Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Results 1 to 50 of 50

Thread: Scotland plummeting down education tables

  1. #1
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121

    Scotland plummeting down education tables

    Pretty grim reading this: UK as a whole isn't great but Scotland performing poorly compared to ingerlund.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-38207729

    Looking at the table toppers, there's a notable absence of western countries generally.

    Is it time for us to drag ourselves into the 21st century and push the free schools model?

  2. #2
    Radge Private Member





    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    A stool at the bar
    Posts
    11,083
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    141 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    4205 Post(s)
    vCash
    1562
    Rep Power
    791
    We've fallen from above average to average. Disappointed with the drop but we're not yet thick. I really hope though that this is a wake call and the trend can be arrested then reversed.

    All and sundry giving all their single issue problems a good airing on the wireless this morning; immigrants and their children; kids with special needs being mainstreamed (and that was from the parents of a special needs kid). There was an absolute beezer but I can't remember it, if I do I'll drop it in later.

    If only the kids could learn "real stuff" through phones and consoles, they'd all be fecking geniuses!

  3. #3
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    It's a plummet since 2000 when it began - 5th to 15tj in maths for instance. I doubt single issues have much effect - antiquated hippy-dippy philosophy might be more an issue. I doubt the Japanese, Chinese and Singaporeans will be fannnying about

  4. #4
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    No idea the answer but it's a convenient political football.

  5. #5
    Radge Private Member





    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    A stool at the bar
    Posts
    11,083
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    141 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    4205 Post(s)
    vCash
    1562
    Rep Power
    791
    There's no link to the original report and even if found I have no inclination to pour through it.

    The BBC report does however mention that certain countries have improved [their scores?], some considerably. It makes me wonder if we are actually worse than we were, let's say we stood still, while other countries have improved and therefore overtaken us.

    If they've improved then so can we!

  6. #6
    Justified Radge



    aggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Montrose Terrace Massive
    Posts
    6,198
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    3339 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2032
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    kids with special needs being mainstreamed (and that was from the parents of a special needs kid).
    I'd be interested to hear folk's opinions on this one, given the feedback I get from my own daughter.

    She's 8, and in state primary school in east Embra. Her P4 class has 33 pupils. They have a classroom assistant, but one pupil - we'll call him Barry - has special needs. From what I can make out from Christina and her friends, she spends virtually all her time dealing with Barry, who also has problems like punching kids and general disruption.

    To be clear - I'm not suggesting that Barry should be removed or anything, I don't know enough about it. Furthermore, I'm conscious of the fact that it wouldn't be fair for him to be segregated in some way if that would have a proportionally worse impact on his life/development than it does on my daughter and her friends. Perhaps they wouldn't have a classroom assistant at all if it wasn't for Barry being in the class, I dunno.

    Thoughts?
    Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'...

  7. #7
    Radge Private Member


    Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Dhn ideann
    Posts
    8,463
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    523 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd be interested to hear folk's opinions on this one, given the feedback I get from my own daughter.

    She's 8, and in state primary school in east Embra. Her P4 class has 33 pupils. They have a classroom assistant, but one pupil - we'll call him Barry - has special needs. From what I can make out from Christina and her friends, she spends virtually all her time dealing with Barry, who also has problems like punching kids and general disruption.

    To be clear - I'm not suggesting that Barry should be removed or anything, I don't know enough about it. Furthermore, I'm conscious of the fact that it wouldn't be fair for him to be segregated in some way if that would have a proportionally worse impact on his life/development than it does on my daughter and her friends. Perhaps they wouldn't have a classroom assistant at all if it wasn't for Barry being in the class, I dunno.

    Thoughts?
    It's a difficult one isn't it? Trying to be inclusive but there is still a need for specialist care. Some of these children are really, really bright but because of the lack of teacher support their specialist needs aren't being met. The effects is a lot of juggling of plates by teachers and assistants to keep them all spinning.

    Inclusion is great but it should be case by case and not generalised.

  8. #8
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd be interested to hear folk's opinions on this one, given the feedback I get from my own daughter.

    She's 8, and in state primary school in east Embra. Her P4 class has 33 pupils. They have a classroom assistant, but one pupil - we'll call him Barry - has special needs. From what I can make out from Christina and her friends, she spends virtually all her time dealing with Barry, who also has problems like punching kids and general disruption.

    To be clear - I'm not suggesting that Barry should be removed or anything, I don't know enough about it. Furthermore, I'm conscious of the fact that it wouldn't be fair for him to be segregated in some way if that would have a proportionally worse impact on his life/development than it does on my daughter and her friends. Perhaps they wouldn't have a classroom assistant at all if it wasn't for Barry being in the class, I dunno.

