Hibernian Historical Trust

[HibeeJibee]

Hi there folks. A mate of mine at uni is doing her dissertation on something to do with Catholic Men's Organisations in Edinburgh or Leith in the last quarter of the 1800s, and a major part of what she is doing is going to be about Hibs. Does anyone know the contact details (web? phone? e-mail? post?) of the Hibernian Historical Trust, or when they have meetings etc? as I think she is finding it quite hard to find out relevant information (certainly from primary sources) on the clubs early years etc. And anyone recommend any books which would be of relevance on this subject - obviously not footballing history, but origins, community etc.

Much appreciated.

[SmilingLeither]

Alan Lugton is probably one of the best books, talks about the Catholic Men's society. Should maybe get her to try St Marys Star of the Sea church in Leith, and St Patrick's in the cannongate email the priests there. I'm sure someone would be happy to help as they both have researchers who work there.

[1875]

Originally Posted by HibeeJibee
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hi there folks. A mate of mine at uni is doing her dissertation on something to do with Catholic Men's Organisations in Edinburgh or Leith in the last quarter of the 1800s, and a major part of what she is doing is going to be about Hibs. Does anyone know the contact details (web? phone? e-mail? post?) of the Hibernian Historical Trust, or when they have meetings etc? as I think she is finding it quite hard to find out relevant information (certainly from primary sources) on the clubs early years etc. And anyone recommend any books which would be of relevance on this subject - obviously not footballing history, but origins, community etc.

Much appreciated.

You have a pm....

[SlovSam]

Originally Posted by HibeeJibee
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hi there folks. A mate of mine at uni is doing her dissertation on something to do with Catholic Men's Organisations in Edinburgh or Leith in the last quarter of the 1800s, and a major part of what she is doing is going to be about Hibs. Does anyone know the contact details (web? phone? e-mail? post?) of the Hibernian Historical Trust, or when they have meetings etc? as I think she is finding it quite hard to find out relevant information (certainly from primary sources) on the clubs early years etc. And anyone recommend any books which would be of relevance on this subject - obviously not footballing history, but origins, community etc.

Much appreciated.

The first Lugton book is obviously the definitive reference though I think there is some information available in the National Libary of Scotland at George IV bridge.

The excellent HHT are obviously a good source though understandably like most other club affiliated parties they still seem to trot out the 'Sellick stole all our players se we wuz bankrupt' myth that's been around for 100 years.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and they will conveniently forget that Hibs from 1875 to 1889 were exclusively an Irish club who just happenned to be playing in Edinburgh under SFA jurisdiction (and SFA duress) as Hibs weren't particularly welcome at the party.

Get your man to expand on the following for a fascinating and utterly unique piece of history that is just waiting to be correctly rewritten.

''Sellick' did indeed steal all Hibs players but Hibs were a club completely decimated by internal political divisions over the Irish Home rule question and whether the threat of violence was a legitamate course of action
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and even worse some naughty club official had stolen all the clubs money.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


This of course was a huge scandal being as it was an inside job from within a closed shop church run organisation and it meant that amateur players couldn't be given 'expenses and travelling fares' so of course they went to someone who would provide these ahem
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
inducements.

I'm sure there was once a long debate about this on some Irish football forum that a few of us took part in but I can't rememeber where it was though I might have a hard copy if your pal was interested.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Gunnerhibby]

Originally Posted by SlovSam

The HHT are obviously a good source though but understandably like most other interested and affiliated parties they still seem to trot out the 'Sellick stole all our players se we wuz bankrupt' myth that's been around for 100 years.

Do they?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Where?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Originally Posted by SlovSam

and they will conveniently forget that Hibs from 1875 to 1889were exclusively an Irish club who just happenned to be playing in Edinburgh under SFA jurisdiction.

I think you're being a bit unfair on the guys who do the Trust stuff.

[SlovSam]

Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Do they?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Where?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



I think you're being a bit unfair on the guys who do the Trust stuff.

Didn't they put together all the stuff on the official site which if you read the first 25 years used to be a bland though understandable historical cop out
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and you could look at the Gordon Smith or Lawrie Reilly tributes which excellent though they are seem to be missing some vital information regarding both players reasons for their infamous disputes with the club directors.

Other than that, I thought I acknowledged they did a very good job as I edited my post to say the 'excellent HHT' which they are though I'm sure had a debate with one on them on the merits of Rot Weiss Essen who were meant to the crack German Bundesliga champions who had been defeated by the plucky wee Hibs.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


In fact Hibs were the huge world famous team in permanent demand throughout England and Europe
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
whereas the Bundesliga didn't exist and was 8 years from being formed and Rot Weiss Essen were the German Regional champions of Westphalia who had won a play off match.

So history works in both directions and if you get your facts right you can show Hibs in a very positive light.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
but if you are affiliated to any organisation then there will always be some topics you have to understandably steer clear of.

[Gunnerhibby]

Originally Posted by SlovSam
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Didn't they put together all the stuff on the official site which if you read the first 25 years is just a bland though understandable historical cop out
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and you could look at the Gordon Smith or Lawrie Reilly tributes which excellent though they are seem to be missing some vital information regarding both players reasons for their infamous disputes with the club directors.

If you're talking about the page titled "Club Outline" in the "History" drop-down box then I think you may find that this has been put together by members of the official site, or HI depending on which cap they're wearing, none of whom(to my knowledge) are part of the Hibernian Historical Trust.
And the writings are "drawn heavily" from Alan Lugtons trilogy, "The Making Of Hibernian", as it says so on the first page, "Ireland Comes To Edinburgh". It also gives you the author of the piece, who is not a member of HHT.

Originally Posted by SlovSam
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Other than that, I thought I acknowledged they did a very good job as I edited my post to say the 'excellent HHT' which they are though I'm sure had a debate with one on them on the merits of Rot Weiss Essen who were meant to the crack German Bundesliga champions who been defeated by the plucky wee Hibs.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


In fact Hibs were the huge world famous team in permanent demand throughout England and Europe
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
whereas the Bundesliga was 8 years from being formed and Rot Weiss Essen were the German Regional champions of Westphalia who had won a play off match.

So history works in both directions and if you get your facts right you can show Hibs in a very positive light.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
but if you are affiliated to any organisation then there will always be some topics you have to understandably steer clear of.

I may have "jumped the gun" with your acknowledgement
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[SlovSam]

Originally Posted by Gunnerhibby
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

If you're talking about the page titled "Club Outline" in the "History" drop-down box then I think you may find that this has been put together by members of the official site, or HI depending on which cap they're wearing, none of whom(to my knowledge) are part of the Hibernian Historical Trust.


I may have "jumped the gun" with your acknowledgement
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Actually I've just re-read the official club history and it's actually quite good
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(It never used to be
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
) and a very good and fair read which is rather surprising because it was Mr Crowther of HI 'wot wrote it'
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
or so he claims as Hibs history was never his strong point
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
but fair fair's and it's a well balanced read minus some of the juicy bits which is only to be expected.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[TattooedHibee]

Originally Posted by HibeeJibee
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hi there folks. A mate of mine at uni is doing her dissertation on something to do with Catholic Men's Organisations in Edinburgh or Leith in the last quarter of the 1800s, and a major part of what she is doing is going to be about Hibs. Does anyone know the contact details (web? phone? e-mail? post?) of the Hibernian Historical Trust, or when they have meetings etc? as I think she is finding it quite hard to find out relevant information (certainly from primary sources) on the clubs early years etc. And anyone recommend any books which would be of relevance on this subject - obviously not footballing history, but origins, community etc.

Much appreciated.

The CMS (Catholic Mens Society) is based down at Stella Maris SOTS down St.Mary's way in Leith. If she is needing any heavy info on it I would be able to point yerself/yer mate in the right direction HJ.

[HibeeJibee]

Originally Posted by TattooedHibee
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The CMS (Catholic Mens Society) is based down at Stella Maris SOTS down St.Mary's way in Leith. If she is needing any heavy info on it I would be able to point yerself/yer mate in the right direction HJ.

Cheers, I'll be seeing her in a few days again all going well and I'll ask her them. Thanks to other posters and PMs too, sure it'll be very useful for her degree work.