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Thread: Sundays Derby

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Luckily, we don't have to agree. We can just look at the stats from the BBC:

    13 - Jason Cummings
    05 - Martin Boyle
    04 - Brian Graham
    03 - Grant Holt
    03 - John McGinn
    02 - Kris Commons
    02 - Paul Hanlon
    01 - David Gray
    01 - James Keatings
    01 - Andrew Shinnie

    .
    That is depressing

  2. #52
    Quite a bit past it radge






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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Luckily, we don't have to agree. We can just look at the stats from the BBC:

    13 - Jason Cummings
    05 - Martin Boyle
    04 - Brian Graham
    03 - Grant Holt
    03 - John McGinn
    02 - Kris Commons
    02 - Paul Hanlon
    01 - David Gray
    01 - James Keatings
    01 - Andrew Shinnie

    There are precious few goals in this team. Of the 38 times we've put the ball in the net, Jason Cummings (who's sat out a lot) is responsible for more than a third of them. The reason we're six points ahead in the league is because we've a mean defence that doesn't give very much away, not because we score goals or they're spread around.

    The opposite is true.

    Sure, you can argue that "anyone can get a goal". Aye. They can. But that doesn't suddenly mean that they will, or the logical conclusion of that argument is that every team has goals spread around them.

    Cummings, barring injury, must start.

    Headshot.

  3. #53
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    Marciano ( Possibly harsh on Laidlaw but he did not inspire me last Saturday)
    Gray
    McGregor
    Fontaine
    Stevenson
    Bartley
    Fyvie
    McGinn
    Keatings ( a must for his set piece delivery)
    Holt
    Cummings

    4-4-2

    play a direct pressing game that gets the ball forward quickly to Holt, midfield supporting, Bartley holding. Sounds really simple I know but does it need to be complicated?
    Pitch is not great so it could be a big factor too.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Luckily, we don't have to agree. We can just look at the stats from the BBC:

    13 - Jason Cummings
    05 - Martin Boyle
    04 - Brian Graham
    03 - Grant Holt
    03 - John McGinn
    02 - Kris Commons
    02 - Paul Hanlon
    01 - David Gray
    01 - James Keatings
    01 - Andrew Shinnie

    There are precious few goals in this team. Of the 38 times we've put the ball in the net, Jason Cummings (who's sat out a lot) is responsible for more than a third of them. The reason we're six points ahead in the league is because we've a mean defence that doesn't give very much away, not because we score goals or they're spread around.

    The opposite is true.

    Sure, you can argue that "anyone can get a goal". Aye. They can. But that doesn't suddenly mean that they will, or the logical conclusion of that argument is that every team has goals spread around them.

    Cummings, barring injury, must start.

    And on Sunday evening those stats will read.

    Cummings - 15

    McGinn - 04


    Keep the faith
    "THE HIBEES FAMILY"

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Family View Post
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    And on Sunday evening those stats will read.

    Cummings - 15

    McGinn - 04


    Keep the faith
    Nice one
    GGTTH

  6. #56
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    I'd like us to show a bit of ambition, but have a strong midfield so we are not overrun:

    Laidlaw (if Marciano is unavailable)
    Gray McGregor Fontaine Stevenson
    Fyvie Bartley McGinn
    Keatings Cummings Shinnie

    We'll then still have decent options on the bench to change the game as required with Holt, Graham, Boyle, McGeough, Humphrey & Forster.

  7. #57
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    Honestly can't see holt not playing in this game. NL always plays him away from home when it's going to be a rough hard match, plus it's kinda pointless having fonts in the team without him as his long hopeful punts are even less effective if that's possible

  8. #58
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    Bunch of charity bumping cheats, they have improved, but this is Hibernian 2017, we should have nothing to fear from them. Widnae like to be a 15 year old lassie in their company right enough.
    nil satis nisi optimum

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Luckily, we don't have to agree. We can just look at the stats from the BBC:

    13 - Jason Cummings
    05 - Martin Boyle
    04 - Brian Graham
    03 - Grant Holt
    03 - John McGinn
    02 - Kris Commons
    02 - Paul Hanlon
    01 - David Gray
    01 - James Keatings
    01 - Andrew Shinnie

    There are precious few goals in this team. Of the 38 times we've put the ball in the net, Jason Cummings (who's sat out a lot) is responsible for more than a third of them. The reason we're six points ahead in the league is because we've a mean defence that doesn't give very much away, not because we score goals or they're spread around.

    The opposite is true.

    Sure, you can argue that "anyone can get a goal". Aye. They can. But that doesn't suddenly mean that they will, or the logical conclusion of that argument is that every team has goals spread around them.

    Cummings, barring injury, must start.
    Great post which explains in all it's gory details not just this seasons annual poultry ration of goals outwith one player, but also just why were relegated in the first place and why we are still in the Championship 3 years later.
    Maybe some day we will solve our chronic goalscoring problems which have afflicted us now for the best part of 9 years. Where would we be in the league just now without Jason Cummings goals ?
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

    John Hughes

  10. #60
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    a total of 9 league goals from Keatings, Shinnie, Holt and Graham..
    until the sky turns green

  11. #61
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    It does my head in that us supporters have long recognised the need for goals in our side and every manager appears to not address it.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Luckily, we don't have to agree. We can just look at the stats from the BBC:

    13 - Jason Cummings
    05 - Martin Boyle
    04 - Brian Graham
    03 - Grant Holt
    03 - John McGinn
    02 - Kris Commons
    02 - Paul Hanlon
    01 - David Gray
    01 - James Keatings
    01 - Andrew Shinnie

    There are precious few goals in this team. Of the 38 times we've put the ball in the net, Jason Cummings (who's sat out a lot) is responsible for more than a third of them. The reason we're six points ahead in the league is because we've a mean defence that doesn't give very much away, not because we score goals or they're spread around.

