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View Poll Results: CUP OR LEAGUE

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Thread: Cup vs league

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
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    a) Why are Cummings and McGinn "almost certain to leave if we go up"?

    b) If the Gunts can maintain that level of crowd, why can't we?

    c) Why, as appears to be the case, is your confident prediction that we'll return/regress to being the club of the ten years previous to relegation? Has nothing/no one at the club changed for the better, in your qualified opinion?

    I'm sorry, but while @Smurf and @Wannabehibee are in your camp, I think that's a lot of defeatist $#@!e. I find it baffling the amount of folk who sound like they'd actually RATHER stay in this fcukin league than go up and actually have a bash at getting bigger and better as a club.


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    a) they'll have done pretty much everything they can with Hibs and they'll want to earn more?

    b) Let's see what their crowds are like next season. But I know you don't really care about those beasts, neither do I.


    We're a club set up to win cups ( occasionally) we'll never win the top league, second best option is winning the Scottish cup.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    Our ambition as a club once we are promoted to the league we must always be in as the joint third biggest club in Scotland, is to replace Aberdeen as the biggest "challengers" to Celtic. IMO Hibs should aim for no less...ever. I repeat once again Hibs will shrink as a club the longer we stay in this league. The costs of running a club the size of Hibernian with all the overheads, infrastructure we have with a top range Training Centre at East Mains, plus staff costs etc cannot be sustained whilst we continue to be in the Scottish Championship. Sponsor money, TV money etc is in the top league and our ability to attract players of quality to come to play for Hibs will be much better if we are in the top league with derbies to play and matches against the Old Firm and Aberdeen. Our players will also be higher valued in the transfer market in the top league. The longer Hibs are in the Scottish Championship we will end up sinking and becoming a club like Dunfermline...a once great club reduced to a rump and stationed permanently in the second tier of the Scottish game with maybe a promotion every six or seven years if we are lucky.

    I will never accept the above scenario for Hibernian. As far as I am concerned Hibs are as big if not bigger a Scottish institution as Hearts or Aberdeen and they should always be up there with them and aim to be better than them. I cannot understand for the life of me how genuine Hibs supporters can ever accept this great pioneering club playing in this league. Hibs will win cups again but we must get out of this league now. Celtic by their sheer size, support base and buying power will dominate the game in Scotland for years to come. The Rangers will eventually challenge them again but it's going to take several years for that to happen. Hibs have everything in place to be great again...Aberdeen and Hearts don't, and as I say the Rangers will take a long time to get to the level they were years ago in their old guise under Murray and Smith ( I know they cheated and escaped proper punishment). Hibs can grow and become a club with 12 and eventually up to 15,000 regulars at Easter Road IMO and be recognised as we always should be...the main club in Scotland outside the Old Firm. I'm ambitious for this club to be the best it can be and to fulfil it's true potential. Now is the time to realise that potential. We will not however realise that potential whilst we are in this sorry mess of a league. Three years running for god's sake...a bloody embarrasment being relegated into this league in 2014 and it should never have been allowed to happen. Promotion and a league win all the way for me this season. The cup will come again once we are up.
    Said one Hibby to another in 1903.

    I think it's interesting you focus on size alot gm. Being the biggest, being recognised as the main challengers, realising potential etc.

    I guess it's how you gauge how you enjoy the game. Some folk obviously think being in the top league and playing Celtc,Aberdeen and the rest on a regular basis is the priority, which is fine. Some folk would take silverware over the possibility of becoming bigger. I've never,ever understood the desire of football fans to be the biggest. I'd watch Hibs play in any league, I enjoy some of the grounds in this league far more than the ones in the premier league.

    Football is about winning silverware

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
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    a) Why are Cummings and McGinn "almost certain to leave if we go up"?

    b) If the Gunts can maintain that level of crowd, why can't we?

    c) Why, as appears to be the case, is your confident prediction that we'll return/regress to being the club of the ten years previous to relegation? Has nothing/no one at the club changed for the better, in your qualified opinion?

    I'm sorry, but while @Smurf and @Wannabehibee are in your camp, I think that's a lot of defeatist $#@!e. I find it baffling the amount of folk who sound like they'd actually RATHER stay in this fcukin league than go up and actually have a bash at getting bigger and better as a club.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    not sure about the "certain to leave" part but, if they do Hibs will get a fair price for them due to the contract they are on.
    Thats what Hibs do, we are a selling club. We'll always be a selling club, like every other club in Scotland. It wont matter what division we,wre in, that wont change.
    And after Cummings, McGinn, etc leave, we will bring in the next batch of players to replace them. That is a given whether we are playing in the Championship, SPL, EPL, La Liga or Bundeslige.

    In the meantime tho', lets use them to win another Scottish Cup.

    "Here we go, 2 in a row"

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
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    a) Why are Cummings and McGinn "almost certain to leave if we go up"?

    b) If the Gunts can maintain that level of crowd, why can't we?

    c) Why, as appears to be the case, is your confident prediction that we'll return/regress to being the club of the ten years previous to relegation? Has nothing/no one at the club changed for the better, in your qualified opinion?

