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    Submission

    Following the failure to keep events from Germany's new year under a lid, and I don't mean everyday stuff like Munich having to go into lockdown, comments from the mayor of Cologne are now beyond the bitterest parody. As has finally made the msm, German cities saw mass sexual harassment and assault of women by crowds of North Africans, in some cases hundreds strong.

    This is bad enough but, in a western world busy telling it's students that a kiss without a countersigned consent form is next to violent rape, the mayor of cologne is advising that the solution to avoiding more of the same in future, is a code of conduct...for women. Cologne is famous in Germany as the Mardi Gras town, but it looks like the carnival is over unless German women learn to stop acting like strumpets. Dress codes next, perhaps.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6798186.html

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    That's horrible. Looks to have been an orchestrated attack by criminals already in Germany and already known to the police who, happen to be brown. Read a piece where they're saying at the bells they threw fireworks into the crowd as a distraction then rushed in and groped/assaulted them and pickpocketed folk.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainwrong View Post
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    That's horrible. Looks to have been an orchestrated attack by criminals already in Germany and already known to the police who, happen to be brown. Read a piece where they're saying at the bells they threw fireworks into the crowd as a distraction then rushed in and groped/assaulted them and pickpocketed folk.


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    not sure about that - there's a lot of spin going on as there has clearly been an effort to keep it quiet. it happened in more than one city, to many women, though cologne was the biggest. In any case, it's the mayors approach that is truly dispiriting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    not sure about that - there's a lot of spin going on as there has clearly been an effort to keep it quiet. it happened in more than one city, to many women, though cologne was the biggest. In any case, it's the mayors approach that is truly dispiriting.
    Yep, that was just the description police gave of Cologne.

    I agree with the way it looks like it's been covered up from an MSM perspective.

    But, I think it could easily be just as likely that over here at least, there're no solid facts coming out of Germany. Which I think would partially explain the lack of coverage.

    However, if it were skin heads, they'd probably not wait for facts...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainwrong View Post
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    Yep, that was just the description police gave of Cologne.

    I agree with the way it looks like it's been covered up from an MSM perspective.

    But, I think it could easily be just as likely that over here at least, there're no solid facts coming out of Germany. Which I think would partially explain the lack of coverage.

    However, if it were skin heads, they'd probably not wait for facts...


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    I believe it took several days to make it into the German press. It happened in Hamburg also, and if the cologne mayors 'other cities' comment is grammatically precise, then perhaps more widely than that, with other instances still waiting to make it to the MSM.

    Edit - Stuttgart also

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    I believe it took several days to make it into the German press. It happened in Hamburg also, and if the cologne mayors 'other cities' comment is grammatically precise, then perhaps more widely than that, with other instances still waiting to make it to the MSM.
    Didn't mean to brush over the Mayor's victim blaming nonsense. She can get to $#@! with that pish.


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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    not sure about that - there's a lot of spin going on as there has clearly been an effort to keep it quiet. it happened in more than one city, to many women, though cologne was the biggest. In any case, it's the mayors approach that is truly dispiriting.
    There's a lot of spin going on by someone alright and it's by you. I was expecting the code of conduct to be 'wear only long trousers, neck high tops, only drink one glass of wine and don't leave house after sunset' they way you went on.

    Instead it says "maintaining an arm’s length distance from strangers, to stick within your own group, to ask bystanders for help or to intervene as a witness, or to inform the police if you are the victim of such an assault." Real controversial victim-blaming, western-hating PC nonsense there.

    Not that I'm an ostrich about the problem. I'm broadly pro-refugee but these single men are coming from countries with a Neanderthal view of women and have been brought up to believe every European is a promiscuous nymphomaniac. There's going to be serious problems when the two cultures collide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The__Proclaimer View Post
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    There's a lot of spin going on by someone alright and it's by you. I was expecting the code of conduct to be 'wear only long trousers, neck high tops, only drink one glass of wine and don't leave house after sunset' they way you went on.

