J.C. tactics against yams

[Galloway Hibby]

There are many threads talking about goalkeeping mistake,s what about J.C. tactic,s
on Sat three centre half,s where did that come from big Jonesy and Hogg were
playing well enough together why stick Martis in to upset the apple cart .
Can,t wait for the season to come to an end we were playing some lovely
passing football and yes we won a trophey but we have went on free fall since
the fall out hasnt helped let,s just put it behind us as a trophey wining year and look forward to a fresh new season with hopefully more consistensey

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Galloway Hibby

There are many threads talking about goalkeeping mistake,s what about J.C. tactic,s
on Sat three centre half,s where did that come from big Jonesy and Hogg were
playing well enough together why stick Martis in to upset the apple cart .
Can,t wait for the season to come to an end we were playing some lovely
passing football and yes we won a trophey but we have went on free fall since
the fall out hasnt helped let,s just put it behind us as a trophey wining year and look forward to a fresh new season with hopefully more consistensey

Hogg sold the first goal, McNeil and all three centre halfs sold the second, but obviously it was Martis who was at fault

I was surprised that we didn't go back to Boozy as sweeper and Martis and Hogg at centre half since that's the best we've looked for months with that formation against the huns.

[Smurf]

I missed the game but was shocked to learn that Jones played on the left of a back three..

[Hibee_Lisa]

Originally Posted by Smurf

I missed the game but was shocked to learn that Jones played on the left of a back three..

the defence looked totally lost 2BH should have kept it simple and played a flat back 4 which they looked more comfortable with

[Greenmachine]

It was total madness to play three at the back on Saturday, with three out and out stoppers rather than two central defenders and a sweeper. It worked against Rangers because we had Boozy sweeping up behind as Franck Sauzee used to do when we played this system under McLeish. Martis has been out of the team since the huns game, then he is suddenly brought back to play in an alien system with two other centre-halfs in a back three. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Neither did starting 18 year old Damon Gray up front with a clearly burnt out Fletcher. I couldn't believe it when Gray started the semi-final replay at Hampden on the strength of one first team appearence when he scored. He is then started again in a Derby match at Tynecastle.

In the circumstances with Benji injured, surely it would have made more sense to have played Ivan Sproule and Dean Shiels through the middle therefore giving us a combination of pace and a genuine goal threat. IMO Collins should have changed to this during the semi-final as well.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Hogg sold the first goal, McNeil and all three centre halfs sold the second, but obviously it was Martis who was at fault

I was surprised that we didn't go back to Boozy as sweeper and Martis and Hogg at centre half since that's the best we've looked for months with that formation against the huns.

Me too. Thought we looked great that day.

[Decal Joe]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Hogg sold the first goal, McNeil and all three centre halfs sold the second, but obviously it was Martis who was at fault

Al, I know you're on a crusade to uphold the name of Shelton but would you not say that Hogg and Martis were both culpable for the first goal?

Admittedly, I hadn't even plonked myself down in my seat at that point but I thought that they were both outmuscled and Martis failed to try and block the shot which was a bit of a trundler!

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Decal Joe

Al, I know you're on a crusade to uphold the name of Shelton but would you not say that Hogg and Martis were both culpable for the first goal?

Admittedly, I hadn't even plonked myself down in my seat at that point but I thought that they were both outmuscled and Martis failed to try and block the shot which was a bit of a trundler!

Its a straight ball into the middle of the defence and none of them cleared it. So I personally think the whole of the central defence is at fault for that collectively. However the most obvious mistake for me in that was Hogg getting turned so easily.

The only reason I am defending Martis is because he seems to get a ridicilous amount of blame for anything that goes wrong imo. There have been plenty of mistakes in the centre of our defence from everyone who has played there this season. All I'm looking for is some consistency in the players who are slated.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Greenmachine

It was total madness to play three at the back on Saturday, with three out and out stoppers rather than two central defenders and a sweeper. It worked against Rangers because we had Boozy sweeping up behind as Franck Sauzee used to do when we played this system under McLeish. Martis has been out of the team since the huns game, then he is suddenly brought back to play in an alien system with two other centre-halfs in a back three. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Neither did starting 18 year old Damon Gray up front with a clearly burnt out Fletcher. I couldn't believe it when Gray started the semi-final replay at Hampden on the strength of one first team appearence when he scored. He is then started again in a Derby match at Tynecastle.

