well end up in the morgue.

    A knock back would leave the Tories having to either have a vote of no confidence in themselves or faff about trying to get the 5 year rule repealed and new legislation introduced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    Labour and the libdems are irrelevant in Scotland, elsewhere the question is whether there enough upper class people plus public sector managerial grades to make such an alliance viable.
    I think in Scotland there could be agreement that we maintain the status quo in seats held and the snp would go against Mundell in Dumfrieshire - if the alliance held that'd easily remove all the tories from Scotland

    re your characterisation of the demographic don't think its a simple as that M - by that logic would you vote Tory if you lived south of the border? clearly the tertms of the coalition would need more clearly defined and its finite nature ensured but this seems about the only hope for the UK and England in particular
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun ainm View Post
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    in an alternative reality corbyn, sturgeon and whoever it is that leads the libdems would agree a progressive alliance and only field one candidate per seat on a ticket of

    1) soft brexit
    2) federalism - all but defence and central bank (and maybe one or 2 minor things)
    3) electoral reform
    and
    4) a new GE post Brexit

    that'd obviously kill Scottish labour but it'd put the needs of the countries first and would possibly have a real chance (no polling analysis done on my part)

    obviously wont happen and it'll be 5 more years of tory ****s
    You'd have my vote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    Until now not much has been made of this in the media
    All exposed thanks to the excellent Michael Crick on CH4 News.

    Labour and others pretty silent because they are just as bad....

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    I think there will be surge in support for the Lib Dems...
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun ainm View Post
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    I think in Scotland there could be agreement that we maintain the status quo in seats held and the snp would go against Mundell in Dumfrieshire - if the alliance held that'd easily remove all the tories from Scotland

    re your characterisation of the demographic don't think its a simple as that M - by that logic would you vote Tory if you lived south of the border? clearly the tertms of the coalition would need more clearly defined and its finite nature ensured but this seems about the only hope for the UK and England in particular
    For the millionth time, I voted remain. However, had I voted leave, would I vote Tory versus the upper middle class left putting out an all star team to defend the interests of the 1% and global capitalism? Damn right I would. In the privacy of the voting booth, perhaps Corbyn himself would do likewise. In fact I may be tempted anyway, in the name of defending democracy from such oligarchic manoeuvring. The SNP will certainly go down in my eyes if they get in hock with such a thing.

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    May won't be doing any televised debates apparently. Clearly $#@!eing it


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    Quote Originally Posted by broonieboy View Post
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    May won't be doing any televised debates apparently. Clearly $#@!eing it


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    She's not a good orator at all. Then again neither is Jezza. The guy who runs the libdems doesn't strike me as such either, though I can't remember whether I've heard him give a speech. It's a pity we're missing out on what would surely have been the most toe curling leadership debates of recent memory.

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    Feart from Sturgeon.


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    Quote Originally Posted by broonieboy View Post
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    Feart from Sturgeon.


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    Sturgeon would absolutely stroll such a contest. By far the best politician in the U.K., best speaker among the leaders (and would be also amongst a much stronger peer group) and in an unassailable rhetorical position given the snp's political alchemy of getting credit for all the good stuff and never getting called on the tough stuff until Indy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Shrink View Post
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    Rifkind was my MP back in the day - it was "Pentlands". We named our Supporters Branch after him - The Pentland Branch.


    It was abolished and replaced with Edin South and Edin S'West
    .
    The constituency and not the Supporters Branch that is

    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    For the millionth time, I voted remain. However, had I voted leave, would I vote Tory versus the upper middle class left putting out an all star team to defend the interests of the 1% and global capitalism? Damn right I would. In the privacy of the voting booth, perhaps Corbyn himself would do likewise. In fact I may be tempted anyway, in the name of defending democracy from such oligarchic manoeuvring. The SNP will certainly go down in my eyes if they get in hock with such a thing.
    they'd go up in mine but heyho if it takes the 1% and global capitalism to stop cuts to the poorest and most vulnerable in our society and prevents the marketisation of our health service, then i guess i must be in their gang - your ridiculous characterisation is so overblown its er ridiculous despite there being a smidgen of a genuine point there.

    doesnt matter as clearly we both know its not gonna happen
    Last edited by gun ainm; 19-04-17 at 12:55.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gun ainm View Post
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    they'd go up in mine but heyho if it takes the 1% and global capitalism to stop cuts to the poorest and most vulnerable in out health service and prevent marketisation of our health then i guess i must be in their gang - you're ridiculous characterisation is so overblown its er ridiculous despite their being a smidgen of a genuine point there.

    doesnt matter as clearly we both know its not gonna happen
    If you want to talk about ridiculous, then the endless referencing of our somewhat average and inefficient health service is ridiculous, especially as it never ever does anything than absorb more money. If you want to talk ridiculous then claiming the moral high ground from slashing people's earning power and stability in employment, and then preaching about the benefits you're going to pay them, is ridiculous.