    Instead it says "maintaining an arm’s length distance from strangers, to stick within your own group, to ask bystanders for help or to intervene as a witness, or to inform the police if you are the victim of such an assault." Real controversial victim-blaming, western-hating PC nonsense there.
    you just concocted that though. Irrespective of what 'you expected' and I didn't say, the approach taken by the mayor is strikingly at odds with western norms. Can you imagine any other circumstances where there wouldn't be an apocalyptic stramash were a politician to state that the way for women to avoid sexual assault is not to stand too close to people when out and about? Moreover, it clearly signals a change in tone for Germany's party town which again is hard to imagine under other circumstances.

    These things are plenty without your straw men attempts to deflect from it.

    Not that I'm an ostrich about the problem. I'm broadly pro-refugee but these single men are coming from countries with a Neanderthal view of women and have been brought up to believe every European is a promiscuous nymphomaniac. There's going to be serious problems when the two cultures collide.
    I agree; and the answer is surely not for western leaders to be submissive in the face of resulting problems?

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    you just concocted that though. Irrespective of what 'you expected' and I didn't say, the approach taken by the mayor is strikingly at odds with western norms. Can you imagine any other circumstances where there wouldn't be an apocalyptic stramash were a politician to state that the way for women to avoid sexual assault is not to stand too close to people when out and about? Moreover, it clearly signals a change in tone for Germany's party town which again is hard to imagine under other circumstances.

    These things are plenty without your straw men attempts to deflect from it.


    I agree; and the answer is surely not for western leaders to be submissive in the face of resulting problems?
    If I get off the bus at the same time as a young woman late at night whose going the same way down the dark street I live I always deliberately speed up or slow down so there's a decent distance between us. That's not anti-western that's common sense. If there'd been 80 sexual assaults in 24hrs in my area I'd cross the road nevermind keep an arms length. You're looking to be offended.

    As for tackling these specific immigrants I don't know how to beat such a mind set without going down some REAL anti-western routes. With religious extremists trying their best to create more division on top of the social unrest that already exists I can't see this integration of young single men being anywhere as smooth as we had with the family-oriented Sikh and Hindu immigrants last century. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The__Proclaimer View Post
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    If I get off the bus at the same time as a young woman late at night whose going the same way down the dark street I live I always deliberately speed up or slow down so there's a decent distance between us. That's not anti-western that's common sense. If there'd been 80 sexual assaults in 24hrs in my area I'd cross the road nevermind keep an arms length. You're looking to be offended.
    no I'm not I'm speaking the truth and you know it.

    I'd do the same as you, but we're not talking about common sense we're talking about received wisdom and what is and is not acceptable for politicians or the like to say. You know fine what I'm talking about; in any other context a leading political leader responding to an outbreak of sexual violence by advocating women don't stand too close to men or the like (why stop there, she could have said don't get drunk, ideally have a male escort etc - all 'common sense' protection measures if we're to believe you that such an approach has any currency) would bring the roof down. Bloody hell, a world wide 'slut walk' movement was born when a regular joe polis man said something to the effect.

    Male students at umpteen universities are now forced to attend compulsory classes on how to avoid being a rapist. That's closer to the western norm of the day: we'll see if something similar is added to immigration or citizenship criteria.

    You ken fine that this is an atypical response, and I suspect you also Ken fine it corresponds to a pattern where western norms - whether common sense based or PC bat$#@! mental - are swiftly set to one side when they clash with other PC bat$#@! mentalism. So it looks here.

    As for tackling these specific immigrants I don't know how to beat such a mind set without going down some REAL anti-western routes. With religious extremists trying their best to create more division on top of the social unrest that already exists I can't see this integration of young single men being anywhere as smooth as we had with the family-oriented Sikh and Hindu immigrants last century. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
    It's going to get worse, for sure. Not sure if it will get better. It's not inevitable that everything eventually conforms to our liberal wisdom. If anything, history suggests that's a fanciful notion.

