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Thread: Morton v Hibernian

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs1337 View Post
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    The Cummings saga rumbles on.

    Can an anyone on here confirm exactly why Cummings was dropped? I have no idea so put trust in the manager. There are quite a few on here who profess to be ITK, it strange that nothing substantial has been offered regarding JC's absence? Alternatively I stay in a wee fishing village out of carrier pigeon range...
    My source is saying nothing.
    Space to let

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Wise heads and sages perpetuating the myth that Cummings 'deserved' to be dropped backed up by other with 'well said' confuses me.
    As do those who attempt to justify our current position with excuses of depleted squad.

    We are playing terrible football, real Butcher or Fenlon stuff. Which I'd grudgingly accept if we were leading the league by a distance to justify it. But we're joint top with a team who got relegated and lost most of their team and manager.
    Are you saying that you know Cummings didn't deserved to be dropped? I don't count myself as a "wise head" but I don't think I am daft either.

    I would love to know why the lad was dropped, it must be a good reason to drop your top goal scorer I would imagine? Seriously, if you know, do tell.

    Justifying being top of the league is a strange challenge to be honest. The fact that we are maintaining the position so far maybe down to the quality of the opposition but also due to our resolve and depth? Take McGinn, Fyvie, McGeough and first choice keeper out of any other team in Scotland bar Celtic, they will suffer in some shape or form I would imagine?

    We haven't played "terrible" football all season, not IMO anyway.

  3. #103
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    Cummings was on twitter in the early hours of a match day, Lennon didn't like that so benched him. That's the story I've been told anyway.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Cummings was on twitter in the early hours of a match day, Lennon didn't like that so benched him. That's the story I've been told anyway.
    Interesting... Justifies his idiotic actions. Not.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs1337 View Post
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    Are you saying that you know Cummings didn't deserved to be dropped? I don't count myself as a "wise head" but I don't think I am daft either.

    I would love to know why the lad was dropped, it must be a good reason to drop your top goal scorer I would imagine? Seriously, if you know, do tell.

    Justifying being top of the league is a strange challenge to be honest. The fact that we are maintaining the position so far maybe down to the quality of the opposition but also due to our resolve and depth? Take McGinn, Fyvie, McGeough and first choice keeper out of any other team in Scotland bar Celtic, they will suffer in some shape or form I would imagine?

    We haven't played "terrible" football all season, not IMO anyway.
    joint top at Xmas is not really what anyone was hoping for

    been unlucky with injuries but every team gets them, up to the manager to deal with it.

    last three performances have been really poor, three very big games coming up.
    until the sky turns green

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy View Post
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    Sorry had this debate with egb recently but it's just not true.

    We didn't get more goals throughout the team we got practically the same with Boyle scoring half what JC did. Boyle took JC's place in the St Mirren game. Well actually he took Keatings place but anyways... We won 2 nil with Boyle scoring. Good stuff. He then keeps him out the team for the next 6 games. We win 3 (4 nil QOS, 2 nil Dumbarton & 3 nil Ayr) Draw 2 (Falkirk & Morton) and lose 1 to Dundee Utd. Boyle scores 4 and the team overall score 13.

    Go to our first 6 games starting with JC and it's won 5 and draw 1, with the overall team scoring 12 with JC getting 7 of them. And I'm being kind to Boyle as I'm counting last nights game which Squirrel started but JC scored.

    Overall, peeps on both sides massage stats to suit agenda but the bottom line is JC Played 17 scored 9. Boyle Played 19 scored 5.

    One is an out and out striker ( a very good one at that) and one is a winger (who blows hot and cold like most wingers) Why the hell not play both correctly and to their strength's? Madness.

    JC had a couple of poor games and hadn't scored in 3 prior to his banishment. Big deal! That lad has carried us for 2 whole seasons...I thought "Fair enough ...mibbes a couple of games..a wee telling and then move on.."For him to be on the bench right up to near Xmas is mismanagement of the highest and dumbest order.

    I would say it's Lennon that needs to grow up and not Cummings. Get it sorted FFS!
    youre right beefy - yer voodoo use of stats wasn't and isn't true The rate the team not Boyle,was scoring, rocketed when Jason was benched and your unlike comparisons don't change that.

    What's important now is that its changed again; with the decimation of the midfield, squirrel consequently playing deeper, and our other less than impressive strikers tailing off, we have once more lost the way to goal. Meanwhile Jason has had his turn warming the bench and absolutely needs to start.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricky View Post
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    joint top at Xmas is not really what anyone was hoping for

    been unlucky with injuries but every team gets them, up to the manager to deal with it.

    last three performances have been really poor, three very big games coming up.
    Don't disagree with any of your points.

