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Thread: Is it a loss of form?

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    Is it a loss of form?

    We've not been good for a few weeks now, my esteemed friend Wheathound suggests it's dire again today.

    I realise many have opined that this is a Mickey Mouse cup but it was a strong Hibs team that was put out.

    Is this just a loss of form or as I fear are we lacking something?

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    I'd say after what I've watched since Dumbarton this is hibs
    We offer nothing this result Is a disgrace in my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decal Joe View Post
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    We've not been good for a few weeks now, my esteemed friend Wheathound suggests it's dire again today.

    I realise many have opined that this is a Mickey Mouse cup but it was a strong Hibs team that was put out.

    Is this just a loss of form or as I fear are we lacking something?
    The team, despite being full of immortal legends, has demonstrated for two years that it has not got what it takes to break down parked-bus teams. Our flaws are clear as day an everyone knows them; lack of pace and width, inability and unwillingness to shoot, susceptible to panic at the back.

    This, coupled with tactics ill suited to the task before us have cost us promotion two years in a row. We went backwards in the summer on the personnel front and the tactics have if anything got worse with zonal marking added to the aimless tippy-tappy stuff - something that is just inviting our defence to go into flapping mode.

    It's going to be a long hard season and right now it looks like our best hope lies in others lack of depth. We really $#@!ed up in summer recruitment, or lack of it.

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    We don't have a good blend, plenty good footballers but not a good team.

    We dominate possession but rarely trouble opposition goalkeepers, we are narrow and over elaborate. Teams are prepared to sit in and let us play, safe in the knowledge they will get a chance, either from a set piece or by capitalising on one of our many mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decal Joe View Post
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    We don't have a good blend, plenty good footballers but not a good team.

    We dominate possession but rarely trouble opposition goalkeepers, we are narrow and over elaborate. Teams are prepared to sit in and let us play, safe in the knowledge they will get a chance, either from a set piece or by capitalising on one of our many mistakes.
    Nail on the head mate. This wasn't a one off today. I have real concerns now about our promotion hopes. There wasn't one bright spot today (other than getting knocked out of a pointless tourney). That Harris with a mediocre performance was awarded motm speaks volumes

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    It's a loss of enjoyment too. When did you last see a smile on our players faces during games? When have you ever seen one on the face of the Manager?

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    The team, despite being full of immortal legends, has demonstrated for two years that it has not got what it takes to break down parked-bus teams. Our flaws are clear as day an everyone knows them; lack of pace and width, inability and unwillingness to shoot, susceptible to panic at the back.

    This, coupled with tactics ill suited to the task before us have cost us promotion two years in a row. We went backwards in the summer on the personnel front and the tactics have if anything got worse with zonal marking added to the aimless tippy-tappy stuff - something that is just inviting our defence to go into flapping mode.

    It's going to be a long hard season and right now it looks like our best hope lies in others lack of depth. We really $#@!ed up in summer recruitment, or lack of it.
    Pretty accurate sumation if you ask me.
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    Lack of movement. Lack of desire (bar the odd obvious exception). Nothing up front when Jason is not playing or off the pace. We've not replaced the semblance of creativity we had last season (Dom, Stokes, Hendo) and the new players have not done anywhere near enough. Teams know now to just work hard, close us down, keep us out and they will, inevitably, be given the odd chance at the other end...which is all some teams have needed. Usually from a set piece.

    At the moment, I am starting to fear the players are not wanting the responsibility of being on the ball. So few offerings at throw ins, corners, when a team mate has the ball. It looks like some just don't want the ball. Some are too easily removed from possession when they have it (Shinnie, Boyle and others). Dylan has lost form.

    At the moment, only Fyvie, Hanlon and McGregor look like they actually WANT the ball. As in demanding the ball.

    The three subs today were ineffective. Bartley more so than any - he contributed nothing. Not at the races.

    Next week we are playing the Plastic Jambos. With the Plastic Pantomime Baddie. And the Plastic Jambo Diddy Manager. We can't afford another game of musical statues like today.