    Extremism breeds extremism as well - some of the things you mention, plus the runaway extremism of indigenous PC are going to just keep fuelling the far right, especially when mainstream politicians are as supine as this mayor. I don't think it's going to work out and in the long run is more a threat to Europe than whatever ISIL are doing far away.

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    Just what you always wanted, eeg...

    Cologne attacks: mayor lambasted for telling women to keep men at arm's length | World news | The Guardian

    - - - Updated - - -

    Christopher Lauer, a politician, tweeted: “Man: “I had intended to mug this woman and molest her, but $#@!! She’s an arm’s length away from me!”
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    This has hardly been given any media coverage whatsoever.

    Thankfully we have a UK Government not prepared to allow hundreds of thousands in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Thankfully we have a UK Government not prepared to allow hundreds of thousands in.
    I suspect most of the perpetrators could live here any time they wanted to. I'm not sure this is really an immigration issue, there are hundreds of thousands of Arabs / N Africans already living in the UK and we've not had this problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibadelic View Post
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    I suspect most of the perpetrators could live here any time they wanted to. I'm not sure this is really an immigration issue, there are hundreds of thousands of Arabs / N Africans already living in the UK and we've not had this problem.
    My understanding is that the perpetrators in Germany are recently arrived?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainwrong View Post
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    Just what you always wanted, eeg...

    Cologne attacks: mayor lambasted for telling women to keep men at arm's length | World news | The Guardian

    - - - Updated - - -

    Christopher Lauer, a politician, tweeted: “Man: “I had intended to mug this woman and molest her, but $#@!! She’s an arm’s length away from me!”
    Just what I always wanted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    My understanding is that the perpetrators in Germany are recently arrived?
    Nope. I mentioned earlier in the thread, the ****s were already known to the polis. They just happened to be brown.


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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    Just what I always wanted?
    It made the Guardian.

    Joke, man.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainwrong View Post
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    It made the Guardian.

    Joke, man.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hibadelic View Post
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    I suspect most of the perpetrators could live here any time they wanted to. I'm not sure this is really an immigration issue, there are hundreds of thousands of Arabs / N Africans already living in the UK and we've not had this problem.
    I don't know if that's true, and I also don't know if it's not. Iirc correctly there are around 2m Muslims in the UK most of whom i was under the impression were from Indian sub continent roots. I've seen it given as a reason we have less problems with domestic unrest compared with French etc North African (predominantly) Muslim population and colonial history that pertains there, as well as different regional cultures today. I don't know how accurate this view is.

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    To be fair the advice by the mayor seems fair enough although I'd maybe suggest it applies equally to mixed groups and groups of men. It's about keeping safe, particularly in busy places and large crowds when there's $#@! loads of distractions. Common sense precautions the pity is folk need to be reminded.

    I suspect the police are doing something about the criminals. It might have reflected better on the mayor if she was able to lead with a story that arrests had already been made rather than saying we already knew who they were but had no idea 1,000s of them were planning this sort of thing.

    When I were a lad the Stasi would have had this sorted before it begun!
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    Seems the truth about this is slowly coming out. Most are asylum seekers....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    Seems the truth about this is slowly coming out. Most are asylum seekers....
    I don't see why anybody would think it a positive if they were not, as I see it that would be far worse; it would suggest that western values are not taking hold among people settled and born here. That's a far more serious thing in the big picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    My understanding is that the perpetrators in Germany are recently arrived?
    That isn't what they said on the news though. They clearly stated that most of the men involved were believed to be long time residents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
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    That isn't what they said on the news though. They clearly stated that most of the men involved were believed to be long time residents.
    Papers I have read quoting plenty of accounts from police sources that there were immigrants among those huckled. Probably a mix of both - it seems the most obvious thing after all.

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    Sounds like police, fearing a race riot, deliberately hung back. If it was a large group of Cologne football fans acting rowdy there's no doubt in my mind they'd have been steaming in with batons in no time.