    Thoughts?
    My son had a 'Barry' in his classroom P1-P7. A lot of the time sitting together. My son enjoyed the mischief and the hilarity generated. I'm not saying Barry held my son back. May well have been my son held Barry back. However, it seemed to me there were a lot of distractions.

    My son is now in high school and I frequently have a wee look at his mobile phone content... (Aye OK @Sir_Shrink) and I was amazed to see the amount of school footage in the pics and videos. I challenged my son on this and apparently it's in registration and this is allowed....

    Discipline seems something long long lost.

  9. #9
    Radge Monthly Contributor






    emerald green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Far away
    Posts
    3,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    949 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    718
    Our education cant be THAT bad. There are thousands and thousands of students from other parts of the world being educated in the UK...

  10. #10
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    Quote Originally Posted by emerald green View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Our education cant be THAT bad. There are thousands and thousands of students from other parts of the world being educated in the UK...
    Schools eggers - uni is different

  11. #11
    On holiday Radge
    broonieboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    1,812
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    328 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    114
    Few points on this....the intentions behind Curriculum for Excellence were good. The planning of it (Labour) and implementation (SNP) have been absolute rubbish. It's so wishy washy you'd no believe it. The other point re "Barry" is spot on. The level of specialist support for Barry and those similar to him has been stripped away with the intention of asking class teachers to do that job.......at the expense of the majority in the class and (and this is the important bit) close to zero training to allow this to be even close to a functioning idea. I could go on about the ills of the system, but I'd take up too much bandwidth. Saying that, I do still enjoy teaching.....on the occasions I actually get to do it!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Is it not a damning indictment on devolution?

  13. #13
    Donator

    Beagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Fauldhouse
    Posts
    3,186
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1641 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1017
    Something I can't accept is this idea where nobody fails. You know, in youth sports where you can get royally humped at something and still get a medal. Schooling has become the same with Curriculum for Excellence. A couple of years back my laddie returned a D in National 5 Maths (this is the baseline in CFE for older bouncers). His take on it was "It's a D pass" because that's what our kids are being told. After I blew a few fuses trying to get through to him that there's no such thing as a $#@!ing pass with a D, he had to repeat the course the following year. He got an A that time around. THAT is a pass!
    The penny has finally dropped that any mealy mouthed 'any mark is a pass' attitude is maybe alright for teachers to say, but in the workplace it's a fail and would get you emptied.
    Parents night tonight. Should be interesting if any of his teachers come out with that bull$#@!.
    'Live Long and Prosper........unless you're a Gunt' - said Mr Spock

  14. #14
    Hibernian, Hibernian Ra Ra Radge



    Dub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Mississippi in the middle of a dry spell
    Posts
    27,852
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6630 Post(s)
    vCash
    5112
    Rep Power
    1982
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Is it not a damning indictment on devolution?
    No.
    They're gone, not here, forgotten
    The maroon brigade now cry
    The city is now Hibernian
    The team that would not die


    [© Daddy O'Hibee]



    If you don’t know what introspection is, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself

  15. #15
    Radge Monthly Contributor






    emerald green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Far away
    Posts
    3,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    949 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    718
    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No.
    Dubbles, open your eyes, he's a $#@!ing troll.

    The lad is a good Hibby and one can have very little to take him to task when he comments about the greenjerseys, but when it comes to politics in Scotland. He's 100% a $#@!ing troll.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Schools eggers - uni is different
    Yes, was being a tad mischievious. The vast majority of kids in Universities / further education institutes did their primary schooling in Jockoland.

  16. #16
    Donator
    HenryLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1170 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by emerald green View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Dubbles, open your eyes, he's a $#@!ing troll.

    The lad is a good Hibby and one can have very little to take him to task when he comments about the greenjerseys, but when it comes to politics in Scotland. He's 100% a $#@!ing troll.
    That seems a bit unfair. He just disagrees with you a lot, I'm not sure that makes him a troll.

    Unrelated to that, I was amused to see the harder core SNP-ites pointing the finger at kids and parents who 'don't want to learn' as the prime mover behind the drop in standards. Because that seems to me the definition of talking Scotland down.
    so what do I know

  17. #17
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryLB View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That seems a bit unfair. He just disagrees with you a lot, I'm not sure that makes him a troll.

    Unrelated to that, I was amused to see the harder core SNP-ites pointing the finger at kids and parents who 'don't want to learn' as the prime mover behind the drop in standards. Because that seems to me the definition of talking Scotland down.
    Scotland gets devolution in 1999. Full responsibility of matters such as health and education.

    Some seventeen years on there's evidence to suggest all isn't going so well on health and in particular to this thread education.