    The crowd was very disappointing. It didn't help create any sense of occasion or build momentum. It was a horrid cycle of the crowd sitting talking about how wee the crowd was, the team not doing anything and not getting any sense of momentum from the stands...so the crowd sit even more sedately, not entertained and increasingly concerned. Horrible.

    We're currently Bolton not Celtc.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Mince, that's all. Harris only player with pass marks, get forster out the team along with invisible Shinnie, Boyle and Keatings already a partnership tested by Stubbs and didn't work then and doesn't now. Teams know how to play us, we are worse than last season. It was like a bounce game like to many matches this season
    As for Lennon there is rumours has already lost the dressing room, needs to sort things pronto as I'm no watching this push for the rest of the season.

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    Signing Holt & Graham for goals always appeared a strange one to me. One finished the other garbage. Sorry but it's true.

    Beaten at home already this season from Queen of the South, Ayr United and St Mirren tells the story.

    Since his appointment Lennon has done nothing to convince me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    The team, despite being full of immortal legends, has demonstrated for two years that it has not got what it takes to break down parked-bus teams. Our flaws are clear as day an everyone knows them; lack of pace and width, inability and unwillingness to shoot, susceptible to panic at the back. This, coupled with tactics ill suited to the task before us have cost us promotion two years in a row. We went backwards in the summer on the personnel front and the tactics have if anything got worse with zonal marking added to the aimless tippy-tappy stuff - something that is just inviting our defence to go into flapping mode.It's going to be a long hard season and right now it looks like our best hope lies in others lack of depth. We really $#@!ed up in summer recruitment, or lack of it.
    Played with two wingers today.Loss off form mixed with we aren't that good a team. Winning cup camouflaged problems

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Signing Holt & Graham for goals always appeared a strange one to me. One finished the other garbage. Sorry but it's true.

    Beaten at home already this season from Queen of the South, Ayr United and St Mirren tells the story.

    Since his appointment Lennon has done nothing to convince me.
    No need to apologise Smurf, it IS true.

    And Lennon has done $#@! all to convince me either. Hanlon at LB again today...despite last week. Dearie $#@!in me.
    I started out with nothing and i`ve still got most of it left.




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    Lennon is not a good manager. Hoping the players would get us up this season but our team actually isn't good enough to get promoted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
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    No need to apologise Smurf, it IS true.

    And Lennon has done $#@! all to convince me either. Hanlon at LB again today...despite last week. Dearie $#@!in me.
    It's carbon copy of bad patch last season under Stubbs
    Players who played poorly keep playing
    Hanlon 100% should have played but in his natural position
    A centre half at left back two right sided centre halfs the left back who is a natural centre midfielder on the bench deary $#@!ing me hibs
    This was a diddy cup as we call it but that was bit far off our best team today and st midden who are at rock bottom beat us
    Teams know we are beatable at home and it's showing

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    Said on another thread last week that I would reserve judgement till December, when I expect us to be ahead of the pack by a few points, albeit won't skoosh the league.

    That said, I'm far from convinced and my 'jury is definitely out' on Lennon's ability to maximise what he has at his disposal - we have gone backwards big-time since his social media 'my house, my ball, my rules' comments - is he a man manager? Who knows but we cannot afford NOT to go up this year - don't let the 'defeat in the mickey mouse cup' deflect from the bigger picture - current form is not good enough - we are sterile, no width and quite frankly boring to watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sauzee 1875 View Post
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    It's carbon copy of bad patch last season under Stubbs
    Players who played poorly keep playing
    Hanlon 100% should have played but in his natural position
    A centre half at left back two right sided centre halfs the left back who is a natural centre midfielder on the bench deary $#@!ing me hibs
    This was a diddy cup as we call it but that was bit far off our best team today and st midden who are at rock bottom beat us
    Teams know we are beatable at home and it's showing
    Exactly. I`m not unhappy with Hanlon playing but he`s a CH...(the best we`ve got,imo)...not a LB. Play him at CH and play a LB at LB. Sick and $#@!ing tired of managers who are happy to have players "fill in". We have a proper LB....let him play.
    I started out with nothing and i`ve still got most of it left.