    Even if these guys were recent immigrants/refugees lets not forget about the family men and their young kids trudging across Europe in the snow right now looking for somewhere to settle. These young men with their neanderthal views may never integrate but let's not take it out on the families who hopefully never forget the kindness shown to them by their new hosts and grow up to be decent German or UK nationals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy View Post
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    Reminiscent of the reports coming out ibroke. The police were only there watch the crimes rather than take action!

    It would seem that the police and politicians $#@!ed up big time before, during and after the event.
    Space to let

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    Quote Originally Posted by The__Proclaimer View Post
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    Sounds like police, fearing a race riot, deliberately hung back. If it was a large group of Cologne football fans acting rowdy there's no doubt in my mind they'd have been steaming in with batons in no time.

    Even if these guys were recent immigrants/refugees lets not forget about the family men and their young kids trudging across Europe in the snow right now looking for somewhere to settle. These young men with their neanderthal views may never integrate but let's not take it out on the families who hopefully never forget the kindness shown to them by their new hosts and grow up to be decent German or UK nationals.
    It's a good point but it's no means clear that the attitude to women among these family men is dramatically different. At the end of the day we're accelerating towards the sharp end of the fatal contradiction in multi culturalism; culture is in very large part synonymous with society. Multi culturalism within one society is fundamentally a contradiction in terms - it basically equates to multiple societies within one society. Sure enough that is what's happening and it's too late to stop it. It's a far bigger threat to the west than your isils or whatever.

    This is why I don't understand the desperation to believe these people aren't refugees. As I said above the alternative is worse, much worse, because it is more evidence that long term residence in the west doesn't cause a convergence of values. Why would it? Ours are leading to society unraveling at a clip - there's fitter in a Darwinian sense.

    I suspect it simply cannot work; there's certainly no historical precedent and no rational reason for believing it. Debate is hopelessly obscured by the new religious mindset that has the west in its grip as much as old ones grip the east. We are making massive, unprecedented changes with unbelievably high stakes based on articles of faith which are manifestly unsupported by evidence or reason. With the zeal of any other fanatic religion, any discussion of these points is ruthlessly suppressed (though that's finally fracturing).

    But then I suppose I've been saying this for 12 years on here, so I apologise for the repitition. It's just so sad to see it all inexorably going down a predictable path.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ps not just the cops hanging back - the media tried to cover it up. The next stage is foreign policy of your country is affected because you can't make decisions displeasing to your new population. Then its domestic policy.

    We have lived this crazy fantasy where some politicians and a lot more PC clergy have simultaneously said there is no indigenous culture while depending on arrivals to adopt our values. Again this is a contradiction in terms. A single generation of leaders brought up in the post 60s university have managed to put the future of western civilisation in doubt; it's remarkable. In the early 80s Mitterrand responded to demands from Saudi to fund mosque building in France, that they could build a 100 French mosques if they built one church in Saudi. That's a left wing leader seeing through this stuff a mere 30 odd years ago. Now you have conservative leaders in Scandinavia saying the future of their countries deservedly belongs to the migrants as the indigenous have no culture.

    A single generation of rule by those brought up under fashionable madnesses and here we are. It's only beginning.

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    This is really unwinding now.

    Cologne, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Düsseldorf, Bielefeld, Switzerland, Austria, Finland, Sweden ...gradually coming to light despite media in attention, hundreds of assault charges now registered with the cops (500 in Cologne, 40% of which sexual assaults), distinctly looking like media coverup in Germany, top cop emptied, far right gangs out seeking revenge (which seems to make the media easily enough)...what a mess.

    The Germans have set up a committee

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    Just watched horrific video footage on Facebook which appears to show a crowd of about 50 drag some poor lassie away somewhere...

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    Hibs are standing on the brink of history...