    Dare to ask, imply or suggest the evidence suggests all isn't going great with devolution then that makes you "a $#@!in troll".

    It's pathetic.

    If health and education were reserved matters at Westminster I wonder if I suggested on this thread that they should be devolved to improve them if I'd be called "a $#@!in troll"?

    I doubt it...

  18. #18
    Hibernian, Hibernian Ra Ra Radge



    Dub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Mississippi in the middle of a dry spell
    Posts
    27,852
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6630 Post(s)
    vCash
    5112
    Rep Power
    1982
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Scotland gets devolution in 1999. Full responsibility of matters such as health and education.

    Some seventeen years on there's evidence to suggest all isn't going so well on health and in particular to this thread education.

    Dare to ask, imply or suggest the evidence suggests all isn't going great with devolution then that makes you "a $#@!in troll".

    It's pathetic.

    If health and education were reserved matters at Westminster I wonder if I suggested on this thread that they should be devolved to improve them if I'd be called "a $#@!in troll"?

    I doubt it...
    Health and Education are doing worse or as bad in England as they are in Scotland so why would having no devolution solve anything Kenny?
    They're gone, not here, forgotten
    The maroon brigade now cry
    The city is now Hibernian
    The team that would not die


    [© Daddy O'Hibee]



    If you don’t know what introspection is, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself

  19. #19
    Radge Private Member

    Kenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    7,919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1924 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    658
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Scotland gets devolution in 1999. Full responsibility of matters such as health and education.

    Some seventeen years on there's evidence to suggest all isn't going so well on health and in particular to this thread education.

    Dare to ask, imply or suggest the evidence suggests all isn't going great with devolution then that makes you "a $#@!in troll".

    It's pathetic.

    If health and education were reserved matters at Westminster I wonder if I suggested on this thread that they should be devolved to improve them if I'd be called "a $#@!in troll"?

    I doubt it...
    yeah but you're not a daft laddie and you know both have been starved at WM and as a result of fundings starved in devolved areas.

    if WM injected 100 billion into education scotland would have something to play with....currently robbing peter to pay paul on just about everything.

    kez's idea on federalism might put this to bed though....might not though knowing how wishywashy scolab have been lately.
    follow the programme archive on twitter: http://twitter.com/hibsbollah

  20. #20
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    yeah but you're not a daft laddie and you know both have been starved at WM and as a result of fundings starved in devolved areas.
    John Swinney could have used the powers he has to increase tax to put more money into education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    if WM injected 100 billion into education scotland would have something to play with....currently robbing peter to pay paul on just about everything.
    Then why not put up tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    kez's idea on federalism might put this to bed though....might not though knowing how wishywashy scolab have been lately.
    Labour are not relevant. Finished in Scotland and the UK. No prospect of winning power so no idea why anyone would be interested in what they have to say.

  21. #21
    Radge Private Member

    Kenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    7,919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1924 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    658
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    John Swinney could have used the powers he has to increase tax to put more money into education?
    as you well know raising more money raised in scotland means less from WM and the taxes scotland posses are mainly about taxing people (although that may have changed when the vow powers were delivered - i gave up watching at that point)

    Then why not put up tax?
    as above - less money from WM because of consequentials and it's all about taxing people.

    Labour are not relevant. Finished in Scotland and the UK. No prospect of winning power so no idea why anyone would be interested in what they have to say.
    ...because it's wiser to listen that just dismiss them out of hand....UKIP will never have power but seem surprisingly relevant
    follow the programme archive on twitter: http://twitter.com/hibsbollah

  22. #22
    Donator
    HenryLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1170 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Health and Education are doing worse or as bad in England as they are in Scotland so why would having no devolution solve anything Kenny?
    Health is probably worse although spending per capita is higher so that may change. I think some of the problems in education in Scotland are a knock-on of the budget being cut by Swinney when he was Finance Minister.

    Education is however better (inasmuch as one can measure such a thing) in England.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    as you well know raising more money raised in scotland means less from WM
    Are you sure? Could you provide a source for that? As far as I know increasing tax has no effect on Barnett consequentials or the block grant.
    so what do I know

  23. #23
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    yeah but you're not a daft laddie and you know both have been starved at WM and as a result of fundings starved in devolved areas.

    if WM injected 100 billion into education scotland would have something to play with....currently robbing peter to pay paul on just about everything.

    kez's idea on federalism might put this to bed though....might not though knowing how wishywashy scolab have been lately.
    It's always the same answer...stacks of money don't sit in front of a class and teach people. The endless statist refrain that more money is the fix - often as right on policy from the same quarters creates the problems - is a circular argument that goes on forever.