    Your 'progressive' alliance would further the interests of global capitalism and the bureaucrat class that manages the country on its behalf - who to boot agitate for an evermore extreme agenda of social liberalism / chaos which is the biggest driver of poverty after globalism (and possibly before it) and who find virtue in throwing other people's money at the damage. This lovely ideological marriage already broken the western world in 2008, but now we're to double down?

    Vote for your class interest if you will, but please gies peace with the pretences to virtue. Calling for the middle class left to gang up to try and thwart the only meaningful blow ever landed on global capitalism? Aye on you go Bakunin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ps it's this kind of thing that is raising up the Trumps, Le Pens et al. The progressive Versailles is going to fall, but sadly and as always, we'll all get caught in the crossfire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    If you want to talk about ridiculous, then the endless referencing of our somewhat average and inefficient health service is ridiculous, especially as it never ever does anything than absorb more money. If you want to talk ridiculous then claiming the moral high ground from slashing people's earning power and stability in employment, and then preaching about the benefits you're going to pay them, is ridiculous.

    Your 'progressive' alliance would further the interests of global capitalism and the bureaucrat class that manages the country on its behalf - who to boot agitate for an evermore extreme agenda of social liberalism / chaos which is the biggest driver of poverty after globalism (and possibly before it) and who find virtue in throwing other people's money at the damage. This lovely ideological marriage already broken the western world in 2008, but now we're to double down?

    Vote for your class interest if you will, but please gies peace with the pretences to virtue. Calling for the middle class left to gang up to try and thwart the only meaningful blow ever landed on global capitalism? Aye on you go Bakunin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ps it's this kind of thing that is raising up the Trumps, Le Pens et al. The progressive Versailles is going to fall, but sadly and as always, we'll all get caught in the crossfire.
    seems to me this isn't about principles or ideals - its a hard pragmatic choice between an increasingly right wing tory government that are actively damaging the lives of the most vulnerable in our society while enriching the already wealthy or...... something else. I don't think the current something else has a hope of winning anything, so my proposal would be to try and make the best of a bad lot. If you honestly think the tories will deliver a blow to global capitalism then respectfully you're in cloud feckin cuckoo land. Thus the ridicule of your characterisation. aye on you go Franco but save us the platitudes about stickin it to the man ;P

    ps seems like Sturgeon broadly agrees with me although she doesn't go so far as to advocate an electoral pact https://www.commonspace.scot/article...t-tories-power - over to the other two

    pps Mason now calling for a coalition - https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...op-hard-brexit

    still no gonna happen
    Last edited by gun ainm; 19-04-17 at 13:37.
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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    GE : 2015-2017-2022
    ScoGovt : 2016-2021

    will the nature of scottish elections change ? having the order the otherway round
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    Paul Mason on Newsnight last night predicting a Labour win. I suspect he's on something very strong...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Paul Mason on Newsnight last night predicting a Labour win. I suspect he's on something very strong...
    didn't see it Smurf - but would seem at odds with his view in today's guardian (linked above)

    'Labour does not need to start breast-beating about a majority government. It should instead promise to lead a coalition at Westminster to halt hard Brexit, promote accountability and reset the political process – with a “normal” election in spring 2019 to ratify any deal the incoming government does'
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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    thought corbyn was very strong on FMQs.... why doesn't england like him? or why is the perception that england doesn't like him?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
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    thought corbyn was very strong on FMQs.... why doesn't england like him? or why is the perception that england doesn't like him?
    To answer that you have to ask yourself;
    Is he a jingoistic, rule britannia, foreigner and Scots hating racist $#@!wit?

    If you answer no to those questions, then you have your answer to your original question.
    'Live Long and Prosper........unless you're a Gunt' - said Mr Spock

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    Will the lib dems rule out a tory coalition?

    I see jo swinson is going to stand in East Dunbartonshire. ... but not so long ago folk there vote her in as a lib dem and found they where in a tory lib dem coalition.

    If the lib dems rule out a coalition it would give their scottish candidates more of a chance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gun ainm View Post
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    seems to me this isn't about principles or ideals - its a hard pragmatic choice between an increasingly right wing tory government that are actively damaging the lives of the most vulnerable in our society while enriching the already wealthy or...... something else. I don't think the current something else has a hope of winning anything, so my proposal would be to try and make the best of a bad lot. If you honestly think the tories will deliver a blow to global capitalism then respectfully you're in cloud feckin cuckoo land. Thus the ridicule of your characterisation. aye on you go Franco but save us the platitudes about stickin it to the man ;P

    ps seems like Sturgeon broadly agrees with me although she doesn't go so far as to advocate an electoral pact https://www.commonspace.scot/article...t-tories-power - over to the other two

    pps Mason now calling for a coalition - https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...op-hard-brexit

    still no gonna happen
    There are indeed plenty global capitalists in Tory ranks and they are near indistinguishable from labour counterparts - as I've noted before, the principal dividing line I can see is that the tories represent the private sector middle class who favour reduced taxation and labour their public sector peers who favour more tax, as that's where they are paid from. It's no confidence that 'respectable' opposition to globalism has now shrunk to where taxes are levied (even though that's trying to be half pregnant).