  8. #108
    Quite a bit past it radge






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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Cummings was on twitter in the early hours of a match day, Lennon didn't like that so benched him. That's the story I've been told anyway.
    I was told he went awol on a sponsors golf day and that led to harsh words too, not just from Lennon.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Interesting... Justifies his idiotic actions. Not.
    IF it's true it seems petty. That said maybe it's a rule that NL has applied, we all know what can happen when the players ignore discipline, ask another JC from a different time but not that long ago.....
    I think Jason will start next Saturday, up to him to retain his place if so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Shrink View Post
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    I was told he went awol on a sponsors golf day and that led to harsh words too, not just from Lennon.
    This is what I heard, never pitched up nor did he make contact to advise that he wouldn't be there.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinc View Post
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    This is what I heard, never pitched up nor did he make contact to advise that he wouldn't be there.
    "Pitched up" very good lol

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    youre right beefy - yer voodoo use of stats wasn't and isn't true The rate the team not Boyle,was scoring, rocketed when Jason was benched and your unlike comparisons don't change that.

    What's important now is that its changed again; with the decimation of the midfield, squirrel consequently playing deeper, and our other less than impressive strikers tailing off, we have once more lost the way to goal. Meanwhile Jason has had his turn warming the bench and absolutely needs to start.
    Did it aye? Ok ,Take away the Euro games and the diddy diddy cup games and go with the bread & butter League & Cup games yeah...

    Hibs with JC starting

    P 11 W 6 D 3 L 2 GF 16 GA 8

    Hibs without JC starting

    P 7 W 4 D 2 L 1 GF 16 GA 4


    "Rocketed" Aye right then. 16 each with or without. Only at Hibs would a player who has scored 9 of them get slated for doing his job, even scoring 1 of the goals when he didn't start to even the tally's up. Good grief!

    As I said the last time it wasn't fair to judge unless you take it over the same amount of games ( unless it's the end of season) So let's just compare the 6 consecutive game spell when he was benched to the first 6 games he started...

    Without...

    P 6 W 4 D 1 L 1 GF 13 GA 3

    With...

    P 6 W 5 D 1 L 1 GF 12 GA 5

    There it is...we scored 1 more goal as a team. This justifies dropping JC who had scored 7 in 6.?


    As for Boyle playing deeper....Stop it man.

    I'm glad you think he should start now but there is no way he should have been benched for that amount of games, and nothing will change my mind on that.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzahibs View Post
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    "Pitched up" very good lol
    He's just puttin it out there😩


    Think I might nip over to Gorgie Farm and count some Chickens before they've hatched

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Shrink View Post
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    I was told he went awol on a sponsors golf day and that led to harsh words too, not just from Lennon.
    If that's true, how long does he "teach him a lesson" for?This golf day Was ages ago.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy View Post
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    Did it aye? Ok ,Take away the Euro games and the diddy diddy cup games and go with the bread & butter League & Cup games yeah...

    Hibs with JC starting

    P 11 W 6 D 3 L 2 GF 16 GA 8

    Hibs without JC starting

    P 7 W 4 D 2 L 1 GF 16 GA 4


    "Rocketed" Aye right then. 16 each with or without. Only at Hibs would a player who has scored 9 of them get slated for doing his job, even scoring 1 of the goals when he didn't start to even the tally's up. Good grief!
    the same amount of goals scored in 7 games as 11 is a 60% increase in our scoring rate. If you don't like the word rocket, pick another word for sudden and large increase.
    As I said the last time it wasn't fair to judge unless you take it over the same amount of games ( unless it's the end of season) So let's just compare the 6 consecutive game spell when he was benched to the first 6 games he started...

    Without...

    P 6 W 4 D 1 L 1 GF 13 GA 3

    With...

    P 6 W 5 D 1 L 1 GF 12 GA 5

    There it is...we scored 1 more goal as a team. This justifies dropping JC who had scored 7 in 6.?
    but that didn't make sense then and it doesn't now. It's football and form and other things fluctuate; someone benched due to a drop in form doesn't need to be kept there for a period equal to a previous good spell in order for it to make a difference. And things have fluctuated again, a) our midfield has been wiped out and b) Jason is due the chance to show his dip in form is done with.

    As for Boyle playing deeper....Stop it man.
    looks that way to me, he's not got any creative midfielders behind him bar Shinnie and that looks like the practical result.
    I'm glad you think he should start now but there is no way he should have been benched for that amount of games, and nothing will change my mind on that.
    Which is fair enough, but but it's not fair enough to say the facts on which I was basing my side of the argument were wrong, they simply aren't. The team as a whole started scoring much more freely until Fyvie and McGinn were crocked.

    Ps I don't care who is playing and scoring as long as we are winning. I do however feel Lennon made a mistake in leaving big G on the bench on Saturday

  16. #116
    Quite a bit past it radge






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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehibee View Post
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    If that's true, how long does he "teach him a lesson" for?This golf day Was ages ago.
    If Jason was dropped because of his off-field attitude (big ‘if’ because I’ve no idea) then that would perhaps have been for a one game ‘kick up the bahookie’ and I wouldn’t argue too much. Players need to know boundaries, and get disciplined when they go over them. Just like puppies, recalcitrant children, and of course wives obviously.
    Unfortunately for Jason, the Squirrel came in and demonstrated exactly what Lennon wanted Jason to do – score goals, and give the proverbial footballers 110% effort. And of course once you ‘have the jersey’ then a lot of managers let you keep it until you get a dip in form. Otherwise, its managers favourites get picked all the time (I seem to remember Stubbs getting that criticism) and fringe/benched players get fed up. It's fair to say that Squirrel may not have the ability of Jason, but the team played not too badly with him in it.
    However, even if I’m right – it seems to me that Jason deserves a starting slot again now. If he doesn’t start next week then I’ll start to think maybe Lennon has a personal rather than professional reason for not playing him. I can only think Big G's ear furniture kept him on the bench, because certainly he has at least the ability of Holt if not quite the waistline.