  24. #24
    Justified Radge



    aggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Montrose Terrace Massive
    Posts
    6,198
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    3339 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2032
    Personally, the answer seems simple to me, and it would in fact work just as well whether we are the UK, iScotland, or anything else.

    Make teaching as lucrative as law or finance, or even as much as middle to upper management in a $#@!ing supermarket chain, and reap long-term rewards. The relative value we place on teachers in this country is a $#@!ing scandal. Temporary contracts at £24k, with endless hours of pointless management, for teaching our $#@!ing kids. I earned more as a shift manager in a food hall.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'...

  25. #25
    Radge Private Member


    southfieldhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EH15
    Posts
    10,620
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    4384 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1848
    I'd bet anything wee Barry is a hun.

  26. #26
    Radge Private Member

    Kenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    7,919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1924 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    658
    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's always the same answer...stacks of money don't sit in front of a class and teach people. The endless statist refrain that more money is the fix - often as right on policy from the same quarters creates the problems - is a circular argument that goes on forever.
    decreasing the money isn't likely to be the answer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryLB View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    Are you sure? Could you provide a source for that? As far as I know increasing tax has no effect on Barnett consequentials or the block grant.
    you are right - i thought that it was the case but wikipedia says otherwise?

    Barnett formula - Wikipedia

    In contrast, if the Scottish Parliament was to use its tax-adjusting powers (often referred to as the "tartan tax"), the additional (or reduced) revenue would not be considered in any calculations by the Barnett formula of the block grant for Scotland.
    follow the programme archive on twitter: http://twitter.com/hibsbollah

  27. #27
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    Quote Originally Posted by aggie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Personally, the answer seems simple to me, and it would in fact work just as well whether we are the UK, iScotland, or anything else.

    Make teaching as lucrative as law or finance, or even as much as middle to upper management in a $#@!ing supermarket chain, and reap long-term rewards. The relative value we place on teachers in this country is a $#@!ing scandal. Temporary contracts at £24k, with endless hours of pointless management, for teaching our $#@!ing kids. I earned more as a shift manager in a food hall.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    According to this, which I found quite surprising;

    https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-...rk-hours-money

    Teachers in private schools only earn a little more than in state schools and have the same heavy workload.

    While I don't disagree with your sentiment about rewarding teachers, I also don't expect it would make a huge difference to results in and of itself.

    Teachers having to patch up societies problems, with minimal levers to instil discipline and unable to apply the same degrees of academic rigour I would speculate is applicable elsewhere (private sector here and state schools in higher performing countries) are I would guess, more significant variables.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    decreasing the money isn't likely to be the answer.
    No it probably isn't. Then again Scotland spends considerably more per head than England and with worse results. As above, private school teachers don't earn much more (though there may be a higher ratio per pupil) so I wonder where else material differences would be made. It would be interesting for example, to learn what the difference in monies available is between Stewart's Melville charging 10k per year and 6.7k spent per pupil in the state sector. Once you take off costs of maintaining a historic building, swish sports facilities etc, I expect the gap narrows substantially. I wonder what the difference is in funds directed at academic activities and how it is spent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ps I wonder if private schools taken in isolation perform any better against international benchmarks - they may well not do as the better performing state schools outperform them in results iirc

  28. #28
    Radge Private Member





    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    A stool at the bar
    Posts
    11,083
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    141 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    4205 Post(s)
    vCash
    1562
    Rep Power
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Scotland gets devolution in 1999. Full responsibility of matters such as health and education.

    Some seventeen years on there's evidence to suggest all isn't going so well on health and in particular to this thread education.

    Dare to ask, imply or suggest the evidence suggests all isn't going great with devolution then that makes you "a $#@!in troll".

    It's pathetic.

    If health and education were reserved matters at Westminster I wonder if I suggested on this thread that they should be devolved to improve them if I'd be called "a $#@!in troll"?

    I doubt it...
    The reports we're discussing on education only started in 2000. From the chart in the BBC report it could be argued education, as run by Westminster policies in Scotland, were in decline and continued as such under Labour and it was only when Scotland elected a SNP the fall was arrested.

    Your comments on the NHS are, as always, funny.

  29. #29
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The reports we're discussing on education only started in 2000. From the chart in the BBC report it could be argued education, as run by Westminster policies in Scotland, were in decline and continued as such under Labour and it was only when Scotland elected a SNP the fall was arrested.
    Oh sorry it's Labour bad, SNP good?