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    What does Crain have to do to get in the team? Said this after game last Sunday when LS was out. LS should have been back in today and PH back in at the back where he is our first choice. One up front???? You can only do this if we have fast wingers who can deliver. WE DON'T


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz View Post
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    No need to apologise Smurf, it IS true.

    And Lennon has done $#@! all to convince me either. Hanlon at LB again today...despite last week. Dearie $#@!in me.
    Decided not to bother today and glad I didn't TBH. After last week playing Hanlon out of position you would have thought Lennon would have learnt....

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    I dont think we have a good manager unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Decided not to bother today and glad I didn't TBH. After last week playing Hanlon out of position you would have thought Lennon would have learnt....
    Yep, you would`ve thought....the 15 000 at ER last week learned it. We knew.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Decided not to bother today and glad I didn't TBH. After last week playing Hanlon out of position you would have thought Lennon would have learnt....
    It's is scarey that Lennon didn't learn.
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    I don't yet concur with most thoughts.Early in the season and we sit second in the league and we have been playing poorly.We will improve because I think Lennon has ability.
    As for Hanlon playing LB I agreed this was something to look at and I'm happy Lennon agreed.Now so far delivery has let Paul down but after a good performance from Foster last week it came as no surprise to me Lennon tried it once more good idea which doesn't look like it might work but had to be tried to shake things up a bit so I fully get what Lennon was upto and am supportive of the idea.
    However now Lennon needs thrust back in the team and that starts at CH so Paul should now return to his favoured position after the experiment which imo worked two thirds.
    Back to basics is the only way when things aren't going your way.
    As for signings Shinnie needs games and man up a bit.Holt very intelligent player but now lacks goals that's a worry.BG is a see ya at back post kind a guy so ffs put the baw in areas to help the guy.Goalie is better than Oxley not sure that's a compliment.
    The players are under performing time to man up boys and Lennon needs to stop tinkering and decide on a settled team and work work work with it and the worm will turn.

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    Lennon has to shoulder some blame, but the board royally screwed us over. Yes I probably sound like a broken records, but no way in hell did that season ticket money get reinvested in the squad. Bought cheap, pish players and it's showing. Didn't bring any quality in, and started the season with a weaker squad than last year. Rather than push the boat out to guarantee promotion, the club decided to penny pinch and hope we scrape top spot. Absolute disgrace!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve20 View Post
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    Lennon is not a good manager. Hoping the players would get us up this season but our team actually isn't good enough to get promoted.
    Far too early to be coming to a conclusion like that. We are on a bad run of form no doubts about that and it has to be sorted out very quickly, but we did win our first five league matches of this season for the first time in 40 years and beat a decent European team away from home. I am as annoyed as anyone at the current malaise, but we have to stick together as a club and put our trust in the manager who was recruited in the summer. This squad of players should be more than capable of winning this league, it's Lennon's job along with his staff to ensure that we start scoring goals on a much more regular basis than we have been and we win the vast majority of the matches we play this season.

    Lennon was recruited due to his experience in management which included managing a huge club...a club which was expected to win the league they were in just as we are this season. He is used to dealing with this pressure and we have to continue to keep putting our trust in him. Lennon's future as a manager in the game depends on Hibs being promoted this season. He is being paid a very good salary to ensure we win the league. This must happen for the very future of the club is at stake.
    "I can't stress enough how important it is to be in possession of the football - it is better to be the matador rather than the bull"

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    His managerial career is also at stake and he will know this.
    Everyone needs to pull together and get out this division