In the circumstances with Benji injured, surely it would have made more sense to have played Ivan Sproule and Dean Shiels through the middle therefore giving us a combination of pace and a genuine goal threat. IMO Collins should have changed to this during the semi-final as well.

The selections of JC are inconsistent and at times bizzare...

[Decal Joe]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Its a straight ball into the middle of the defence and none of them cleared it. So I personally think the whole of the central defence is at fault for that collectively. However the most obvious mistake for me in that was Hogg getting turned so easily.

The only reason I am defending Martis is because he seems to get a ridicilous amount of blame for anything that goes wrong imo. There have been plenty of mistakes in the centre of our defence from everyone who has played there this season. All I'm looking for is some consistency in the players who are slated.

fair enough!

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by wee 162

The only reason I am defending Martis is because he seems to get a ridicilous amount of blame for anything that goes wrong imo. There have been plenty of mistakes in the centre of our defence from everyone who has played there this season. All I'm looking for is some consistency in the players who are slated.

For me ythe difference is that there have been good signs with other centre halves too. I can think of about 2 games where Martis has looked ok, the rest of the time its been bombshell time. Jones has been poor of late but has had very stong points during the season. Hogg I think has got better as the season has gone on. Didn't see it on TV yesterday but at the time on Sat I thought Martis should have dealt with it first, once the ball had bounced we were in bother.

[Boogy]

Originally Posted by Gareth

For me ythe difference is that there have been good signs with other centre halves too. I can think of about 2 games where Martis has looked ok, the rest of the time its been bombshell time. Jones has been poor of late but has had very stong points during the season. Hogg I think has got better as the season has gone on. Didn't see it on TV yesterday but at the time on Sat I thought Martis should have dealt with it first, once the ball had bounced we were in bother.

Totally right. Any decent centre half will tell you it is CRIMINAL to let the ball bounce. When did you ever see one of the weightlifters at the back for Hearts let the ball bounce? Don't know how many times I've said it - you don't HAVE to be a good football player to be a good centre half - just do the basic things correctly and it is so effective. This is something we have been seriously lacking over the season.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Boogy

Totally right. Any decent centre half will tell you it is CRIMINAL to let the ball bounce. When did you ever see one of the weightlifters at the back for Hearts let the ball bounce? Don't know how many times I've said it - you don't HAVE to be a good football player to be a good centre half - just do the basic things correctly and it is so effective. This is something we have been seriously lacking over the season.

And again I'll point out that Jones did exactly the same thing against Kilmarnock last week and it was hardly mentioned.

If people want to have a go at players that's fine with me, but I really am not keen on the witch hunts that seem to go on with a lot of players who are slated whilst there are others who can do no wrong. All I'm looking for is some consistency from people who post.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Gareth

For me ythe difference is that there have been good signs with other centre halves too. I can think of about 2 games where Martis has looked ok, the rest of the time its been bombshell time. Jones has been poor of late but has had very stong points during the season. Hogg I think has got better as the season has gone on. Didn't see it on TV yesterday but at the time on Sat I thought Martis should have dealt with it first, once the ball had bounced we were in bother.

IMO since Christmas the best the defence has looked was at Parkhead and at ER v the huns a couple of weeks ago, and Martis was playing in both.

For me he is the only centre half we have who can let us play a high line because he has enough pace to cover through balls. One of the types of goals we have not lost many of this season imo are the ones which were Caldwells specialty which was a simple ball played behind a defence and the offside trap not working. That has been partly down to Martis being always able to cover it, and Jones and Hogg being able to play offside well.

[Dub]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Hogg sold the first goal, McNeil and all three centre halfs sold the second, but obviously it was Martis who was at fault

I was surprised that we didn't go back to Boozy as sweeper and Martis and Hogg at centre half since that's the best we've looked for months with that formation against the huns.

I think Martis was as much to blame for the first as Hogg but I dont know how you can blame anyone but McNeill for the second. Unless he didnt shout for the ball in which case its Hoggs fault but it looks as though eh did so Hogg left it, fair do's thats what the defender should do in thatt circumstances.

I agree with your later post regards having Hogg and Martis with Boozy as sweeper upper, that worked prety well. FWIW I amn't on a Martis witch hunt I like the guy playing for us but he doesnt seem to do it when Jones is around, plays ok if its just him and Hogg so maybe its Jones thats the problem