    What spin that is @Jack The chart clearly shows decline under Labour and SNP. 2007 when this SNP government were elected was 9 years ago. The downward trajectory has continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Your comments on the NHS are, as always, funny.
    Glad you find them funny. So again according to you our NHS is in a smashing state of affairs? My Mum was diagnosed with skin cancer. Had to wait almost a year for the operation. The operation was much more serious as a result of the wait. My Mum should have listened to my sister and went private. The NHS is run by well intentioned folks. The principle of the NHS is fantastic. It is well short of cash (And political party and whether Scotland in or out of the UK makes no difference) and unless it somehow comes up with a model of getting a much higher % of GDP into it is will always be what it is. A third rate service,

  30. #30
    Donator
    HenryLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1170 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    According to this, which I found quite surprising;

    https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-...rk-hours-money

    Teachers in private schools only earn a little more than in state schools and have the same heavy workload.

    While I don't disagree with your sentiment about rewarding teachers, I also don't expect it would make a huge difference to results in and of itself.

    Teachers having to patch up societies problems, with minimal levers to instil discipline and unable to apply the same degrees of academic rigour I would speculate is applicable elsewhere (private sector here and state schools in higher performing countries) are I would guess, more significant variables.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No it probably isn't. Then again Scotland spends considerably more per head than England and with worse results. As above, private school teachers don't earn much more (though there may be a higher ratio per pupil) so I wonder where else material differences would be made. It would be interesting for example, to learn what the difference in monies available is between Stewart's Melville charging 10k per year and 6.7k spent per pupil in the state sector. Once you take off costs of maintaining a historic building, swish sports facilities etc, I expect the gap narrows substantially. I wonder what the difference is in funds directed at academic activities and how it is spent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ps I wonder if private schools taken in isolation perform any better against international benchmarks - they may well not do as the better performing state schools outperform them in results iirc
    Private schools have certain advantages that state schools don't, and it's not just financial. I don't think you can just look at teachers' remuneration and see why they (usually) perform better. For a start they are almost always selective, and they enjoy enormous amounts of parental support and discipline structure that must make things easier. I wouldn't be surprised if schools like Melville's have other income from an endowment-type entity as well.

    Also although it look superficially like the teachers are being paid the same in both sectors, I don't know if that takes into account the cheap housing and perks for private school teachers. The holidays are also longer, and frankly I expect they mostly just have an easier life.
    so what do I know

  31. #31
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    @HenryLB - agree with all that. In fact it's in line with the point I was trying to make; faith in money and it's ability to of itself improve all our services, can sometimes be a little overdone.

    That money is not the only factor favouring private schools goes to the heart of all this.

  32. #32
    Radge Monthly Contributor






    emerald green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Far away
    Posts
    3,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    949 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    718
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    Glad you find them funny. So again according to you our NHS is in a smashing state of affairs? My Mum was diagnosed with skin cancer. Had to wait almost a year for the operation. The operation was much more serious as a result of the wait. My Mum should have listened to my sister and went private. The NHS is run by well intentioned folks. The principle of the NHS is fantastic. It is well short of cash (And political party and whether Scotland in or out of the UK makes no difference) and unless it somehow comes up with a model of getting a much higher % of GDP into it is will always be what it is. A third rate service,
    There can be quite a lot of specialists (trained pretty much through the public purse), who are otherwise engaged "consulting" in othe parts of the Health Economy. A consequence of this generally puts the NHS further down the pecking order for those consulting. Its just one reason of many in respect of waiting times for important operations. Its mainly a "third rate service" (which I wholly dispute) in my experience (18yrs NHS and ongoing) due to almost every private company royally screwing the NHS in costs for goods, and ridiculous amounts of beaurocracy are placed on the NHS by government and layer upon layer of corporate managers (the most senior almost always ex Directors / executives of large private companies.

    Agree the pricnciple of the NHS is fantastitic with many well intentioned folks, but its not actually short of cash as such. Its just scandalously used!

    Very best wishes to your Mum K, I sincerely hope she makes a full and very speedy recovery.

  33. #33
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    Good post eg, I think the penultimate paragraph is a key point. The NHS needs to make better use of cash as well as request more. I guess the trick is how to achieve that without furthering the problems you outline in the first paragraph.

    I've long had a hunch that the public sector is caught in a trap where it cannot pay the going rate for high calibre managers - for a multitude of reasons ranging from upsetting the daily mails tax payer army, to on the other wing, disrupting public sector wage scales and getting the unions and (and in NHS care, doctors) in a lather.

    Result; too many b team players who are putty in the hands of private sector contractors and just generally less than stellar at managing britains biggest logistics operation.

    Ps naturally this doesnt apply to Jack but there's only one jack and he's now away cruising ( and going on holidays on boats as well)

  34. #34
    Radge Private Member





    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    A stool at the bar
    Posts
    11,083
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    141 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    4205 Post(s)
    vCash
    1562
    Rep Power
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Good post eg, I think the penultimate paragraph is a key point. The NHS needs to make better use of cash as well as request more. I guess the trick is how to achieve that without furthering the problems you outline in the first paragraph.