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTortolano View Post
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    Lennon has to shoulder some blame, but the board royally screwed us over. Yes I probably sound like a broken records, but no way in hell did that season ticket money get reinvested in the squad. Bought cheap, pish players and it's showing. Didn't bring any quality in, and started the season with a weaker squad than last year. Rather than push the boat out to guarantee promotion, the club decided to penny pinch and hope we scrape top spot. Absolute disgrace!
    It most likely went on the manager
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    We need to get Dylan playing and Shinnie to play like he did at the start. These are the guys who will open up opposing teams and with both misfiring, we don't look like doing that. On a related point, while super is super I don't think he is quite as super as we sometimes tell ourselves. Until he can start winning matches for us there's a bit of an inflated Rep there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    It most likely went on the manager
    I would doubt that, for year one anyway. We got good compensation for Stubbs and his team (a year?) and we're only employing Parker in place of Holden and Doolan.
    GGTTH

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    We need to get Dylan playing and Shinnie to play like he did at the start. These are the guys who will open up opposing teams and with both misfiring, we don't look like doing that. On a related point, while super is super I don't think he is quite as super as we sometimes tell ourselves. Until he can start winning matches for us there's a bit of an inflated Rep there.
    Agreed Mcginn can be a joy to watch occasionally.At times he needs to get his head up.
    He's young therefore inconsistent displays are understandable . John has the potential to be the catalyst of thrust in our team and run teams over , be the leader the heartbeat but I need more from him and his teammates at this juncture.You find out more about players when things are not going well than at any other time , and I would sit them down and tell them so.My we are all in this together speech
    Over tae you Mr Lennon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    We need to get Dylan playing and Shinnie to play like he did at the start. These are the guys who will open up opposing teams and with both misfiring, we don't look like doing that. On a related point, while super is super I don't think he is quite as super as we sometimes tell ourselves. Until he can start winning matches for us there's a bit of an inflated Rep there.
    Said as much last week. He was murder, but appears bulletproof. No player should be beyond reproach, especially when we're as sh!te as we currently are.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    It most likely went on the manager
    I think the compensation and wages Stubbs and his team were on probably writes that off. I also think with the amount of players that left us, and ones brought in the wage bill is probably lower than last year. That includes the new contracts to Hanlon and Cummings. If you look at all the players that left, it adds up. So now you have all the season ticket money and money from the SC win. Where has it gone? Our board kept telling is the more tickets sold the bigger the budget. That window was a discrace, zero quality brought in and typical penny pinching by the club. Rather than pay Celtic a fee for Henderson, we are gambling on him coming for nothing when his contracts out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTortolano View Post
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    I think the compensation and wages Stubbs and his team were on probably writes that off. I also think with the amount of players that left us, and ones brought in the wage bill is probably lower than last year. That includes the new contracts to Hanlon and Cummings. If you look at all the players that left, it adds up. So now you have all the season ticket money and money from the SC win. Where has it gone? Our board kept telling is the more tickets sold the bigger the budget. That window was a discrace, zero quality brought in and typical penny pinching by the club. Rather than pay Celtic a fee for Henderson, we are gambling on him coming for nothing when his contracts out.
    From what has been said about Stubbs' wage, it wasn't astronomical - reflecting his inexperience. Lennon will be on significantly more. The players like Hendo and Stokes were on loan and so it is very likely Celtc were picking up a significant proportion of their wages, as would be the norm in such situations. I hope we are not paying silly money to Holt...but I wouldn't be surprised. The unknown in all of this is how much the lawyers bill is going to be for the SC aftermath. We maybe didn't get fined but we will have paid handsomely for the privilege in lawyer's fees. I also wonder whether the club have held back money for fear of being hammered by the beaks.

