Mixu's missing something in the middle

[top_geezer]

To be fair some comments on here are over the top as far as Mixu's tactics go (Jocky Wilson's thread in particular - though he could be a Yam in disguise) . However, I think it is not unfair to suggest that there is something amiss in his midfield formation. On Saturday I lost count of the number of times the player in posession had no option but to try and play it up to the forwards or pass it back.
I am a bit baffled by Mixu's comment on Radio Scotland saying he felt the second half was ours. Apart from Donaldson's shot their keeper never had a save to make.
I thought we were pish.
I think Mixu will resolve the midfield issue by making summer signings but what can we do meantime? It seems to me we just don't have the players. I don't think Kerr is the answer but to be fair to Kerr Mixu's midfield shape does not suit his game and he is often left with 2 players to chase.
Boozy would probably have made a difference but I've always felt he's a bit lightweight and is injury prone.
Saturday also showed how much work Fletcher does up front, missed him big time.

[wee 162]

Players aren't even looking to play a pass, they are getting the ball and launching it forward. On Saturday that was to one player, and Nish isn't that great in the air.

[Decal Joe]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Players aren't even looking to play a pass, they are getting the ball and launching it forward. On Saturday that was to one player, and Nish isn't that great in the air.

Nish had his poorest game in a Hibs jersey to date, usually his link up play has been good for us but his touch deserted him on Saturday.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Decal Joe

Nish had his poorest game in a Hibs jersey to date, usually his link up play has been good for us but his touch deserted him on Saturday.

He had no-one to link up with on Saturday. if you're going to leather the ball up towards a single striker and expect him to first win it, then hold it up while waiting on midfielders coming towards him, you get what you deserve out of a game which is fuck all.

[top_geezer]

Agree, Nish needs someone to partner him and Fletcher is ideal.
Not surprised about the amount of misplaced passes given the state of the pitch.
Also Canning is not a right back. I would have played Canning and Hogg in the middle with McCann or Gatussie at right back. Jones and Hogg don't seem to work that well together but Hogg and Canniing have looked good together.

[Dub]

Originally Posted by top_geezer

Agree, Nish needs someone to partner him and Fletcher is ideal.
Not surprised about the amount of misplaced passes given the state of the pitch.
Also Canning is not a right back. I would have played Canning and Hogg in the middle with McCann or Gatussie at right back. Jones and Hogg don't seem to work that well together but Hogg and Canniing have looked good together.

As wee162 rightly points out, there is little to be gained by pumping the ball up to a lone striker who then has to control the ball, hold it in and wait for support from a midfield who quite frankly didnt sound like they were charging forward. Having said that, I dont really rate Nish anyway and whilst he has done all right with Fletch alongside him he is useless on his own.

I would agree that we should have perhaps played Gatheussi or McCann at RB but I think Mixu believes that Canning can play that position, he cant - he has proved that already against Der Hun but Mixu stuck him out there again which basically hung him out to dry. Is it just my perception or does he keep trying to move infield. If he does its no surprise and because he is being played out of position I wont dream of slating him for his lapse in concentration leading to the goal.

I take it you advocate dropping Jones then TG

[top_geezer]

Originally Posted by Dub

I take it you advocate dropping Jones then TG

Absolutely.

He looks like a man who wants to leave the club. Rumour I've heard anyway.
Wouldn't say he's not trying. Just doesn't seem as good as he once was, less decisive. Also at set pieces the oppositon always block his run into the box. Sometimes illeagaly and he doesn't seem to make much of a fuss about it.

[ct01]

I think 4-5-1 away from home is the way to go. Stevenson for me would come into the midfield beside Murray and either McCann or Kerr with Rankin and Zemmama playing on either flank. Fletcher would be the man up top if available and at home go to a more orthodox 4-4-2 with Nish joining Fletcher up front and McCann being considered for the bench or right back. I am not manager though but from the stands i can see we do not have the players at the club to play the way Mixu wants them to right now. Let's be honest here apart from Falkirk away Hibs have not given that much an assured performance over the full 90 minutes infact i doubt if they have over a half yet.

I do appreciate though that Mixu has come in and done in some games what needs done to get the points and that come summer he will have an idea of the players he needs to fulfill his vision of how Hibs should play.

[Jocky Wilson]

Originally Posted by top_geezer

To be fair some comments on here are over the top as far as Mixu's tactics go (Jocky Wilson's thread in particular - though he could be a Yam in disguise) . However, I think it is not unfair to suggest that there is something amiss in his midfield formation. On Saturday I lost count of the number of times the player in posession had no option but to try and play it up to the forwards or pass it back.
I am a bit baffled by Mixu's comment on Radio Scotland saying he felt the second half was ours. Apart from Donaldson's shot their keeper never had a save to make.
I thought we were pish.
I think Mixu will resolve the midfield issue by making summer signings but what can we do meantime? It seems to me we just don't have the players. I don't think Kerr is the answer but to be fair to Kerr Mixu's midfield shape does not suit his game and he is often left with 2 players to chase.
Boozy would probably have made a difference but I've always felt he's a bit lightweight and is injury prone.
Saturday also showed how much work Fletcher does up front, missed him big time.

Aye your right....I must be a Yam in diguise. Just because I am a realist makes me a yam? I base my comments on the current manager's all round performance. Yes he has managed to get us back up the table and forge quite a solid team out of what he had to play with but I just don't feel that he has the necessary experience or know-how to suceed...sorry. Yes it looks good to supporter's seeing their manager out on the touchline shouting the odd's but are the players listening to him? Whats he telling them? who know's....But as I said before ill give the current manager until the middle of next season.

[Jocky Wilson]

And by the way.....what we are lacking in the middle is a guy like Bob Malcolm. Yes the guy's a tool but exactly the type of player we need. A bit of strength and dig in the middle....far better than the tip tappy midget midfield we have on show at the moment.

[Gunnerhibby]

Originally Posted by Jocky Wilson

Aye your right....I must be a Yam in diguise. Just because I am a realist makes me a yam? I base my comments on the current manager's all round performance. Yes he has managed to get us back up the table and forge quite a solid team out of what he had to play with but I just don't feel that he has the necessary experience or know-how to suceed...sorry. Yes it looks good to supporter's seeing their manager out on the touchline shouting the odd's but are the players listening to him? Whats he telling them? who know's....But as I said before ill give the current manager until the middle of next season.

going by what you said on the other thread it seems like you havn't even given him until the SPLit this season.


Is there really anything good you have said about Hibs?

[Stew the Hibee]

Originally Posted by Jocky Wilson

And by the way.....what we are lacking in the middle is a guy like Bob Malcolm. Yes the guy's a tool but exactly the type of player we need. A bit of strength and dig in the middle....far better than the tip tappy midget midfield we have on show at the moment.

Our Ian Murray you mean ?

[SlovSam]

Mixu might be missing something in the middle but you hope it isn't between his lugs because the Mixu philosophy of footballl is utterly different to that of 'Tony' and JC.

All the dictates of modern succesful teams rely on strong central defenders, pacy attacking full backs and most of all midfield players who pass and move and move and pass and then move and pass some more in order to create chances and play in at least one very mobile often smallish centre forward.

It's of course totally unrealistic to expect Hibs with their limited resourses to have all these facets of a succesful team but Mixu seems to like his central defenders to be big and strong, his full backs to be big and strong and his attackers to be big and strong.

In midfield rather than passers of the ball, Mixu prefers the tricky individualist type of player backed up by a sitting midfielder (big and strong if possible) as well as a box to box strong runner.

Mixu has a point though because so far his system has worked and he has achieved very decent results but you can't help but think such a philosophy will only take Hibs so far and that other teams and managers will soon be able to counter such a tactical formation.

I wonder what next season will bring but you don't see Mixu hammering home the message of 'pass and move and football on the ground' philosphy that made JC and Tony so succesful.

This isn't a great problem as 2003 - 2007 were exceptional times by modern Hibs standards but you have to hope Mixu has got a bit more in his locker in a tactical sense..

[calcal11]

Yeah I agree we cant hoof the ball up to Nish but dont know how the likes of ICT get away with this stuff. Someone like Barry Nicholson, Robson or Ian Black would be useful as it looks like boozys off the brom

[Gav]

Originally Posted by SlovSam

Mixu might be missing something in the middle but you hope it isn't between his lugs because the Mixu philosophy of footballl is utterly different to that of 'Tony' and JC.

All the dictates of modern succesful teams rely on strong central defenders, pacy attacking full backs and most of all midfield players who pass and move and move and pass and then move and pass some more in order to create chances and play in at least one very mobile often smallish centre forward.

It's of course totally unrealistic to expect Hibs with their limited resourses to have all these facets of a succesful team but Mixu seems to like his central defenders to be big and strong, his full backs to be big and strong and his attackers to be big and strong.

In midfield rather than passers of the ball, Mixu prefers the tricky individualist type of player backed up by a sitting midfielder (big and strong if possible) as well as a box to box strong runner.

Mixu has a point though because so far his system has worked and he has achieved very decent results but you can't help but think such a philosophy will only take Hibs so far and that other teams and managers will soon be able to counter such a tactical formation.

I wonder what next season will bring but you don't see Mixu hammering home the message of 'pass and move and football on the ground' philosphy that made JC and Tony so succesful.

This isn't a great problem as 2003 - 2007 were exceptional times by modern Hibs standards but you have to hope Mixu has got a bit more in his locker in a tactical sense..

Pretty much sums up how I feel about the current squad/tactics as well. I've got a lot of time for Mixu the bloke, but i'm not enjoying the football we're playing under him at the moment tbh. I'm hopeful and realistic in that I know the ship needed steadied and we may change style when players arebrought in over the Summer. At the moment I see low risk, percentage football being the order of the day tho'..that might not be how others see it but i can't say it floats my boat i'm afraid. Obviously our player budget and I think the willingness of other clubs to take players off us to make space in our squad will dictate which approach we follow next season. I'd like to see more of an emphasis on passing again and less on getting the ball forward at the first opportunity.

[GalegoHibs]

Originally Posted by calcal11

Yeah I agree we cant hoof the ball up to Nish but dont know how the likes of ICT get away with this stuff. Someone like Barry Nicholson, Robson or Ian Black would be useful as it looks like boozys off the brom

Don't mean to pick on your post mate, but it highlights a few points... Robson is now at Celtic and won't be interested in a move for away for far less money until he's spent at least a year on the bench. So we can forget about him. Ian Black? I don't understand our fans' obsession with him. He's maybe not a bad player but he's no better than Rankin. As you don't sound like much of a fan of ICT's style of play, I don't know why you want to fill our midfield with their players.

I wouldn't mind seeing either Barry Nicholson or his teammate Severin in our midfield. Basically, what we need is a controlling midfield player who can pick out a pass. A Boozy of times gone by, if you like. I don't really care whether this player is six feet two or five feet two as long as he can play and create.

Murray can add a bit of height to our midfield but I don't really understand the obsession some have with this either. Barça might not be at their best this season but how many small players do they have in their team? I think most of us would admit they're still not a bad side!

[Greenmachine]

Mixu has to get the balance right in our midfield, and i'm afraid he won't be able to do that properly with the current group of players available to him. Therefore I believe that it will be next season before we see the Hibs team playing to the system and pattern of play that the manager really wants.

IMO in a proper balanced midfield you need someone to play just in front of the back four as an outright defensive midfielder, a grafter who can dominate in the middle win the ball and distribute accurately to others, and two attacking midfielders who can get forward and supply the ammunition to the strikers as well as chipping in with goals themselves. I think Mixu will bring in at least two midfielders in the summer.

For the reast of this season I would be looking to play Murray and Chisholm regularly as our anchor midfield players, with Rankin and Zemmama as our main attacking and creative threat. Not ideal, but for me that would be making the most out of hat's available. Players like Shiels, Stevenson, O'Brien etc can be used as back-up for these positions till the end of the season anyway.

The 1991 Skol Cup winning team had two tremendous attacking midfielders in Mickey Weir and Pat McGinlay, but they would be the first to tell you that they wouldn't have been able to get forward as much to score as many goals as they did without the insurance of McLeod and Hamilton grafting and covering behind them. This is what I mean by having the right midfield balance.

I am sure there will be several players leaving in the summer, and that will create space for the manager to bring in/promote players he wants to have in his team. At the moment we have too many players who are either out of their depth in the SPL, or just don't have the motivation and desire required to succeed in the SPL. Let's just give Mixu a chance to build a decent team. He needs time and backing from the board. I hope he gets both..

[top_geezer]

Originally Posted by Jocky Wilson

Aye your right....I must be a Yam in diguise. Just because I am a realist makes me a yam? I base my comments on the current manager's all round performance. Yes he has managed to get us back up the table and forge quite a solid team out of what he had to play with but I just don't feel that he has the necessary experience or know-how to suceed...sorry. Yes it looks good to supporter's seeing their manager out on the touchline shouting the odd's but are the players listening to him? Whats he telling them? who know's....But as I said before ill give the current manager until the middle of next season.

Bait duly bitten (think someone accused you of this on a previous thread...gotcha!)

Originally Posted by Jocky Wilson

And by the way.....what we are lacking in the middle is a guy like Bob Malcolm. Yes the guy's a tool but exactly the type of player we need. A bit of strength and dig in the middle....far better than the tip tappy midget midfield we have on show at the moment.

My point almost exactly, though I'd also question the shape of the midfield and his system. I think it is over the top to say he is not a manager but to be fair you have said give him until end of next season which is fine by me. I think we'll know how good a manager he is by then. Personally I think with DP at his side he'll do alright. We'll never be world beaters but there are encouraging signs enough for me to suggest that Mixu will have what it takes. For me he doesn't just shout at players. I seem to remember Zemama and Shiels looking at the bench in a recent game at Easter Rd (v Aberdeen?) and getting instructions on when to switch positions that confused Aberdeens defence. One example of some of Mixu's tactical nous. I am aware though of his deficiencies in this department. But I think he''ll learn quickly.

He does need to calm down a bit but you can hardly blame him given the poor standard of refereeing in the game. Kenny Clark in particular on Saturday insisting the ball was roled back 2-3 meters when Hibs had free kicks and turning his back on all the players, not booking 2 delibarate hand balls and a tackle that earned a caution that for me could easily have resulted in a Motherwell Player being sent off. I seem to remember Mowbray arguing with 4th official every week for a while so this is not a problem unique to Mixu.

[top_geezer]

Originally Posted by Greenmachine

Mixu has to get the balance right in our midfield, and i'm afraid he won't be able to do that properly with the current group of players available to him. Therefore I believe that it will be next season before we see the Hibs team playing to the system and pattern of play that the manager really wants.

IMO in a proper balanced midfield you need someone to play just in front of the back four as an outright defensive midfielder, a grafter who can dominate in the middle win the ball and distribute accurately to others, and two attacking midfielders who can get forward and supply the ammunition to the strikers as well as chipping in with goals themselves. I think Mixu will bring in at least two midfielders in the summer.

For the reast of this season I would be looking to play Murray and Chisholm regularly as our anchor midfield players, with Rankin and Zemmama as our main attacking and creative threat. Not ideal, but for me that would be making the most out of hat's available. Players like Shiels, Stevenson, O'Brien etc can be used as back-up for these positions till the end of the season anyway.

The 1991 Skol Cup winning team had two tremendous attacking midfielders in Mickey Weir and Pat McGinlay, but they would be the first to tell you that they wouldn't have been able to get forward as much to score as many goals as they did without the insurance of McLeod and Hamilton grafting and covering behind them. This is what I mean by having the right midfield balance.

I am sure there will be several players leaving in the summer, and that will create space for the manager to bring in/promote players he wants to have in his team. At the moment we have too many players who are either out of their depth in the SPL, or just don't have the motivation and desire required to succeed in the SPL. Let's just give Mixu a chance to build a decent team. He needs time and backing from the board. I hope he gets both..

Agree with pretty much all this. Still didn't rate Hamilton though, think he and kerr have alot in common.

[SlovSam]

Originally Posted by Greenmachine