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Thread: Just back and the tale of two penalties

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    Just back and the tale of two penalties

    By Sauzee it was cold the Jim McLean lower restricted view stood on a seat the whole game stand. Hibs rarely warmed me or my 3000 fellow Hibbys up with their often boring, pish about then hoof it approach. It was like watching Hertz first half. Boyle left his first touch in the hoose, Holt looks like a pub team player, Marv was a yard too slow of pace and thinking, Dylan was out of position, neither Captain Dave or Lewis got a good ball in and we took too long to change things. United took too many touches, scuffed shots, and generally were ineffective. We missed our panalty they scored theirs.

    Too hoof long balls to that hapless huddy of a heifer Holt all game when you couldnae get a sheet of two ply bog paper under his jumps summed up Lennons pish poor approach to the game. I get that we were two very good midfielders down, I get that Jase had ate a cream bun too many a few weeks back but to play that way against the main challengers is not good enough.

    Now the positives. The massive Hibernian support were fantastic 3000 Hibs fans, many cleary having been on a halfy and hauf or two, sang, chanted and cheered the boys on. Pity some of the players didnae show the same passion for our club. The other positive was the much maligned Andrew Shinnie, I am one of his critics, but tonight he was head and shoulders ahead of most of his teammates. Only Darren McGregor showed that same drive and passion in my opinion.

    The Team

    Rocky - Watched a lot of balls drift over the bar, a few went wide and he held the insipid shots that reached him. He had not chance at the penalty.

    Captain David, winning goal scorer in the 2016 Scottish Cup Final and club legend got down the line plenty but his final ball was generally not good enough.

    I thought Darren McGregor was wonderful, he is rock hard ad never gives the bal away. Was he involved in the shambles of the penalty, couldnae see from my seat.

    Paul done fine but lost a few too many challenges for me tonight.

    Liam Fontaine charged up the field,as graceful as Bambi on ice. I think he gave the penalty away?

    Lewis like el Capitano, was up and down the line all night but again the final ball was not good enough. His one good ball received the wrong run from Jason.

    Marvin Bartley was guff, a yard too slow, he can roll a man but cannae tackle, he loses most 50 50's. Hard man my hole. Sorry I really dinnae rate him.

    Dylan appeared to be too deep all game and by doing so he was ineffective. Only looked like the real McGeouch when he pushed forward at the end. What a waste.

    Andrew Shinnie was magnificent, did I say that.Ok, he is a jessie a lot of the time, but he has some lovely footwork, he likes to drive forward and he gave his all the full game.

    Grant Holt is a waste of a XXL Hibs jersey, he doesn't score goals, he dives, his wee flicks rarely bring anything, he cannae jump and he keeps better players out the team. He gives me ideas of a return to football at the age of 50, as I am a lumbering fat guy who used to have a touch. At one point he beat the United right back well but didnae have the two yards of pace to catch the ball. Awful. He got 90 minutes, why?

    Squirrel's first touch let him down tonight, big hoofs to chase down are not his game and his penalty effort was pish. Replaced by Jase.

    The subs

    As aforementioned, Jase come on for penalty duffer Boyle and has our first shot on target at the 80th minute Yup. I would start him next week.

    Graham replaced Bartley with 8 minutes to go, he did very little.

    Eardley came on last minute for Fontaine and put a couple of decent balls into the box.

    I thought the management team got it wrong tonight, the painfully slow Bartley and cringingly poor Holt should have been hooked. Scott Martin must see no future at Hibs. The changes came too late and this punishing of Jason is now getting petty, did Lennon not do this with a Celtic player at one time? Commons? Sort it out Neil, we clearly have a paper thin squad, bolster it with quality and stop playing that huddy Holt, please.

    I thought United were decent, no better than us, but decent with some good players. They even raked out 7000 fans tonight, it will be back to 4500 next home game right enough.

    For the second Hibs game in a row, I thought he referee was very good.

    Man of the Match was Andrew Shinnie, by a country mile. Well played son, keep it up.

    Special note to the support again, 3000 noisy $#@!s, dressed in green and white santa hats, courtesy of Marathon Bet.

    $#@!tiest part of the evening was the view from my seat. See the attached photo.