    I've long had a hunch that the public sector is caught in a trap where it cannot pay the going rate for high calibre managers - for a multitude of reasons ranging from upsetting the daily mails tax payer army, to on the other wing, disrupting public sector wage scales and getting the unions and (and in NHS care, doctors) in a lather.

    Result; too many b team players who are putty in the hands of private sector contractors and just generally less than stellar at managing britains biggest logistics operation.

    Ps naturally this doesnt apply to Jack but there's only one jack and he's now away cruising ( and going on holidays on boats as well)
    Not cruising till late January :-)

    It's very difficult for the NHS to get value for money, particularly in one of the most expensive areas drugs. The very recent record fine for Pfizer
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38233852
    I think illustrates that quite well.

    I also think it illustrates that over the past few years the NHS and their managers are becoming more effective in challenging the companies that do it. In no small way helped by other countries doing the same.

    Talking about managers. There's a huge cross over between the NHS, the public sector more generally, and the private sector. It's been increasing throughout the structure for the past couple of decades. We've discussed this before during your rants around the public service being paid more than the private sector.

    What we need to get cute about is the very top of the tree where very senior and director level folk seen to breeze about in the public, including government ministers, and private sector awarding massive contracts to their pals.
    Space to let

  35. #35
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    Rants Jack, rants?! After 8 years of the economy recovering from the collapse of the mental casino run to fund said largesse, rants ought to be the least of it

    Back on topic - the end of that casino is probably one reason why reality is now biting and public sector workers are now being displaced by bottom dollar contracts as well.

  36. #36
    Hibernian, Hibernian Ra Ra Radge



    Dub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Mississippi in the middle of a dry spell
    Posts
    27,852
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6630 Post(s)
    vCash
    5112
    Rep Power
    1982
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not cruising till late January :-)

    It's very difficult for the NHS to get value for money, particularly in one of the most expensive areas drugs. The very recent record fine for Pfizer
    Pfizer fined record £84.2m for overcharging NHS - BBC News
    I think illustrates that quite well.

    I also think it illustrates that over the past few years the NHS and their managers are becoming more effective in challenging the companies that do it. In no small way helped by other countries doing the same.

    Talking about managers. There's a huge cross over between the NHS, the public sector more generally, and the private sector. It's been increasing throughout the structure for the past couple of decades. We've discussed this before during your rants around the public service being paid more than the private sector.

    What we need to get cute about is the very top of the tree where very senior and director level folk seen to breeze about in the public, including government ministers, and private sector awarding massive contracts to their pals.
    I like this bit Jack "The drugs giant said the increased price of the drug was still 25% to 40% below the cost of an equivalent medicine by another supplier to the NHS"

    Basically "Our stuff might be overpriced but theirs is more overpriced" Hardly a defence
    They're gone, not here, forgotten
    The maroon brigade now cry
    The city is now Hibernian
    The team that would not die


    [© Daddy O'Hibee]



    If you don’t know what introspection is, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself

  37. #37
    A True Gadgie/Gadgess

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    1,155
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    118 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The reports we're discussing on education only started in 2000. From the chart in the BBC report it could be argued education, as run by Westminster policies in Scotland, were in decline and continued as such under Labour and it was only when Scotland elected a SNP the fall was arrested.

    Your comments on the NHS are, as always, funny.
    I'm being pedantic here and adding nothing to the debate, but the Scottish education system has never had anything to do with Westminster. We're on our own here, for good or bad.

  38. #38
    Radge Monthly Contributor






    emerald green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Far away
    Posts
    3,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    949 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    718
    Quote Originally Posted by hibs1986 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm being pedantic here and adding nothing to the debate, but the Scottish education system has never had anything to do with Westminster. We're on our own here, for good or bad.
    Excellant post. Some people arnae really aware of Education in Scotland and think our "poor" education could be a result of Devolution

    Only good really comes from Westminster you see, and if they arnae running the gig, then the gig is up the pole!

    Our law is quite different also... england being more into tort for example

  39. #39
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Quote Originally Posted by hibs1986 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm being pedantic here and adding nothing to the debate, but the Scottish education system has never had anything to do with Westminster. We're on our own here, for good or bad.
    Not strictly true. Yes before devolution education in Scotland wasn't part of the Department of Education in Whitehall with responsibility for England & Wales but the Scottish Office with the education minister was very much part of Westminster.

  40. #40
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Quote Originally Posted by emerald green View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Excellant post. Some people arnae really aware of Education in Scotland and think our "poor" education could be a result of Devolution

    Only good really comes from Westminster you see, and if they arnae running the gig, then the gig is up the pole!