  17. #117
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    I thought Jason was benched because despite his undoubted goal scoring abilities, he didn't have the movement to cut open defences when teams decided to sit in against us. As a result we were in danger of dropping points to teams we should by rights, have been hammering. As the good Shrink says - despite his lesser goalscoring abilities Squirrel provided that threat. Lets not forget, it's not that long ago we were lauding the team for their performance against the Queens.

    In other news - I like Marvin - he takes a lot of physical abuse from teams but on Saturday I thought he was playing further up the field than usual and that left him exposed and he got his pocket picked far too often. I think the team works better when he plays just in front of the three central defenders.

  18. #118
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    I think Jason will be away in January, maybe not but just thought.

  19. #119
    Easy Now Radge



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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    the same amount of goals scored in 7 games as 11 is a 60% increase in our scoring rate. If you don't like the word rocket, pick another word for sudden and large increase.

    Jeezo! We have scored 32 goals in 18 games. JC has scored 9 of these. Team mates have scored 23. One man gets 9 against the rest of the team scoring 23. You can go on about percentages till yer blue in the face but it's goals that win games and we win more when he plays than when he doesn't.

    but that didn't make sense then and it doesn't now. It's football and form and other things fluctuate; someone benched due to a drop in form doesn't need to be kept there for a period equal to a previous good spell in order for it to make a difference. And things have fluctuated again, a) our midfield has been wiped out and b) Jason is due the chance to show his dip in form is done with.

    Of course things fluctuate, that's my point. You came out with this fomula when Boyle got his chance and done well scoring 4. I said then you cannae judge it over a 4 game good spell but you said aye ye can! So now we are at 7 games and for the last 3 games Boyle has been absolutely woeful as a striker. How long was Jason's dip in form? 3 games! And been on the bench since, bar one. 3 games without scoring and yer out even though you had scored 8 by then. I've asked before but why can't we have both on the pitch? Why is it either or?

    looks that way to me, he's not got any creative midfielders behind him bar Shinnie and that looks like the practical result.

    Which is fair enough, but but it's not fair enough to say the facts on which I was basing my side of the argument were wrong, they simply aren't. The team as a whole started scoring much more freely until Fyvie and McGinn were crocked.

    Boyle's goals dried up. Plain and simple. He's been playing up top. The last game we won we had both them on the pitch, none of them scored though but what a novel idea eh? Having your prolific striker and best winger on at the same time. There is something not right.

    Ps I don't care who is playing and scoring as long as we are winning. I do however feel Lennon made a mistake in leaving big G on the bench on Saturday
    I do care who is playing even when winning. I hate to see talent wasted on the bench. Big G would have scored a hat-trick too!

    Here's some league stats for ya to peruse...

    Top Scorers

    Cummings 9
    Boyle 4
    Graham 4
    Holt 3

    Assists

    Cummings 2
    Boyle 1
    Graham 0
    Holt 1

    Shots

    Cummings 32
    Boyle 23
    Graham 16
    Holt 20

    On Target

    Cummings 20
    Boyle 17
    Graham 9
    Holt 11

    Percentage

    Cummings 63%
    Boyle 74%
    Graham 56%
    Holt 55%

    Minutes per goal

    Cummings 98mins
    Boyle 197 mins
    Graham 118 mins
    Holt 331 mins


    Phew! I am done with this now. Life is far too $#@!in short

    Merry Xmas Lovers & Haters

    GGTTH

  20. #120
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    @beefy I'm baffled fella - as I have said several times and others have alluded to, the comparison was never Cummings vs Boyle, but team scoring rate before Cummings was benched and after; and after our goal scoring rate went way up. That's simply a fact, and no apples to oranges and beside the point comparisons change that. I doff my hat to your perseverance but all these figures are beside the point - which was how many goals Hibs were scoring, not Jason Cummings or Martin Boyle.

    Anyway, now we have lost our entire midfield our scoring has crashed again and so we need to try something new again. That should include the return of our top scorer who should have been coming back in anyway once he'd been given a rest.

    So we're all agreed, jase should be back. Let's hope he comes back looking hungry and that somehow he helps the team find a way to unlock defences without much of a midfield to give him service.

    Anyway ahm no disagreeing with you anymore I've said all I can and I think this has been at cross purposes from the start. Ah've just finished up for Christmas so ahm in festive mood and no arguing over statto stuff happy Christmas Gadgey and let's hope the pirlo radge does the biz

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