    Onwards Hibs, we can still win this league.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Thought we were crap tonight! Could of played all night and still not scored. It's amazing how much we miss "super" how we are going to create chances without him, I dread to think!
    Thanks for the report again Mark.


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    I'm just back also, and of course disspointed.
    I thought Bartley was one of our better players, he stands up to be counted, and I don't think I seen him miss a challenge all night.
    Holt was only good for taking a pen, and for some reason the bench decided to give it to a guy who had looked off the ball night. Very strange decision I thought, even before he missed it.
    Stevenson continues to rip my knitting. A hard working honest , two medals likeable chap, but very very limited in what he can offer to a team needing a bit guile.
    The defence were only going to lose a goal to a pen. The attack was only going to score one through one. We all know how that worked out.
    Grant Holt would struggle to get a game for East Fife, sorry but if he is the best we can offer we are in trouble. He was lucky to stay on the park, both by the judgement of the ref and our manager.
    Worrying.

    The fans made me proud to be a Hibby , and for that I will be back of course.
    United offered nothing, but beat us . We need a talisman, the one we have is out of favour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tayside hibee View Post
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    I'm just back also, and of course disspointed.
    I thought Bartley was one of our better players, he stands up to be counted, and I don't think I seen him miss a challenge all night.
    Holt was only good for taking a pen, and for some reason the bench decided to give it to a guy who had looked off the ball night. Very strange decision I thought, even before he missed it.
    Stevenson continues to rip my knitting. A hard working honest , two medals likeable chap, but very very limited in what he can offer to a team needing a bit guile.
    The defence were only going to lose a goal to a pen. The attack was only going to score one through one. We all know how that worked out.
    Grant Holt would struggle to get a game for East Fife, sorry but if he is the best we can offer we are in trouble. He was lucky to stay on the park, both by the judgement of the ref and our manager.
    Worrying.

    The fans made me proud to be a Hibby , and for that I will be back of course.
    United offered nothing, but beat us . We need a talisman, the one we have is out of favour.
    Bartley can wrestle a ball, he never won a 50 50 on the ground all night mate. He flatters to deceive.
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    I thought Bartley played ok tonight to be honest. Agree about Holt, he doesn't do enough and Squirrel shouldn't have taken that penalty. We really miss Super J and Fyvie from the midfield.

    We'll still win the league though
    They're gone, not here, forgotten
    The maroon brigade now cry
    The city is now Hibernian
    The team that would not die


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    Quote Originally Posted by 1875 View Post
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    $#@!tiest part of the evening was the view from my seat. See the attached photo.

    Onwards Hibs, we can still win this league.
    Jings! Surprised you didnae aw faw aff!!

    Thanks for the report.
    Space to let

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    Jings! Surprised you didnae aw faw aff!!

    Thanks for the report.
    I am $#@!e at attaching photos. I sat on a barrier all night, I couldnae see a thing from my seat, including the east goalmouth!
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
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    We'll still win the league though
    I've heard this since the summer. Not personal towards you but I think this confidence is more hope than reality. I think we've gone backwards. Pressure is on us. Dundee Utd got off to a bad start but have recovered well. I think they are mediocre but we struggle to take our chances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    I've heard this since the summer. Not personal towards you but I think this confidence is more hope than reality. I think we've gone backwards. Pressure is on us. Dundee Utd got off to a bad start but have recovered well. I think they are mediocre but we struggle to take our chances.
    I honestly think we will buy our way out the league this year

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    Boyle should never been allowed to take a penalty after admitting on the Time For Heroes DVD that he completely miss hit his penalty against Dundee United in the semi final win!

    Also, I never got a Santa hat tonight. Absolutely gutted.

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    This still says we are champions

    As long as it says the same thing come may ill be happy

    Think a few signings will be made in january... that will freshen things up...