    However, this is not about party politics; your proposal is specifically geared at contesting the one blow that has been landed on the neo liberalism you complain about. Even though I voted remain, I would not be happy to be party to that never mind actively wish for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ps R, if any such coalition was successful, it can't have escaped you that it would establish the blueprint for a post yes vote response?

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    There are indeed plenty global capitalists in Tory ranks and they are near indistinguishable from labour counterparts - as I've noted before, the principal dividing line I can see is that the tories represent the private sector middle class who favour reduced taxation and labour their public sector peers who favour more tax, as that's where they are paid from. It's no confidence that 'respectable' opposition to globalism has now shrunk to where taxes are levied (even though that's trying to be half pregnant).

    However, this is not about party politics; your proposal is specifically geared at contesting the one blow that has been landed on the neo liberalism you complain about. Even though I voted remain, I would not be happy to be party to that never mind actively wish for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ps R, if any such coalition was successful, it can't have escaped you that it would establish the blueprint for a post yes vote response?
    i don't want brexit reversed tho, dont know why you think that? true i don't want a hard right brexit, my pref is indy Scotland in EFTA. the whole thing's a shambles and its looking unlikely my pref will come about (soon). So if we're stuck in the UK ideally in this election we'd ask the parties to produce a manifesto on their approach to Brexit negotiations (since that wasnt really discussed pre ref) and vote on that basis. will we get that debate? will we feck that'd be too sensible. instead we're being asked to vote for a govt on the basis of gut feeling about who'd be better to lead negotations. thats $#@!e but if thats all i have I think a left coalition would be preferable to be honest. the election (clearly) is not about defeating or even challenging neo liberalism.
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun ainm View Post
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    i don't want brexit reversed tho, dont know why you think that? true i don't want a hard right brexit, my pref is indy Scotland in EFTA. the whole thing's a shambles and its looking unlikely my pref will come about (soon). So if we're stuck in the UK ideally in this election we'd ask the parties to produce a manifesto on their approach to Brexit negotiations (since that wasnt really discussed pre ref) and vote on that basis. will we get that debate? will we feck that'd be too sensible. instead we're being asked to vote for a govt on the basis of gut feeling about who'd be better to lead negotations. thats $#@!e but if thats all i have I think a left coalition would be preferable to be honest. the election (clearly) is not about defeating or even challenging neo liberalism.
    But this whole hard vs soft Brexit is a bit of an invention (let alone a 'hard right' one which I expect is pretty close to the hard left one) as well as an unplayable (deliberately so I suspect) hand in negotiations. It's a bit like post a yes vote, people challenging - as they will - hard vs soft independence; the latter basically federalism, for instance.

    I do agree with you that this is an opportunity for manifestos to answer the question in any case. If the soft Brexit parties win a cumulative majority they'll be able to force a soft Brexit without forming a coalition at election time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    But this whole hard vs soft Brexit is a bit of an invention (let alone a 'hard right' one which I expect is pretty close to the hard left one) as well as an unplayable (deliberately so I suspect) hand in negotiations. It's a bit like post a yes vote, people challenging - as they will - hard vs soft independence; the latter basically federalism, for instance.

    I do agree with you that this is an opportunity for manifestos to answer the question in any case. If the soft Brexit parties win a cumulative majority they'll be able to force a soft Brexit without forming a coalition at election time.
    hard (right) brexit approach to negotiations would have a different emphasis to a hard (left) brexit (which isnt an option on the ballot anyway - we'll see what corbyn says) - issues like workers rights, financial services, environment etc - thats my guess since no-one will tell us.

    anyway the lesson here is to clearly define what you mean by Brexit or independence before holding a vote - that way there can be no (or little) room for misconception.

    if lab/snp and liberals (who i think are wrong to seek a reversal) want to mitigate against the 'estimated' deal the tories will strike then they have to come up with an election strategy to deliver a majority - those 3 competing against each other and against the tories (i think ukip will implode) is bound to make a tory victory more likely in many marginal seats imo. only an arrangement would see a majority of seats for the rest (maybe)
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun ainm View Post
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    didn't see it Smurf - but would seem at odds with his view in today's guardian (linked above)

    'Labour does not need to start breast-beating about a majority government. It should instead promise to lead a coalition at Westminster to halt hard Brexit, promote accountability and reset the political process – with a “normal” election in spring 2019 to ratify any deal the incoming government does'
    edited - just watched it, he said no such thing - he said the tories could be beaten and then went on to make the case for coalition around a 'socially just' brexit
    "The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear"

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