    I'm sorry, but while @Smurf and @Wannabehibee are in your camp, I think that's a lot of defeatist $#@!e. I find it baffling the amount of folk who sound like they'd actually RATHER stay in this fcukin league than go up and actually have a bash at getting bigger and better as a club.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We did amazingly well holding onto Cummings and in particular McGinn this season. Credit to both for wanting to stay when they could have moved on to earn more. I've no doubt this summer both will want to move on to earn more and progress their careers. I just hope we can absolutely get their full market rate. McGinn for me is better than Brown and we got 4.4 million for him ten years ago... And Cummings this season is more prolific than Dembele...

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    a) they'll have done pretty much everything they can with Hibs and they'll want to earn more?
    See below.

    b) Let's see what their crowds are like next season. But I know you don't really care about those beasts, neither do I.
    Absolutely, I don't. What I took issue with in the post I was replying to, though, was the implication that only the ugly sisters, the sheep and the Gunts could regularly attract crowds up to or near their capacity. I disagree with that, I think we're more than capable of doing the same if we put a team on the park.

    We're a club set up to win cups ( occasionally) we'll never win the top league, second best option is winning the Scottish cup.
    If only someone had told Leicester that last season, they could have given up in September and saved themselves the hassle. And I'm only being half flippant there - I agree, it's hugely unlikely, but as Leicester proved, you really do only have to be in it to win it..

    I think it's interesting you focus on size alot gm. Being the biggest, being recognised as the main challengers, realising potential etc.

    I guess it's how you gauge how you enjoy the game. Some folk obviously think being in the top league and playing Celtc,Aberdeen and the rest on a regular basis is the priority, which is fine. Some folk would take silverware over the possibility of becoming bigger. I've never,ever understood the desire of football fans to be the biggest. I'd watch Hibs play in any league, I enjoy some of the grounds in this league far more than the ones in the premier league.

    Football is about winning silverware
    I agree, it's about how you gauge and enjoy the game. But don't forget, M, you're speaking there as a "home and away" fan, which is not only a commendable position but also a privileged one. As you know, both my financial and domestic situations make doing the same impossible. As a result, I along with the vast majority of our support's enjoyment of the game is derived from our home games alone. For me, my enjoyment of the game is vastly improved by a stadium with 14/15k in it, as opposed to one with 7/8k in it - the atmosphere is inarguably better, and at the end of the day, we're set up (in terms of stadium) to be playing in front of crowds of that magnitude. Furthermore, quite frankly aye - I'd rather watch us play better quality opposition that come and attack us - makes for a better spectacle all round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby View Post
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    not sure about the "certain to leave" part but, if they do Hibs will get a fair price for them due to the contract they are on.
    Thats what Hibs do, we are a selling club. We'll always be a selling club, like every other club in Scotland. It wont matter what division we,wre in, that wont change.
    And after Cummings, McGinn, etc leave, we will bring in the next batch of players to replace them. That is a given whether we are playing in the Championship, SPL, EPL, La Liga or Bundeslige.
    Well indeed, but a) I see no reason why they might just stay on one more year - the only way they're cast-iron, stick-on guaranteed to leave is if we don't go up. And b) the next batch behind them will be better players if we're promoted, as opposed to looking at our 4th season in the Championship. Surely no-one could reasonably suggest otherwise?

    In the meantime tho', lets use them to win another Scottish Cup.

    "Here we go, 2 in a row"
    Nae arguments on that front though!!!
    Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'...

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    a) they'll have done pretty much everything they can with Hibs and they'll want to earn more?

    b) Let's see what their crowds are like next season. But I know you don't really care about those beasts, neither do I.


    We're a club set up to win cups ( occasionally) we'll never win the top league, second best option is winning the Scottish cup.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Said one Hibby to another in 1903.

    I think it's interesting you focus on size alot gm. Being the biggest, being recognised as the main challengers, realising potential etc.

    I guess it's how you gauge how you enjoy the game. Some folk obviously think being in the top league and playing Celtc,Aberdeen and the rest on a regular basis is the priority, which is fine. Some folk would take silverware over the possibility of becoming bigger. I've never,ever understood the desire of football fans to be the biggest. I'd watch Hibs play in any league, I enjoy some of the grounds in this league far more than the ones in the premier league.

    Football is about winning silverware
    i don't think those of us who prioritise the league disagree with your closing points. The concern is more that staying down here much longer would lead to shrinkage that put the cups out of reach also.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    i don't think those of us who prioritise the league disagree with your closing points. The concern is more that staying down here much longer would lead to shrinkage that put the cups out of reach also.
    I think the evidence ( based on our club) suggests otherwise?

    How many trophies over what timescale achieved in the top league vs how many trophies over what timescale in the lower league?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I think the evidence ( based on our club) suggests otherwise?

    How many trophies over what timescale achieved in the top league vs how many trophies over what timescale in the lower league?
    I think the arrival of Leeann has been the significant change. It may be that 'time out' in the second tier has helped our rebuild but I fear we're on the cusp of diminishing returns if that is true.

