The great Hibs fan myth

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by HibeeN
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Chops has basically summed it up in his post - a good atmosphere can be created without having to sing about people with a disability or bringing other things into it such as skin colour or religion. I love going to Hibs games - I have a season ticket and sit in the corner of the East right next to the away support so hear pretty much everything that goes on there - the good and bad. And some of it is funny, and yes, a good atmosphere is created when the fans are singing back and forth to wind each other up and a tense, hostile atmosphere is built up. But it doesn't need to be done in such ways. I don't want Hibs to become a "cuddly pished cousin" as you put it. I enjoy a bit of adrenaline and getting wound up at the games. Hostility is good, to a certain degree. But as a PERSON, not a Hibs fan, I don't want to be assosciated with mocking a man who has a disability, or sing about the queen being the next one to go. The trouble is that people don't agree on where to draw the line. Do you find racism acceptable at a football game? What about slurs on religion? What if people were singing songs about Benji and Zemmama and the stereotypes of their religion? What about sexuality? Social background? Weight? Hair colour? People view different things as being acceptable and there will always be debate at what should or shouldn't be sung at football matches.

As for the doe a deer thing - re-read my post and you'll see I said "mostly" pro-scotland songs or cheeky wind ups. It does no harm, offends nobody and makes for a pretty good atmosphere when sung non-stop for 10 minutes on the go. So I'm not quite sure what your point is there. Seems like you're just picking apart my post for the sake of it.

Aye people think knocking cripples is ok but i think the same folk would be up in arms if folk started making monkey noises or similar.
Can anyone explain why knocking skin colour is worse than knocking disability ?

Can i just ask Piltonstany , are you happy your wee lassie hearing the Murray stuff ?

[Dub]

Originally Posted by HibeeN
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Chops has basically summed it up in his post - a good atmosphere can be created without having to sing about people with a disability or bringing other things into it such as skin colour or religion. I love going to Hibs games - I have a season ticket and sit in the corner of the East right next to the away support so hear pretty much everything that goes on there - the good and bad. And some of it is funny, and yes, a good atmosphere is created when the fans are singing back and forth to wind each other up and a tense, hostile atmosphere is built up. But it doesn't need to be done in such ways. I don't want Hibs to become a "cuddly pished cousin" as you put it. I enjoy a bit of adrenaline and getting wound up at the games. Hostility is good, to a certain degree. But as a PERSON, not a Hibs fan, I don't want to be assosciated with mocking a man who has a disability, or sing about the queen being the next one to go. The trouble is that people don't agree on where to draw the line. Do you find racism acceptable at a football game? What about slurs on religion? What if people were singing songs about Benji and Zemmama and the stereotypes of their religion? What about sexuality? Social background? Weight? Hair colour? People view different things as being acceptable and there will always be debate at what should or shouldn't be sung at football matches.

As for the doe a deer thing - re-read my post and you'll see I said "mostly" pro-scotland songs or cheeky wind ups. It does no harm, offends nobody and makes for a pretty good atmosphere when sung non-stop for 10 minutes on the go. So I'm not quite sure what your point is there. Seems like you're just picking apart my post for the sake of it.

I read *chops answer but the thing is though we are talking about two sets of football fans [Scotland and Hibs] we are talking about two entirely different situations imo. As a Scotland fn you go along to the 4 games a year or whatever and enjoy singing and having a braw time with all the other Scotland fan and your opponents can be randoms from anywhere in the world.

As a Hibs fan you go to the game to

a) watch Hibs
b) make it as noisy as possible in the singing sections and mostly
c) to try and intimidate the opposition and silence their crowd.

Especially in games against the Bigot Bros and the Gunts although not exclusively. Familiarity breeds contempt, remember that saying, and we hate them as much as they hate us. They sing songs to rile us and Al [wee162] is correct when he says we should be as hostile as we can back at them. Its a war of attrition.

Nobody [presumably] hates the estonians or the faroese or the icelanders etc etc etc but they sure as fukk hate the scottish teams mentioned above if they are Hibbys.

In summary, its comparing apples to oranges [oops
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[chez]

Originally Posted by HibeeN
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Chops has basically summed it up in his post - a good atmosphere can be created without having to sing about people with a disability or bringing other things into it such as skin colour or religion. I love going to Hibs games - I have a season ticket and sit in the corner of the East right next to the away support so hear pretty much everything that goes on there - the good and bad. And some of it is funny, and yes, a good atmosphere is created when the fans are singing back and forth to wind each other up and a tense, hostile atmosphere is built up. But it doesn't need to be done in such ways. I don't want Hibs to become a "cuddly pished cousin" as you put it. I enjoy a bit of adrenaline and getting wound up at the games. Hostility is good, to a certain degree. But as a PERSON, not a Hibs fan, I don't want to be assosciated with mocking a man who has a disability, or sing about the queen being the next one to go. The trouble is that people don't agree on where to draw the line. Do you find racism acceptable at a football game? What about slurs on religion? What if people were singing songs about Benji and Zemmama and the stereotypes of their religion? What about sexuality? Social background? Weight? Hair colour? People view different things as being acceptable and there will always be debate at what should or shouldn't be sung at football matches.

As for the doe a deer thing - re-read my post and you'll see I said "mostly" pro-scotland songs or cheeky wind ups. It does no harm, offends nobody and makes for a pretty good atmosphere when sung non-stop for 10 minutes on the go. So I'm not quite sure what your point is there. Seems like you're just picking apart my post for the sake of it.