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    Swedish Cop in charge of policing a pop festival where women were attacked similarly in summer 2014;

    "Sometimes we do not really say how things are because we believe it may play into the hands of the Sweden Democrats," Mr Agren told Dagens Nyheter, referring to Sweden's right-wing anti-immigration party."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35285086

    As with the English wide cover ups starting in Rotherham, this is so remiscent of church scandals; people covering up crimes in service to what they believe is the greater good, in terms of protecting insitutions and ideology. It was a scandal then and it's a scandal now. So, distinctly, is politicised policing which seems to be the norm now.

    Ps the figures for sex crime in Sweden as a whole are absolutely horrifying in these areas and with these dimensions - until now I had believe all the police spin about reporting methods and the usual stuff. Who knows what to believe now. A police chief in Vienna has told women not to go out alone after dark.

    - - - Updated - - -

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    brave new world

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    All this suppression is really $#@!ing scary.


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    It's eventually getting reported that it was predominantly immigrants committing the crimes. Hopefully these beasts actions don't affect the poor families fleeing war, shows the lads really appreciated the round of applause at the train station ha

    Cologne attackers were of migrant origin - minister - BBC News

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    Quote Originally Posted by The__Proclaimer View Post
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    Sounds like police, fearing a race riot, deliberately hung back. If it was a large group of Cologne football fans acting rowdy there's no doubt in my mind they'd have been steaming in with batons in no time.

    Even if these guys were recent immigrants/refugees lets not forget about the family men and their young kids trudging across Europe in the snow right now looking for somewhere to settle. These young men with their neanderthal views may never integrate but let's not take it out on the families who hopefully never forget the kindness shown to them by their new hosts and grow up to be decent German or UK nationals.
    Well said Proccie

    This comment from EGB is both unhelpful and surprising - It's a good point but it's no means clear that the attitude to women among these family men is dramatically different. It's not like him to try to generalise in such a way and before you argue that this is not a generalisation, it's pretty damn close to saying that these young [purportedly] muslim men have little regard for women so it stands to reason that the family men might feel the same way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
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    Well said Proccie

    This comment from EGB is both unhelpful and surprising - It's a good point but it's no means clear that the attitude to women among these family men is dramatically different. It's not like him to try to generalise in such a way and before you argue that this is not a generalisation, it's pretty damn close to saying that these young [purportedly] muslim men have little regard for women so it stands to reason that the family men might feel the same way.

    All of my muslim friends (almost exclusively of pakistani origin - and all beardies ) do, in fact have very low opinions of women. (really low of western women)...but a much higher opinion of their mammies. Ok, thats 10 to 12 blokes dubbles, but its a very high percentage There being a very high percentage of muslims, immigranst, refugees, shias, sunnis in this world who despise our thinking and way of life

    Am no sure egb's comments are unhelpful tbh....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
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    Well said Proccie

    This comment from EGB is both unhelpful and surprising - It's a good point but it's no means clear that the attitude to women among these family men is dramatically different. It's not like him to try to generalise in such a way and before you argue that this is not a generalisation, it's pretty damn close to saying that these young [purportedly] muslim men have little regard for women so it stands to reason that the family men might feel the same way.
    More when I've got time; suffice to say I'm not sure why me being wary of assumptions that are not based on anything is me being guilty of generalising. Maybe there is indeed a pattern of young men behaving like bams and then upon entering marriage adopting a western view of things. In the spirit of getting away from unhelpful assumptions I am sure you will point me to a world bulging with evidence

    It's just a pity the sons of the married blokes seem to inherit their values from somewhere else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emerald green View Post
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    All of my muslim friends (almost exclusively of pakistani origin - and all beardies ) do, in fact have very low opinions of women. (really low of western women)...but a much higher opinion of their mammies. Ok, thats 10 to 12 blokes dubbles, but its a very high percentage There being a very high percentage of muslims, immigranst, refugees, shias, sunnis in this world who despise our thinking and way of life