    Whatever the reason - financial prudence, fear of being hammered financially after the final, Lennon's wages - there is no getting away from the fact the recruitment system has failed this close season. We were definitely playing hard ball with players trying to get more money out of us (Scott McDonald) and so it is not surprising they would have had a limit for dealing with the Great Unwashed. Regardless of all the ins and outs, what is galling is the fact that the likes of QotS seem to have been able to pick up someone like Dobbie...and it can't be on big money.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    I hope we are not paying silly money to Holt...but I wouldn't be surprised.
    I think he must be on decent money. I don't think he'd be commuting up here if not... interesting that he was commentating for BBC Norwich as Norwich collapsed in the final few minutes at St James Park the other week.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    what is galling is the fact that the likes of QotS seem to have been able to pick up someone like Dobbie...and it can't be on big money.
    And Lennon managed him previously...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    From what has been said about Stubbs' wage, it wasn't astronomical - reflecting his inexperience. Lennon will be on significantly more. The players like Hendo and Stokes were on loan and so it is very likely Celtc were picking up a significant proportion of their wages, as would be the norm in such situations. I hope we are not paying silly money to Holt...but I wouldn't be surprised. The unknown in all of this is how much the lawyers bill is going to be for the SC aftermath. We maybe didn't get fined but we will have paid handsomely for the privilege in lawyer's fees. I also wonder whether the club have held back money for fear of being hammered by the beaks.

    Whatever the reason - financial prudence, fear of being hammered financially after the final, Lennon's wages - there is no getting away from the fact the recruitment system has failed this close season. We were definitely playing hard ball with players trying to get more money out of us (Scott McDonald) and so it is not surprising they would have had a limit for dealing with the Great Unwashed. Regardless of all the ins and outs, what is galling is the fact that the likes of QotS seem to have been able to pick up someone like Dobbie...and it can't be on big money.
    100% agree, our recruitment during the summer was shocking. Lennon away for the world cup for most of it, and starting our European campaign without a goalkeeper. It was crucial that we bought in a couple of quality players. We were looking at Hendo, McDonald and the young talent from St Mirren. Got none of them and scrambled about for loan signings. It's obvious that any decent talent that's out of contract in the summer will be snapped up quickly. We did nothing for weeks.

    The board should have known what the team lacked and needed. It was obvious that we relied too heavily on goals from Cummings and a lack of width and goals from midfield needed addressed. Sadly nothing was done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    I think he must be on decent money. I don't think he'd be commuting up here if not... interesting that he was commentating for BBC Norwich as Norwich collapsed in the final few minutes at St James Park the other week.
    ..
    I suspect his wages are nearer the top end of the Hibs payscale. He's commuting to East Anglia every weekend, as you say, maintaining a flat in the city centre and is definitely a man about town. You wouldn't be doing all that on a shoestring. Seems a decent enough bloke but I reckon we're paying way over the odds for it. God only knows what they might have paid Emile Heskey, if Lennon had got his way.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    I suspect his wages are nearer the top end of the Hibs payscale. He's commuting to East Anglia every weekend, as you say, maintaining a flat in the city centre and is definitely a man about town. You wouldn't be doing all that on a shoestring. Seems a decent enough bloke but I reckon we're paying way over the odds for it. God only knows what they might have paid Emile Heskey, if Lennon had got his way.
    So there was truth in that rumour?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    So there was truth in that rumour?!
    Yes. Heskey confirmed it. Lennon asked if he fancied a wee stint up here for us. He said he wanted to concentrate on his coaching badges down south.

    I saw Bolton play at Anfield when both were still on that rail wreck of a journey. It was not pretty. I know that him playing against an EPL side is a different scenario to being up here but Heskey was finished years ago.
    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    Yes. Heskey confirmed it. Lennon asked if he fancied a wee stint up here for us. He said he wanted to concentrate on his coaching badges down south.

    I saw Bolton play at Anfield when both were still on that rail wreck of a journey. It was not pretty. I know that him playing against an EPL side is a different scenario to being up here but Heskey was finished years ago.
    My low confidence in Lennon has just plummeted....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKII View Post
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    Regardless of all the ins and outs, what is galling is the fact that the likes of QotS seem to have been able to pick up someone like Dobbie...and it can't be on big money.
    Watched QOS v Linfield this afternoon on Alba and Dobbie was very impressive. Looked leaner than I can ever recall him being in his entire career. Can we no swap him for Holt?!
    "Life goes by pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller

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