I agree, as an individual with your post - the bits in bold is definitely what I think and feel - we can have a great atmosphere without sickening songs about race, disability etc. Lets face it, for those who enjoyed singing the song to David Murray re his disability, may just find themselves disabled themselves and, believe me, will not like such song sung about them. None of us know what's round the corner for us
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[bigmanandy]

Originally Posted by *chops
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The thing is that at Scotland games, it's possible to create a hostile atmosphere, or a tribal atmosphere, and certainly a huge degree of passion, without singing malicious songs. It's pro-Scotland stuff that creates that atmosphere though, not anti-anyone else. I want the same things as you from our support - I just think they can be achieved in a different manner. One that doesn't rely on Mercer songs, or David Murray songs.

Doe a deer is neither pro-Scotland nor a wind up. I assume you know why it's sung. It seems to be along the same lines as whatever Elvis song it is that I'm told is an East Stand "anthem", or You'll Never Walk Alone at Celtic Park.

The Mercer song will never die too many haters against him maybe a new version without the the 'dead' bit in it then maybe people will be a bit more happy
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There was a Hibs version of 'Doe a Deer' going about which was pretty good but as soon as someone starts anything new at Easter Road someone either moans about it or it gets drowned out by our usual Hail Hail....

Maybe we should take You'll never walk alone back as our own song which it used to be or will people moan that its a Celtic song when it was sung at Easter Road before it was at Darkheid!

Some people seem to me to rather have total silence at a game i dont see the point in that as the only way the team play well and as been said by the managers past and present is when the CROWD get behind them!

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Dub
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Nobody [presumably] hates the estonians or the faroese or the icelanders etc etc etc

I hate the Faroese , they smell of fish
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[Dub]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs
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I hate the Faroese , they smell of fish
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You would
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[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Dub
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You would
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Whale shaggin bastards
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[Dub]

Originally Posted by Dub
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You would
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Dont the Icelanders smell of fish as well or are they yer gunt types that go home and spruce themselves up before the game.

***Please, nobody come in with a norwegian/spruce type of joke. Thanks

[PILTONSTANY]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs
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Can i just ask Piltonstany , are you happy your wee lassie hearing the Murray stuff ?

She won't be going to Tim,Hun or Jambo game til she's older mate,at the moment she hears lots of swearing at games but knows they are bad words....

My Dad only ever let me swear when i was young at fitba and i'll do the same when she starts mumbling sweary words too.

[HibeeN]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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Debate's healthy imo. No problem with that at all. What I would say is that I agree that everyone draws the line at a different point (including me and you). So does that mean that what should happen is that those with the most extreme intolerance of what should be sung is where you end up with taking that attitude? I don't really see the point in the debate if you pre-ordain that that's what you want.

No, I think it's up to the SFA/SPL to clearly state what is and is not acceptable to be sung at football grounds in Scotland. It is then up to them and the individual clubs to take responsibility and penalise those involved if such rules are broken. Now seem people will agree with where they draw the line, some people will think they are being to lenient on songs sung, and others will think it's PC gone mad. Some will obey these guidelines and others will sing what they want. But the fact that we (Scottish football fans) are having this debate at all shows that something is being done to get rid of certain attitudes and I think it's a step forward. Everybody feels different 0 there will always be disagreements about what should be sung and that's just football really. A lot has changed so far and I'm sure it will change even more in the future.

Originally Posted by Dub
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I read *chops answer but the thing is though we are talking about two sets of football fans [Scotland and Hibs] we are talking about two entirely different situations imo. As a Scotland fn you go along to the 4 games a year or whatever and enjoy singing and having a braw time with all the other Scotland fan and your opponents can be randoms from anywhere in the world.

That's fair enough and a good point - maybe it is the familiarity that makes atmospheres more hostile. But the fact still is that the atmosphere at the Scotland games can actually be better than domestic matches without the hate and abuse...so are the "unacceptable" songs/chants actually necessary to create a good atmosphere? I'm not saying one way or the other - I'm not too sure myself - but I think it's an interesting point of discussion.

[Matt-1875-C]

ok i know people i have been sayin a lot about 'acceptable' songs and stuff

and ill say that i dont like the wallace mercer song but there have been comments made about how singing about race and sexuality and stuff should be wrong too

now i really dont like racism but there are people out there who dont care and keep doing it anyway... i have never heard any racist chants at any hibs game iv been at from our support

but about the sexuality thing
how many people joined in to the famous 'paul hartley is gay'?
admitted at was funny and i did join in but god if people are saying that singing about dead people and disabled people is wrong too then surely they wouldnt have joined in on the paul hartley song

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[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by PILTONSTANY
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She won't be going to Tim,Hun or Jambo game til she's older mate,at the moment she hears lots of swearing at games but knows they are bad words....

My Dad only ever let me swear when i was young at fitba and i'll do the same when she starts mumbling sweary words too.

I more meant songs taking the piss out of the disabled Mikey

[PILTONSTANY]

Originally Posted by Forzahibs
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I more meant songs taking the piss out of the disabled Mikey

If you want me to be honest about it i'll say it depends on the context of the situation.....

Is a song about a disabled man at a football match worse than laughing at a joke text message about a disabled man (Christopher Reeves,Superman type o thing)?

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by PILTONSTANY
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If you want me to be honest about it i'll say it depends on the context of the situation.....

Is a song about a disabled man at a football match worse than laughing at a joke text message about a disabled man (Christopher Reeves,Superman type o thing)?

I would say do aye