    Am no sure egb's comments are unhelpful tbh....
    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    More when I've got time; suffice to say I'm not sure why me being wary of assumptions that are not based on anything is me being guilty of generalising. Maybe there is indeed a pattern of young men behaving like bams and then upon entering marriage adopting a western view of things. In the spirit of getting away from unhelpful assumptions I am sure you will point me to a world bulging with evidence

    It's just a pity the sons of the married blokes seem to inherit their values from somewhere else.
    Aye lads. all muslims are the same but it's not a generalisation to say so

    FWIW I only know three muslims [as friends] and each and every one of them has full respect for those around them which goes against your comments above. My personal relationships with muslims wouldn't lead me to believe that they are all the alike in the same way I wouldn't decide that because one corrupt referee helped cost Hibs a cup, all referees are biased.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
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    Aye lads. all muslims are the same but it's not a generalisation to say so
    only you are saying that

    FWIW I only know three muslims [as friends] and each and every one of them has full respect for those around them which goes against your comments above. My personal relationships with muslims wouldn't lead me to believe that they are all the alike in the same way I wouldn't decide that because one corrupt referee helped cost Hibs a cup, all referees are biased.
    you are generalising from your acquaintances.

    There is little commonality between the situations of;

    A) immigrant populations who have arrived in dribs and drabs from (correct me if I'm wrong but on Scotland statistically likely) the Indian subcontinent, and whose experience has been of a small minority within a host culture and

    B) importing a north Aftican population en masse in such numbers that they can form a viable continuing North African culture.

    Even in the UK with different populations volume is key - it means the difference between a viable parallel culture and de facto assimilation (or self imposed insignificance and isolation otherwise). Which is why after 150 years the west of Scotland is different than the east in respect of the delights we see at football - and the differences there were minuscule in the scheme of things, especially in social matters.

    that said, I'm not clear what is the case in Germany which is why I said it wasn't clear. If you want to state what is the case then please provide evidence to support your generalisations

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    Quote Originally Posted by egb_hibs View Post
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    only you are saying that

    you are generalising from your acquaintances.

    There is little commonality between the situations of;

    A) immigrant populations who have arrived in dribs and drabs from (correct me if I'm wrong but on Scotland statistically likely) the Indian subcontinent, and whose experience has been of a small minority within a host culture and

    B) importing a north Aftican population en masse in such numbers that they can form a viable continuing North African culture.

    Even in the UK with different populations volume is key - it means the difference between a viable parallel culture and de facto assimilation (or self imposed insignificance and isolation otherwise). Which is why after 150 years the west of Scotland is different than the east in respect of the delights we see at football - and the differences there were minuscule in the scheme of things, especially in social matters.

    that said, I'm not clear what is the case in Germany which is why I said it wasn't clear. If you want to state what is the case then please provide evidence to support your generalisations
    What!! I generalised by saying I wouldn't generalise; that's a new one on me M

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
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    What!! I generalised by saying I wouldn't generalise; that's a new one on me M

    My personal relationships with muslims wouldn't lead me to believe that they are all alike
    Extrapolating from personal relationships is more generalising than saying there is not a clear basis for assumptions!

    Anyway before this semantic, pedantic exchange goes any further; I don't believe for a moment "they're all the same". But I do suspect that if you bring in enough people from a distinct culture for that culture to viably continue away from its original home turf, then it might well do.

    As above, this is why I fail to see why people are keen for refugees not to be implicated - the alternative is far more worrying for the future as it suggests that distinct cultural viewpoints are indeed persisting rather than yielding to what remains for now the host culture; which of course we have all been assured up til now does not exist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ps I am as against hyperbole as you which is why I challenge some of the materials Davy sometimes presents. But I don't think the opposite is much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
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    This is where I have to go with dubs concern about hype. This maybe true but RT - $#@! them, they're Trotsky / Goebells vision writ large - so it's just as likely to be bollocks.

    There's a persuasive argument these kgb feckers are both working to cause a ride of refugees and then stir resentment against them. The word cynical is inadequate

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