    Our law is quite different also... england being more into tort for example
    And apparently I'm the troll...

    You seriously believing those that haven't been persuaded of the merits of Scottish Independence believe that Westminster is some place without many many faults and wrongs?

    My point with regards to devolution (that I campaigned and voted for and want much more) was to point out that it appears to have not improved education standards.

  41. #41
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    Quote Originally Posted by emerald green View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Excellant post. Some people arnae really aware of Education in Scotland and think our "poor" education could be a result of Devolution

    Only good really comes from Westminster you see, and if they arnae running the gig, then the gig is up the pole!

    Our law is quite different also... england being more into tort for example
    Equally WM can't be blamed for failings in Scottish education

  42. #42
    Radge Monthly Contributor






    emerald green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Far away
    Posts
    3,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    949 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    718
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And apparently I'm the troll...

    You seriously believing those that haven't been persuaded of the merits of Scottish Independence believe that Westminster is some place without many many faults and wrongs?

    My point with regards to devolution (that I campaigned and voted for and want much more) was to point out that it appears to have not improved education standards.


    Always with the negative waves moriarty.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Equally WM can't be blamed for failings in Scottish education
    Never thought otherwise Eeg, and never have I insinuated that....

    My stance on anything and everything to do with Scotland doesn't start whith....hmmmm who's got ultimate control here () and then base my arguement on some entrenched position on feckin Scottish Indy!!

    I could rip the arse out of the SNP and the Scottish Parish Council, and I could rip the arse out of the disgusting state of UK / WM politics!

    Naeones ever told me what the fecking point of the Scottish Parliament is? IT DOESNT HAVE CONTROL OF ITS OWN AFFAIRS. Its just another ridiculously expensive layer of beaurocracy in a $#@!e building which cost us hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds!

    Everything seems cool in the gang because we have the word "Scottish" in front of everything...

  43. #43
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Quote Originally Posted by emerald green View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Naeones ever told me what the fecking point of the Scottish Parliament is? IT DOESNT HAVE CONTROL OF ITS OWN AFFAIRS.
    It has had full control of Education since 1999.

  44. #44
    Radge Private Member





    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    A stool at the bar
    Posts
    11,083
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    141 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    4205 Post(s)
    vCash
    1562
    Rep Power
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It has had full control of Education since 1999.
    Based on the pocket money it receives.

    For anyone that isn't aware before devolution Scotland had the Scottish Office, as mentioned by Smurf. The job of the Scottish Office was to implement policies determined by Westminster. These were in areas where Scotland was always that little bit different, education, legal system, rural stuff, development stuff, home affairs (police, prisons etc.) and of course health. There were other wee bits and bobs.

    Come devolution the Scottish Parliament could go it's own way but in reality with Labour in both parliaments nothing much changed. If Westminster or their government departments sneezed Scotland caught a cold!

    All that changed when the SNP came to power. The seriousness of the non collaboration between the likes of the Health Department down south became quite ridiculously pretty. Where your opposite number was happy to chat all of a sudden they became unavailable. Where there had been collaboration for years, on the release of stats together for example, the DofH worked together but then all of a sudden would release a media statement without warning or give their Scottish counterparts 15 minutes notice. Don't mention to me thieving ideas or I might get quite cross!

    We were told this wasn't happening but it clearly was.

    I assume the same happened with the other departments.

    One thing I noticed when the SNP came to power, particularly with the NHS, was a willingness to collaborate and work with stakeholders to the point they were actually given stuff where there was a problem and asked to come back with a solution! That was the polar opposite of what had happened previously.

    I can't understand why it's only now that the same approach seems to be being used in education.

    It it without doubt that the Scottish NHS is outperforming England, which is probably why we haven't heard much about targets recently. I did hear that since the bad days of about a year ago when both countries were failing Scotland has been hitting theirs while England continue to fail.

  45. #45
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    @Jack - as above, Scotland spends more per pupil than England and does worse. Pocket money doesn't seem to be the first problem.

  46. #46
    Radge Private Member
    Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Suburbia
    Posts
    35,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6480 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    1846
    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    @Jack - as above, Scotland spends more per pupil than England and does worse. Pocket money doesn't seem to be the first problem.
    See and this is my difficulty with if at all converting to the Yes side. By @Jack saying "Pocket money" the implication from a Yes voter such as Jack is that Scotland is somehow being short changed. When the reality is that there's more spent per head of the population in Scotland than England as you say. So is Jack saying that in the event of Scotland being Independent more would be spent? It appears that he absolutely is. If so I would love him to outline how this is possible at a time where we are borrowing £1 for every £4 we spend.