    I guess the flip side to my previous is that another cup win might sustain our attendances and offset continued loss of tv monies, meagre through they may be. As such, if we were talking about this after another cup victory maybe the calculation would change a bit. In terms of priority though, I think it has to be the league rather than the long shot of a cup.

    However as I noted somewhere above, I think the either / or question is rather moot now. The semi is so late in the season we'll either be done with the league or will need the momentum supplied by a semi victory. I therefore thing the focus question is no longer that relevant if at all.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    However as I noted somewhere above, I think the either / or question is rather moot now. The semi is so late in the season we'll either be done with the league or will need the momentum supplied by a semi victory. I therefore thing the focus question is no longer that relevant if at all.
    I agree with this. I'm sticking by my prediction of league champs on the 8th of April, allowing Lennon to clearly define the next month as singularly about the league, and the next month singularly about the cup. We could suffer the same strange curse as Sevco if we win the semi by being competitive-less for a month. A positive in some respect, but also a curse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I agree with this. I'm sticking by my prediction of league champs on the 8th of April, allowing Lennon to clearly define the next month as singularly about the league, and the next month singularly about the cup. We could suffer the same strange curse as Sevco if we win the semi by being competitive-less for a month. A positive in some respect, but also a curse.
    Interesting prediction, which I hope is correct.

    Would we be a potential bounce game for whoever is in the second round of the playoffs? Might at least get a reasonably intense game, but with another side who'll want to avoid injuries at all costs too. Win/win.
    Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'...

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
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    a) Why are Cummings and McGinn "almost certain to leave if we go up"?

    b) If the Gunts can maintain that level of crowd, why can't we?

    c) Why, as appears to be the case, is your confident prediction that we'll return/regress to being the club of the ten years previous to relegation? Has nothing/no one at the club changed for the better, in your qualified opinion?

    I'm sorry, but while @Smurf and @Wannabehibee are in your camp, I think that's a lot of defeatist $#@!e. I find it baffling the amount of folk who sound like they'd actually RATHER stay in this fcukin league than go up and actually have a bash at getting bigger and better as a club.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Ok, firstly the question was what I'd prefer Cup win or League Win. I said Cup and I've given my reasons for having that 'qualified' opinion. Most posters on here are saying that if we won the Cup but failed to go up we are doomed as a club. I'm yet to see any real reasoning given for this beyond - McGinn and Cummings will leave and attendances will plummet. Both of which I argue are entirely possible in the near future if we were to go up (and not win the Cup). To answer your specific points though:

    a) I base that opinion on how history has proven nearly 100% of talented Hibs players have moved on in the past 20 years. I'd say the only exception to that is Paul Hanlon. The fact that both players are on longish contracts only increases the changes that a very tempting offer for both player and club will be forthcoming.

    b) The gunts finished 3rd in their first season back in the Premiership therefore so far their season ticket numbers have held up. If we win, come 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th next year in the Premiership I'd expect us to maintain around12K season tickets (unless they do a massive price increase).

    c) Given that its taken us at least 3 years to get out the Championship and we have a threadbare squad and a manager that I doubt really wants to stay more than 3 years at Hibs, my opinion (no real qualifications other than applying some logic to the debate) is that it is highly likely we will not become a permanent feature at the top of the Premiership. It would be great to be proven wrong.

  11. #61
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    When we had this debate last year I favoured a cup win and was perplexed that anyone would prefer winning the league over this. Perhaps they underestimated the impact winning the holy grail would have and have since changed their mind.

    This year if it was a straight choice of one or the other I'm going for the league as not as convinced as I was last year that the cup win would help absorb the lost revenue etc of another year in the championship.
    "Life goes by pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller

  12. #62
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    A win on Friday would be an important step towards winning the league, defeat and we face a nerve shredding run in..
    until the sky turns green

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    Quote Originally Posted by tricky View Post
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    A win on Friday would be an important step towards winning the league, defeat and we face a nerve shredding run in..
    Indeed. Just don't lose, at the very least. Greedy though - want to end their challenge now.

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    Last season it was the cup, without a doubt. This season has to be all about winning the league. A fourth season here would see players leave, financially it would be terrible and we'd need to start again under a new manager as no way could Lennon stay if he failed to win this league.

    I think the players look like they're in the 'cup over league' mode though recently.

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    We've got 6 games at home and 4 away, only 3 after Friday.

    Win on Friday and it's looking great.
    Draw on Friday it's looking ok.
    Lose and you're still in pole positon to make it happen.

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    I fear that if we don't manage to get out this league this year then that will end any realistic chances of good cup runs in the future and make us 'a team that once was' as it will be very hard to attract a decent level player to a club thatsin the 2nd tier for a fourth season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C4MMY View Post
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    I fear that if we don't manage to get out this league this year then that will end any realistic chances of good cup runs in the future and make us 'a team that once was' as it will be very hard to attract a decent level player to a club thatsin the 2nd tier for a fourth season.
    Agreed, this is my worry. If we can't go up this year with a squad that, while a bit threadbare, contains SJM and JC, then I think we will struggle next season because I assume we will probably lose them and be weaker.
    so what do I know

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