    For the record... shot was same as boyles
    Keeper dives wrong way... classed as cool... whereas boyles classed as $#@!e

    They aint anything special and are more likely to drop points than us imo... we played rank and i think we were unlucky to lose



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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    I've heard this since the summer. Not personal towards you but I think this confidence is more hope than reality. I think we've gone backwards. Pressure is on us. Dundee Utd got off to a bad start but have recovered well. I think they are mediocre but we struggle to take our chances.
    I'm trying to stay positive K
    They're gone, not here, forgotten
    The maroon brigade now cry
    The city is now Hibernian
    The team that would not die


    [© Daddy O'Hibee]



    If you don’t know what introspection is, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1875 View Post
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    Bartley can wrestle a ball, he never won a 50 50 on the ground all night mate. He flatters to deceive.
    Mark, I really like and appreciate your write ups and views on the games.
    But for me, the whole team flattered to deceive tonight. Marv done his job , which is to win his battles , others in our proud badge didn't

    The fiasco at the penalty, with Holt about to take , then an apparent message from the bench changing things , is more a worrying sign than anything else tonight.
    Surely a pro team know who is on the pens before a game begins.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tayside hibee View Post
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    Mark, I really like and appreciate your write ups and views on the games.
    But for me, the whole team flattered to deceive tonight. Marv done his job , which is to win his battles , others in our proud badge didn't

    The fiasco at the penalty, with Holt about to take , then an apparent message from the bench changing things , is more a worrying sign than anything else tonight.
    Surely a pro team know who is on the pens before a game begins.?
    Neil Lennon stated on the post match BBC radio interview that Boyle was the designated penalty taker. I noted Holt shouting and pointing at his team mates regularly through out the match.

    Marvin won very, very few battles.
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1875 View Post
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    Marvin Bartley was guff, a yard too slow, he can roll a man but cannae tackle, he loses most 50 50's. Hard man my hole. Sorry I really dinnae rate.
    I agreed with most of your report but you need to get over your Bartley bias. He was good tonight, probably one of the better players on the park. In fact he has been one of our most consistent players over the last season and a half. Vastly underrated IMO.

    Boyle and Holt had a $#@!e game. Their replacements were brought on too late. That's why we lost.

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    Whatever Lennons problem is with Cummings, it needs fixed pronto.

    The guy has scored over 50 goals for us in 2 and a half seasons and he sits on the bench while $#@!ing $#@!e like Holt starts. Someone at Hibs needs to tell this tosspot we need promoted THIS season and his petty $#@!in huffs with our best striker is not the best way of getting there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Headed Boy View Post
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    I agreed with most of your report but you need to get over your Bartley bias. He was good tonight, probably one of the better players on the park. In fact he has been one of our most consistent players over the last season and a half. Vastly underrated IMO.
    In your opinion of course mate, just like Just Back is in mine. I don't say its right, I say its my opinion I think he is slow, brings little to the game and is over rated.

    Agree on Holt an Boyle though.
    nil satis nisi optimum

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    We did a grand job of handing the momentum to United tonight , if you don't take your chances you get punished , how long do we need to say that...

    Boyle did my nut in most of the game , I said a few weeks back consistency was his biggest issue and that showed in spades tonight put some glue on your boots son. Impact player is as good as it gets for squirrel stretch teams as they run oot of puff.

    Holt a player I like Tin helmet on but a striker who doesn't score aint a striker got to be said.

    Shinnie played well tonight sees a pass but sometimes the wrong one , a good all round performance however.

    Stevenson a player I love but football aint about past exploits exit door is looming Lewis.

    Hanlon poor almost everywhere but easily forgiven hes saved our skin millions of times so tonight I save his.

    Macgregor Brilliant.

    We have not improved this season we are worse simple fact. We lost a battle not the war . Can we win the league of course we can but January is going to be very important as united will now also spend.

    Mr Lennon for me so far talks the talk but hasn't walked the walk. After beating queens he said it was the best performance he had seen , everyone was pumping queens and I felt at the time it was not a yard stick to judge the progress of our own team.
    He doesn't know his players well enough , maybe being at the euros did detract from time where he could of gained valuable information on his playing squad . Must do better for me .

    Still all to play for but I cant hide I'm a little angry tonight. We move on.
    Thanks for report M. West is best.........~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Headed Boy View Post
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    I agreed with most of your report but you need to get over your Bartley bias. He was good tonight, probably one of the better players on the park. In fact he has been one of our most consistent players over the last season and a half. Vastly underrated IMO.Boyle and Holt had a $#@!e game. Their replacements were brought on too late. That's why we lost.
    Marv for wasn't match sharp. They countered with a bit of pace and energy, which we don't really have. Dylan will get that if can play a handful of games on the bounce.Boyle scores the penalty we probably win.Once again final ball in to the box was poor from every player

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    The way I see it was that we were pretty poor last night. Hardly surprising given 2 of our most influential players were missing; we couldn't pay to get a decent ball in their penalty box and our passing elsewhere was shocking at times; our strikers were, to be generous, off form.

    They played one of their better games, playing at home with all players available.

    Yet both teams cancelled each other out and the result was decided by 2 penalty kicks.

    We are the stronger club with better players. That will be the difference at the end of the season.
    Space to let

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    Just watched the game now. Thought we were the better side marginally, but didn't create a whole lot. Holt was lucky to stay on the park and was murder. I've said in the past that we don't need Bartley. He's very limited and offers nothing going forward. Why not play a more forward attacking player instead?

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    I really dinnae like Neil Lennon, or his brand of football.

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    That was utter tosh from Hibs last night, not 1 player gets passmarks from me! Piss $#@!in poor

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    Quote Originally Posted by south west hiby View Post
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    We lost a battle not the war.
    We never seem to win the 'battles'.



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    The result was a sore one last night. But we definitely didn't deserve to lose. I thought a draw would have been a fair result.

    How Golem Flood got man of the match I'll never know. I thought their penalty was dubious; our was soft but not dubious!

    As Lennon said Squirrel was the designated penalty taker but it has to be down to a judgement call by Lennon to allow him to take it, given he was off form.
    I must admit I raised an eyebrow when the team was announced; the five at the back turned out to be quite effective but I thought Fonts pushed Barts too far forward out of his comfort zone. Foe me Barts' skills are as a stopper almost like the old sweeper position. He definitely isn't a playmaker and it showed. I agree Shinnie was good. I thought Holt tried hard and was a physical presence. He is operating as a target man.

    Not the end of the world but a warning shot for us. I'm at the Dumbarton match next weekend; a rare foray up north for me sadly. Hopefully we'll be back to winning ways.

    *At the risk of being called a champagne socialist again(thanks for that whoever it was!) will any Bouncers be in the Edinburgh Suite on Saturday?
    Last edited by jock3; 05-12-16 at 20:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    The way I see it was that we were pretty poor last night. Hardly surprising given 2 of our most influential players were missing; we couldn't pay to get a decent ball in their penalty box and our passing elsewhere was shocking at times; our strikers were, to be generous, off form.

    They played one of their better games, playing at home with all players available.

    Yet both teams cancelled each other out and the result was decided by 2 penalty kicks.

    We are the stronger club with better players. That will be the difference at the end of the season.
    Spot on
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I really dinnae like Neil Lennon, or his brand of football.
    I also 'really dinnae like Neil Lennon'. When he became our manager, I had the audacity to question how much of his 'high profile' was due to his off field activities. I never questionned his managerial skills, simply said they had never been fully 'tested' at Celtic, apart from his European run, which was fantastic. At the time, I was lambasted by several contributors who seemed to think he was the 'Second Coming' and we would 'skoosh' this League. Since then, I have never criticised him, as I believe in giving someone time. I have seen some good Hibs' performances ( eg Morton at ER) and some really poor. I agreed that Cummings should be on the bench when his form dropped, but not if it's due to some other reason. I like Shinnie. If he could be a bit stronger he would be a really good player. I think Holt is either really good or awful. He needs someone to play off him. It's ironic that our midfield was our biggest asset and we are now vulnerable due to injuries. We also miss Keatings. Dundee Utd. were always going to be our main challengers, with a manager I always hoped would come to Hibs. So, I am not surprised by where we are in the League ie top, but with a battle. There are contributors who think (?hope) we can 'buy' our way out of this League. I also hope that will happen, but am not confident. We did not sign Andreu or Dobbie when they were available. We are supposedly looking at Pennant. The truth is, it's difficult to recruit players to play in this League. Swanson would be a good signing, but I'm not holding my breath. In summary, whilst I 'dinnae like Neil Lennon', I still think we will win this league, as we would have done with Stubbs. It would be interesting to know what sort of relationship he has with the players...and you never know that until the manager leaves! There are some managers who simply 'fit' a club eg Wright at St. J, Butcher at ICT, Mowbray and Stubbs at Hibs. In my opinion, Lennon does not 'fit' Hibs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
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    Whatever Lennons problem is with Cummings, it needs fixed pronto.

    The guy has scored over 50 goals for us in 2 and a half seasons and he sits on the bench while $#@!ing $#@!e like Holt starts. Someone at Hibs needs to tell this tosspot we need promoted THIS season and his petty $#@!in huffs with our best striker is not the best way of getting there.
    I think Lennon's problem with Cummings is that he's a greedy wee $#@!e who doesnt link up with our other forwards, and nobody else was scoring goals.

    Soon as Cummings got dropped we won 3 on the bounce and goals at last were coming from other players.

    Last week we scored 4 and could have scored 10 we made so many chances. Without help from Cummings.

    But aye sure go for the 'it must be a problem with Lennon' approach cos we lost a game. Pish.

    Keep him on the bench until he learns its a team game.

    And for the record we'd never have won the Scottish Cup if Stubbsy hadnt hooked Cummings. IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Sleeves View Post
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    I think Lennon's problem with Cummings is that he's a greedy wee $#@!e who doesnt link up with our other forwards, and nobody else was scoring goals.

    Soon as Cummings got dropped we won 3 on the bounce and goals at last were coming from other players.

    Last week we scored 4 and could have scored 10 we made so many chances. Without help from Cummings.

    But aye sure go for the 'it must be a problem with Lennon' approach cos we lost a game. Pish.

    Keep him on the bench until he learns its a team game.

    And for the record we'd never have won the Scottish Cup if Stubbsy hadnt hooked Cummings. IMO.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Spot on. After years of Hibs having a reputation for wayward young players, Lennon is imposing some discipline, and it seems like an alien thing.

    We've clearly improved and become more free scoring since Cummings was benched. Yesterday an injury-decimated team lost away to United on penalties. We're all anxious at a third year in this division but perspective is important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Sleeves View Post
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    I think Lennon's problem with Cummings is that he's a greedy wee $#@!e who doesnt link up with our other forwards, and nobody else was scoring goals.

    Soon as Cummings got dropped we won 3 on the bounce and goals at last were coming from other players.

    Last week we scored 4 and could have scored 10 we made so many chances. Without help from Cummings.

    But aye sure go for the 'it must be a problem with Lennon' approach cos we lost a game. Pish.

    Keep him on the bench until he learns its a team game.

    And for the record we'd never have won the Scottish Cup if Stubbsy hadnt hooked Cummings. IMO.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    So to 'teach him a lesson' the answer is to play the useless Holt week after week who contributes the sum total of $#@! all. Good solution, i hope he`s learning his place.
    I started out with nothing and i`ve still got most of it left.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    I've heard this since the summer. Not personal towards you but I think this confidence is more hope than reality. I think we've gone backwards. Pressure is on us. Dundee Utd got off to a bad start but have recovered well. I think they are mediocre but we struggle to take our chances.
    I'll be accused of bed-wetting, of course, but last night had that familiar feeling of inevitability.

    Easily the biggest game of the season so far, winning would have really given us a march and solidified our place, and we did what we've become accustomed to us doing; we lost, following an insipid performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I really dinnae like Neil Lennon, or his brand of football.
    Me too M.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
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    I'll be accused of bed-wetting, of course, but last night had that familiar feeling of inevitability.

    Easily the biggest game of the season so far, winning would have really given us a march and solidified our place, and we did what we've become accustomed to us doing; we lost, following an insipid performance.
    Nah. I was a strident critic of our historical gutlessness but after the glorious events at swinie and hampden last year, that's been put to bed; there's nothing inevitable any more. We didn't roll over as we have so many times, we were as $#@! as united in a $#@! game of football at its most brutally Scottish. And despite all the chips being stacked in their favour, home advantage, full squad, momentum, the result arrived at from penalties.

    We certainly don't look like stick on champions, and there is a long hard way to go, but there's nothing inevitable. Dundee United couldn't beat us at ER in the middle of our slump and with them coming off four wins on the bounce. We have more depth and I consider us favourites. We do need to strengthen in January though - our single biggest problem is Lennon's late arrival preventing that being done properly in the summer.

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    I often wonder if folk watch the same game as I do. Criticising Cummings whilst giving a pass to Boyle for a wee purple patch is what can generally be regarded as being a fringe player makes me wonder.

    Cummings has scored almost 50 goals for Hibs in 100 games, he was scoring prior to his relegation to the bench too.

    It's clearly a personal issue between player and manager, and something Lennon needs to 'manage' better.

    Anyone who's happy to see Boyle starting for Hibs over Cummings is mental.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I often wonder if folk watch the same game as I do. Criticising Cummings whilst giving a pass to Boyle for a wee purple patch is what can generally be regarded as being a fringe player makes me wonder.

    Cummings has scored almost 50 goals for Hibs in 100 games, he was scoring prior to his relegation to the bench too.

    It's clearly a personal issue between player and manager, and something Lennon needs to 'manage' better.

    Anyone who's happy to see Boyle starting for Hibs over Cummings is mental.
    I agree with this. Cummings is IMO undervalued by many fans....same as John Robertson was at Tynecastle for many years. You only really fully appreciate what this sort of striker gives to a club when they are not there. Natural goalscorers are very rare in the modern game and Cummings is certainly one of them. Lennon needs to sort out this situation now and get Jason back leading the line and scoring regularly again. I think this will happen starting next Saturday. I like Martin Boyle. He is decent winger with pace and tenacity and who can chip in with a few goals on occasion. However he is not a main striker in my opinion.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    I often wonder if folk watch the same game as I do. Criticising Cummings whilst giving a pass to Boyle for a wee purple patch is what can generally be regarded as being a fringe player makes me wonder.

    Cummings has scored almost 50 goals for Hibs in 100 games, he was scoring prior to his relegation to the bench too.

    It's clearly a personal issue between player and manager, and something Lennon needs to 'manage' better.

    Anyone who's happy to see Boyle starting for Hibs over Cummings is mental.
    Spot on. Cummings will move onto a bigger stage after Hibs. No way Boyle will. Draw your own conclusions.

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    Agree with your report Mark, I don't know what Neil Lennon sees in Holt, other than a bit of aggression he gave us nothing last night. I think Neil Lennon got the tactics wrong and played into Uniteds hands. They have a big strong defence, we needed the ball on the deck with quick passing on the wrong to get through and around them, high balls and ineffective crossing was not the way to go.

    McGinn and Fyvie are a huge loss to the team, but Utd will go through a rough patch as well, still a long way to go.

    Cummings will get a start on Saturday I'm sure, as should Graham, who is a better option than Holt, that is if Neil continues with the little and large gig. I would prefer Boyle and Cummings, crossing only from set plays and the ball on the deck with a bit of pace. He also has to find a way to get McGeouch and Shinnie to link up.

    Last night was disappointing apart from the fans who brought the passion in spades. Neil Lennon asked for noise, we brought it. It's over to you Neil, give us something to shout and sing about.
    Erin Go Bragh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Sleeves View Post
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    I think Lennon's problem with Cummings is that he's a greedy wee $#@!e who doesnt link up with our other forwards, and nobody else was scoring goals.

    His so called "greediness" has carried the team for 2 full seasons. Seasons with him scoring over 50 goals and his fellow forwards managing to score goals too. Malonga 22 Keatings 13 Stokes 10

    Soon as Cummings got dropped we won 3 on the bounce and goals at last were coming from other players.

    So what? We won 5 on the bounce at the start of the season with him scoring in every game. What does it matter who scores as long as you win?


    Last week we scored 4 and could have scored 10 we made so many chances. Without help from Cummings.

    Cummings has helped us by actually scoring 8 goals. We also scored 4 against Morton with him scoring that day too. I must say I like his help.

    But aye sure go for the 'it must be a problem with Lennon' approach cos we lost a game. Pish.

    I think your viewpoint of Cummings is pish.

    Keep him on the bench until he learns its a team game.

    Absolute fallacy that he is not a team player. A myth that's perpetuated by his haters. Absolutely loved by his teammates too.

    And for the record we'd never have won the Scottish Cup if Stubbsy hadnt hooked Cummings. IMO.

    For the record we wouldn't even be in the Scottish Cup never mind winning it if it wisnae for JC's winning goal against the gunts that brilliant night at ER. This is just taking hate to a new level.

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    Jeezo! Where dae ye start with this?! I'll try...my answers above in bold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Spot on. Cummings will move onto a bigger stage after Hibs. No way Boyle will. Draw your own conclusions.
    It's not just about what Cummings can or can't do, it's about the team as a whole. We don't have a system / line up that produces the ammo that Cummings needs. Boyle running at people has opened up chances that have not opened up with Cummings playing, and the result has been more goals overall, even if Boyle is an even more profligate finisher than Jase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    It's not just about what Cummings can or can't do, it's about the team as a whole. We don't have a system / line up that produces the ammo that Cummings needs. Boyle running at people has opened up chances that have not opened up with Cummings playing, and the result has been more goals overall, even if Boyle is an even more profligate finisher than Jase.
    My gut tells me this 'more goals overall' with Boyle instead of Cummings is wrong.

    Also good shout from @beefy pointing out the flaw in subbing Cummings=winning The SC. Both games against the tramps he scored, without that we're out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    Nah. I was a strident critic of our historical gutlessness but after the glorious events at swinie and hampden last year, that's been put to bed; there's nothing inevitable any more. We didn't roll over as we have so many times, we were as $#@! as united in a $#@! game of football at its most brutally Scottish. And despite all the chips being stacked in their favour, home advantage, full squad, momentum, the result arrived at from penalties.

    We certainly don't look like stick on champions, and there is a long hard way to go, but there's nothing inevitable. Dundee United couldn't beat us at ER in the middle of our slump and with them coming off four wins on the bounce. We have more depth and I consider us favourites. We do need to strengthen in January though - our single biggest problem is Lennon's late arrival preventing that being done properly in the summer.
    Thanks, egb; an eloquent response.

    But, ultimately, I can't help how the game made me feel - and that's all I was really trying to relate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    It's not just about what Cummings can or can't do, it's about the team as a whole. We don't have a system / line up that produces the ammo that Cummings needs. Boyle running at people has opened up chances that have not opened up with Cummings playing, and the result has been more goals overall, even if Boyle is an even more profligate finisher than Jase.
    Nope I'm sorry I'm disagreeing with you. With Cummings in the team we will always have more of a goal threat and score goals than when he's replaced by Boyle. I think the sample is too small to suggest otherwise.

    If I was Cummings I'd ask for a transfer in January if not selected this Saturday. And furthermore Lennon will be taking a serious gamble on his career if he doesn't select Cummings on Saturday.

    Lennon has made a complete arse of his recruitment and we are paying the price. The priority was forwards in the window having lost Stokes, Dagnall, Farid and Malonga. He signed the finished costly Holt and the average Graham.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Nope I'm sorry I'm disagreeing with you. With Cummings in the team we will always have more of a goal threat and score goals than when he's replaced by Boyle. I think the sample is too small to suggest otherwise.

    If I was Cummings I'd ask for a transfer in January if not selected this Saturday. And furthermore Lennon will be taking a serious gamble on his career if he doesn't select Cummings on Saturday.

    Lennon has made a complete arse of his recruitment and we are paying the price. The priority was forwards in the window having lost Stokes, Dagnall, Farid and Malonga. He signed the finished costly Holt and the average Graham.
    Agree with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Nope I'm sorry I'm disagreeing with you. With Cummings in the team we will always have more of a goal threat and score goals than when he's replaced by Boyle. I think the sample is too small to suggest otherwise.
    we've scored as many goals in the six league games Jason has been benched as in the nine before he was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    My gut tells me this 'more goals overall' with Boyle instead of Cummings is wrong.

    Also good shout from @beefy pointing out the flaw in subbing Cummings=winning The SC. Both games against the tramps he scored, without that we're out.
    See above to Smurf - I'm not knocking Jason, or disputing his value in the cup run. However the facts are that we've found the way to goal a lot better since he was benched. I think that's because we don't have the midfield or strike partner to make the chances he needs, and we're better off with Boyle running at people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    we've scored as many goals in the six league games Jason has been benched as in the nine before he was.

    - - - Updated - - -



    See above to Smurf - I'm not knocking Jason, or disputing his value in the cup run. However the facts are that we've found the way to goal a lot better since he was benched. I think that's because we don't have the midfield or strike partner to make the chances he needs, and we're better off with Boyle running at people.
    Aye 13 each. Not a "lot better" really at all. Slightly aye, but surely you cant make this judgement until we play the same amount of games? Why are you disregarding the cup games we have scored in anyway? Add them and we have scored 20. It looks like you're using league games only to suit your argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Sleeves View Post
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    I think Lennon's problem with Cummings is that he's a greedy wee $#@!e who doesnt link up with our other forwards, and nobody else was scoring goals.

    Soon as Cummings got dropped we won 3 on the bounce and goals at last were coming from other players.

    Last week we scored 4 and could have scored 10 we made so many chances. Without help from Cummings.

    But aye sure go for the 'it must be a problem with Lennon' approach cos we lost a game. Pish.

    Keep him on the bench until he learns its a team game.

    And for the record we'd never have won the Scottish Cup if Stubbsy hadnt hooked Cummings. IMO.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Despite your avatar you sound like a blue rinse Tory lady....'hang em, I would do it myself'. Your assertion that Lennon is not playing our top goal scorer because ......'keep him on the bench until he learns its a team game' oh really. I take it that you either have a Mystic Meg insight to Lennon's reasoning or he has told you personally or more likely guessing why he has been dropped. Last night demonstrated exactly why he should be playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy View Post
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    Aye 13 each. Not a "lot better" really at all. Slightly aye, but surely you cant make this judgement until we play the same amount of games? Why are you disregarding the cup games we have scored in anyway? Add them and we have scored 20. It looks like you're using league games only to suit your argument.
    It is a lot better: 2.17 goals a game versus 1.44. In other words, a 50% improvement. If you want to bring in all competitions our record was 1.36 goals per game prior to Cummings benching.

  48. #48
    Radge Private Member


    southfieldhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    See above to Smurf - I'm not knocking Jason, or disputing his value in the cup run. However the facts are that we've found the way to goal a lot better since he was benched. I think that's because we don't have the midfield or strike partner to make the chances he needs, and we're better off with Boyle running at people.
    Stats suggest you're wrong, and your facts are incorrect.

    Cummings 8 goals contributing to 18 points
    1 assist
    98 minutes per goal

    Boyle 4 goals contributing to 14 points
    1 assist
    152 minutes per goal

    Seriously, if you think we function as a team better with Boyle over Cummings we see football differently.

    We've only got 31 points but they both started at QoS giving them both one point

    But Lennon agrees with you and prefers Boyle over JC, which for you, should be a worry!

  49. #49
    Radge Private Member

    egb_hibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
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    Stats suggest you're wrong, and your facts are incorrect.

    Cummings 8 goals contributing to 18 points
    1 assist
    98 minutes per goal

    Boyle 4 goals contributing to 14 points
    1 assist
    152 minutes per goal

    Seriously, if you think we function as a team better with Boyle over Cummings we see football differently.

    We've only got 31 points but they both started at QoS giving them both one point

    But Lennon agrees with you and prefers Boyle over JC, which for you, should be a worry!
    My facts aren't wrong as far as I can see and I'm not trying to compare Boyle and JC as goal scorers, I'm comparing how the team as a whole has performed.

    My starting point is Jason's benching from the Dunfermline game onwards and since then our goals per game has been a lot higher than before. We are playing to a different template and Boyle's running is part of that.

  50. #50
    Easy Now Radge



    beefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southfieldhibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Stats suggest you're wrong, and your facts are incorrect.

    Cummings 8 goals contributing to 18 points
    1 assist
    98 minutes per goal

    Boyle 4 goals contributing to 14 points
    1 assist
    152 minutes per goal

    Seriously, if you think we function as a team better with Boyle over Cummings we see football differently.

    We've only got 31 points but they both started at QoS giving them both one point

    But Lennon agrees with you and prefers Boyle over JC, which for you, should be a worry!
    Thank you for saving me the bother. A bairn with a biscuit erse could see from the off last night that Boyle was having an absolute mare and should have been subbed after 20 mins...he was that bad! I like Boyle, he is one of my faves but $#@!me! keeping yer top striker on the bench for that long when the squirrel 's play was total rank rotten smacks of Lennon being a bit of a $#@! over this stupid feud.

    We win more games with JC playing and it's usually him that scores the winner. That's a fact.

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