    Great thread this by the way. I was given a $#@!e education. Left primary school unable to construct a sentence let alone a paragraph.

    Some things haven't changed...

  47. #47
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    From the Capital
    Posts
    35,897
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    6401 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    2121
    @Smurf - to be fair K, it's not really different from the typical labour advocates view - if we just had more of other people's money it would fix everything.

    It's a problem I have with yes myself though; with this approach having manifestly failed in the rest of the world - playing a major part in breaking it economically along the way - a lot of folk have seized on this magical idea that in Scotland it will somehow be different. The delicious thing is that until such a time as Indy happens, the dream can be entertained with the added satisfaction of blaming the English.

  48. #48
    Radge Private Member





    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    A stool at the bar
    Posts
    11,083
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    141 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    4205 Post(s)
    vCash
    1562
    Rep Power
    791
    Scotland has been short changed for decades, probably longer, it's short changed now and will be short changed as long as we're in the Union that sees us as a cottage industry.

    There's more spent per head in Scotland, not always the case, but Scotland has almost always produced more per head than rUK. I don't see what the problem is, you get what you're worth. Less a wee bit here and there in billions to keep the Union afloat.

    If anyone thinks this Tory government, who would sell their Granny for loose change and went further than Thatcher dared and sold the Queens head, would keep a loss making part of the UK when they had the opportunity to get shot of it are naive in the extreme. That in itself is the proof of the economic viability of Scotland and that's it's one of the very few regions of the UK to show a profit.

    Anyone else notice Norway declaring a £19bn income from oil? I'm sure I saw that somewhere. Anyone else notice the UKs refusal to declare income from oil this year? Or any year in the last 4 decacades? Bummer eh? Anyone wonder why?

  49. #49
    Radge


    1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Murraystoon
    Posts
    36,292
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    214 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    5533 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    3467
    Bucking the trend a wee bit I know but I have two laddies, one in S5 and another in first year in Uni, one gets straight A's, one gets a mix of A's and B's. State schools, nothing fancy or extra funding, but the teaching is good, the kids have done well and the schools produce lots of smart kids.

    I worked abroad for many years and came home to ensure my kids got a Scottish education. I am glad I did.
    nil satis nisi optimum

  50. #50
    Donator
    HenryLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1170 Post(s)
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Based on the pocket money it receives.
    Scotland is subsidised fiscally by the UK at the moment. So there's no doubt that it has more money to spend than it would have were it independent and the use of that money in education is fully devolved. Pinning this one on England - sorry 'Westminster' - isn't going to work.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Scotland has been short changed for decades, probably longer, it's short changed now and will be short changed as long as we're in the Union that sees us as a cottage industry.

    There's more spent per head in Scotland, not always the case, but Scotland has almost always produced more per head than rUK. I don't see what the problem is, you get what you're worth. Less a wee bit here and there in billions to keep the Union afloat.

    If anyone thinks this Tory government, who would sell their Granny for loose change and went further than Thatcher dared and sold the Queens head, would keep a loss making part of the UK when they had the opportunity to get shot of it are naive in the extreme. That in itself is the proof of the economic viability of Scotland and that's it's one of the very few regions of the UK to show a profit.

    Anyone else notice Norway declaring a £19bn income from oil? I'm sure I saw that somewhere. Anyone else notice the UKs refusal to declare income from oil this year? Or any year in the last 4 decacades? Bummer eh? Anyone wonder why?
    The two parts of this post are first a conspiracy theory which would require figures to be fabricated with the connivance of the Scottish Government and second an invention. Oil revenues were last published in July.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 1875 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Bucking the trend a wee bit I know but I have two laddies, one in S5 and another in first year in Uni, one gets straight A's, one gets a mix of A's and B's. State schools, nothing fancy or extra funding, but the teaching is good, the kids have done well and the schools produce lots of smart kids.

    I worked abroad for many years and came home to ensure my kids got a Scottish education. I am glad I did.
    People get so worked up about education. I mean from a cursory look at the figures it seems like a pretty small slide. Not exactly desirable but hardly the disaster area people are claiming.
    so what do I know

GoGO Back To Forum

Similar Threads

  1. Free(ish) Tables
    By Wannabehibee in forum The Pie Stand
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21-04-15, 20:33
  2. Sex Education
    By Brainwrong in forum Frenchman's Cowshed
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 28-08-13, 13:33
  3. Sex education
    By Hibsean in forum The Pie Stand
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-03-08, 15:21
  4. School League Tables
    By BunnahabhainXXV in forum Frenchman's Cowshed
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-06-07, 22:13
  5. League tables
    By SKII in forum Frenchman's Cowshed
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 23-03-06, 13:34

User Tag List

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •