can a football team have a 'character'?

[egb_hibs]

it seems against all the laws of reason, but i can't help but look at the history of this club and it's cup debacles, and wonder...

if even the famous five team can blow it against clyde, not to mention a steady procession of such calamities across our history. how can this be, with different sets of players, managers and supporters, over the course of time? can it be that a club can maintain some sort of 'character' that makes it prone to repeating history?

i don't buy the gypsy curse thesis elsewhere(!) but wonder whether insitutional continuity can lead to a club sort of cursing itself. i mention above different teams and managers and fans, but of course these changes don't happen all of a sudden. each new generation grows up at the knee of the last, the veteran of a side was once the new boy and so on.

could learned responses be getting passed on, which add to the simple on-paper facts about our record, to cause us a sort of metaphorical performance anxiety, and so many consequent hampden flops???

this has been nagging me since i was driving along the m8 last night? is it hokum prompted by the psychological trauma of another hampden disappointment or could there be something to it?

i'm fairly sure there is, as it definitely works the other way with successful clubs. even pishy rantic sides, rarely underachieve at hampden, versus their standard of the time - ie they might lose to a team that's better in that era, but they rarely blow it vesus inferior sides. and that's cause they expect to win. i think so anyway.

anyway, if there is anything to this, what can be done about it?

[snoots]

After watching last night and remembering (all too vivdily) Colin Campbell being assaulted in the box by Peter McCloy in the last minute in 1979, I reckon it comes down to "luck".

"Luck" as patented by the f*ckers called the SFA.

They've never liked us, we've never liked them, so it's a fair kop.


"Luck" is supposed to "even itself out" in football according to some. If that's the case we'll win the cup ten years running some time soon. I won't be holding my breath though.

[Seven Tattoos]

Why don't we sign Hugh Sproat, formerly of Motherwell and Ayr Utd? Okay, so he's about seventy-twelve, but he cannae be worse than Zibbie or Jobby Brown and he used to waer a green top when playing the huns and a blue one when playing the tims! What a zany guy! He'd add a few dozen to the gate, eh?

[Smurf]

I genuinely think we're an underestimated club from everyone..

S.F.A, Media, Press, other club supporters, our club owner, board, players and i hate to say it a good too many of our supporters.

As a club we're not part of the club of top Scottish Clubs in the aboves eyes. That club belongs to the Old Firm obviously and the north east challengers and Edinburgh establishment proddy club..

Most people and organisations that are successful are because they have the resources but equally the desire and fear of failure stimulates them on to success.

Obviously our resources are limited but our owner, board, management, players and too many supporters make us out to be some football club in poverty. It's nonsense as apart from two other football clubs in Scotland we are a rich club in Scottish Football terms.

Only when we accept that can we face up to our objectives and expectations that are entirely within reason. That will bring the pressure that generates desire and real fear of failure.

Take today's headline from our manager "The players gave everything".

Would any Hun or Celtic manager have said that if we beat them at Hampden last night? I actually think if a Gunt manager said it there would be feckin uproar but us well we kind of know our place..

As an aside i find JC's comments quite revealing. It almost reveals a man weakened by recent events but that's another point..

It's like last nights events being debated on here. Too many are ready with the "FFS we won the CIS Cup a few weeks back stop yer feckin moaning.." IMO the result at Hampden a few weeks back has no significance to last night. Successful people and organisations don't have such an outlook. Yesterday is history. It's today and tomorrow.

I hear some on here saying "Well that's not our way" and they are ultimately right...

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Seven Tattoos
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Why don't we sign Hugh Sproat, formerly of Motherwell and Ayr Utd? Okay, so he's about seventy-twelve, but he cannae be worse than Zibbie or Jobby Brown and he used to waer a green top when playing the huns and a blue one when playing the tims! What a zany guy! He'd add a few dozen to the gate, eh?

oh we've never been short of characters 7t, both on the pitch and off it
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[hibs1986]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs
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it seems against all the laws of reason, but i can't help but look at the history of this club and it's cup debacles, and wonder...

if even the famous five team can blow it against clyde, not to mention a steady procession of such calamities across our history. how can this be, with different sets of players, managers and supporters, over the course of time? can it be that a club can maintain some sort of 'character' that makes it prone to repeating history?

i don't buy the gypsy curse thesis elsewhere(!) but wonder whether insitutional continuity can lead to a club sort of cursing itself. i mention above different teams and managers and fans, but of course these changes don't happen all of a sudden. each new generation grows up at the knee of the last, the veteran of a side was once the new boy and so on.

could learned responses be getting passed on, which add to the simple on-paper facts about our record, to cause us a sort of metaphorical performance anxiety, and so many consequent hampden flops???

this has been nagging me since i was driving along the m8 last night? is it hokum prompted by the psychological trauma of another hampden disappointment or could there be something to it?

i'm fairly sure there is, as it definitely works the other way with successful clubs. even pishy rantic sides, rarely underachieve at hampden, versus their standard of the time - ie they might lose to a team that's better in that era, but they rarely blow it vesus inferior sides. and that's cause they expect to win. i think so anyway.

anyway, if there is anything to this, what can be done about it?

I have wondered about this for a long time. Clubs (here anyway) seem to maintain their status, whether it's big, middling, or wee. Don't know whether it's supporters' expectations, or something else that's at work. It's long puzzled me, though.

[Dub]

Originally Posted by Smurf
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I genuinely think we're an underestimated club from everyone..

S.F.A, Media, Press, other club supporters, our club owner, board, players and i hate to say it a good too many of our supporters.

As a club we're not part of the club of top Scottish Clubs in the aboves eyes. That club belongs to the Old Firm obviously and the north east challengers and Edinburgh establishment proddy club..

Most people and organisations that are successful are because they have the resources but equally the desire and fear of failure stimulates them on to success.

Obviously our resources are limited but our owner, board, management, players and too many supporters make us out to be some football club in poverty. It's nonsense as apart from two other football clubs in Scotland we are a rich club in Scottish Football terms.

Only when we accept that can we face up to our objectives and expectations that are entirely within reason. That will bring the pressure that generates desire and real fear of failure.

Take today's headline from our manager "The players gave everything".

Would any Hun or Celtic manager have said that if we beat them at Hampden last night? I actually think if a Gunt manager said it there would be feckin uproar but us well we kind of know our place..

As an aside i find JC's comments quite revealing. It almost reveals a man weakened by recent events but that's another point..

It's like last nights events being debated on here. Too many are ready with the "FFS we won the CIS Cup a few weeks back stop yer feckin moaning.." IMO the result at Hampden a few weeks back has no significance to last night. Successful people and organisations don't have such an outlook. Yesterday is history. It's today and tomorrow.

I hear some on here saying "Well that's not our way" and they are ultimately right...

I found that puzzling Smurf. I didnt think all the players gave everything. Broony gave everything, some others gave quite a lot and some didnt really seem to be involved. Do you think JC made that comment to avoid another revolt?

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Dub
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I found that puzzling Smurf. I didnt think all the players gave everything. Broony gave everything, some others gave quite a lot and some didnt really seem to be involved. Do you think JC made that comment to avoid another revolt?

Something that's not been really speculated on is how JC would have reacted on Tuesday evening had there not been a wee revolt the other week..
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