    The opposite is true.

    Sure, you can argue that "anyone can get a goal". Aye. They can. But that doesn't suddenly mean that they will, or the logical conclusion of that argument is that every team has goals spread around them.

    Cummings, barring injury, must start.
    BOOM ...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Family View Post
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    And on Sunday evening those stats will read.

    Cummings - 15

    McGinn - 04


    Keep the faith
    ...but as ripostes go, that's a good 'un

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    this seasons annual poultry ration
    If you're getting free chicken from the government, then I blimmin' well want some too.

    < Crosses arms indignantly >
    Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'...

  13. #63
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    Ooooft. Getting the odd flutter in the stomach when I think about it now.

    To quote Top Gun's Wolfman: "They must be close; I'm gettin' a hardon!"

    Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'...

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Shrink View Post
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    Headshot.
    Mmm; and, perhaps depressingly, to my own erstwhile views about Jason Cummings. I was wrong, it's as simple as that. He's utterly vital to our promotion push.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmachine View Post
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    Where would we be in the league just now without Jason Cummings goals ?
    Funnily enough, again, we can look up the answer!

    Bear in mind that had Cummings not scored, something else might have happened but as a talking point (and I looked this up quickly)...

    These are the games where points would have been different:

    Minus 3: Falkirk 1-0 Hibernian (6th Aug)
    Minus 2: Hibernian 1-1 Dunfermline (13th Aug)
    Minus 2: St Mirren 0-0 Hibernian (20th Aug)
    Minus 2: Dumbarton 0-0 Hibernan (10th Sep)
    Minus 1: Morton 1-0 Hibernian (17th Dec)
    Minus 2: Falkirk 1-1 Hibernian (31st Dec)
    Minus 1: Hibernian 0-1 Ayr United (4th Feb)

    Taking 13 points off us, and adjusting the table for results affecting other teams, the table would be thus:

    Dundee United: 43
    Greenock Morton: 42
    Falkirk: 41
    Hibernian: 36

    We'd be fourth, and seven points off the pace.

    For all I've said in the past about his value, selling Cummings would have been bad for business if we'd let him go for less than a few million pounds. He's not worth that to another team, but that's what he's worth to us.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    Mmm; and, perhaps depressingly, to my own erstwhile views about Jason Cummings. I was wrong, it's as simple as that. He's utterly vital to our promotion push.



    Funnily enough, again, we can look up the answer!

    Bear in mind that had Cummings not scored, something else might have happened but as a talking point (and I looked this up quickly)...

    These are the games where points would have been different:

    Minus 3: Falkirk 1-0 Hibernian (6th Aug)
    Minus 2: Hibernian 1-1 Dunfermline (13th Aug)
    Minus 2: St Mirren 0-0 Hibernian (20th Aug)
    Minus 2: Dumbarton 0-0 Hibernan (10th Sep)
    Minus 1: Morton 1-0 Hibernian (17th Dec)
    Minus 2: Falkirk 1-1 Hibernian (31st Dec)
    Minus 1: Hibernian 0-1 Ayr United (4th Feb)

    Taking 13 points off us, and adjusting the table for results affecting other teams, the table would be thus:

    Dundee United: 43
    Greenock Morton: 42
    Falkirk: 41
    Hibernian: 36

    We'd be fourth, and seven points off the pace.

    For all I've said in the past about his value, selling Cummings would have been bad for business if we'd let him go for less than a few million pounds. He's not worth that to another team, but that's what he's worth to us.
    Although agree initially. It could be argued that had JC left in the summer the money received could've brought in 2 good strikers and not stuck with the likes of Holt. It would've been a must to replace JC, but instead it was taking for granted we would have the leagues top goal scorer on fire all season. Maybe part of JC's problems have been from knowing this and no real competition.

    This is no way a post to say I think we should've sold him but just another angle to look at things.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastMeetsWest View Post
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    Although agree initially. It could be argued that had JC left in the summer the money received could've brought in 2 good strikers and not stuck with the likes of Holt. It would've been a must to replace JC, but instead it was taking for granted we would have the leagues top goal scorer on fire all season. Maybe part of JC's problems have been from knowing this and no real competition.
    All valid points, and well understood. "Removing" goals is really only an exercise in mental gymnastics, but I think it does highlight Cummings' value in particular; I don't personally believe that the sum we'd get from his sale would have been invested into replacing him. I just don't. And if you take that assessment as read (and consider the earlier point about this being a problem at Easter Road for years), then you're stuck concluding that we really can't do without him at this point in time.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    All valid points, and well understood. "Removing" goals is really only an exercise in mental gymnastics, but I think it does highlight Cummings' value in particular; I don't personally believe that the sum we'd get from his sale would have been invested into replacing him. I just don't. And if you take that assessment as read (and consider the earlier point about this being a problem at Easter Road for years), then you're stuck concluding that we really can't do without him at this point in time.
    As well as needing JC, we need the others to step up to the plate. As you pointed out earlier the goals around the team in particular from midfield, shocking.

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  18. #68
    Easy Now Radge



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    The BBC say 13 goals for JC but as this is a cup game let's not forget his goals in that. It's 15 goals this season with at least one more on Sunday naturally. Of course Lennon will start him but when will he sub him? For he certainly will do that cos that's what he's done to the lad all this season when he's saw fit to start him, to keep up this strange "I'm the Boss" routine that he's developed when it concerns our JC.

    Squirrel has scored 6 and I'd like to see him play. And play well obviously. It's simple but pace is a truly great thing to have.

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