A historic pedant

[Brainwrong]

This might be childish and more suited to the Cooshed but on the Hibs Official site the have a wee add for the Photies wi' the Cup thingy where they have the hook line of: "An Historic Photo Opportunity".

It should be: "A Historic Photo Opportunity"

Ach, it makes a change from threads/posts about impoverished fitbaw players and spongeJohnsquarejaw...

[SuffolkHibee]

Not sure you're right Mr Pedant

I'm pretty sure words starting in "h" followed by a vowel are introduced with "an" rather than "a", something to do with not fully accentuating the "h", hence "an hotel", although I have to concede that "an hospital" doesn't seem right.

Any English teachers out there to clear this up?

[thekeeper]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

This might be childish and more suited to the Cooshed but on the Hibs Official site the have a wee add for the Photies wi' the Cup thingy where they have the hook line of: "An Historic Photo Opportunity".

It should be: "A Historic Photo Opportunity"

Ach, it makes a change from threads/posts about impoverished fitbaw players and spongeJohnsquarejaw...

Someone pm'd me to say that at least 3 of the players (including one very experienced in grammar) were very unhappy with this and they had a meeting with Rod Petrie about it on Monday night. The fact is the "n" may be forced to walk. But the "n" doesn't care because it has earned so much money from a previous sentence it never needs to work again

[dazzhfc]

Let's find out exactly who wrote this and start a revolt against him, organise a meeting with Mr Petrie whilst the culprit takes a break in France and voice our complaints, telling Mr Petrie we were more comfortable under the last editor.

Sounds strangely fimiliar

[Kenny]

Originally Posted by thekeeper

Someone pm'd me to say that at least 3 of the players (including one very experienced in grammar) were very unhappy with this and they had a meeting with Rod Petrie about it on Monday night. The fact is the "n" may be forced to walk. But the "n" doesn't care because it has earned so much money from a previous sentence it never needs to work again

Yeah JC says theirs no problem but the Daily record have "sources" close to the "n" and the "n" says JC will never make and english teacher in a 100 years

[dazzhfc]

Originally Posted by thekeeper

Someone pm'd me to say that at least 3 of the players (including one very experienced in grammar) were very unhappy with this and they had a meeting with Rod Petrie about it on Monday night. The fact is the "n" may be forced to walk. But the "n" doesn't care because it has earned so much money from a previous sentence it never needs to work again

Just beat me to it

[hibadelic]

"An historic" is correctamundo. Not sure why this should be but most likely because English folk often say "an 'istoric" or "an 'otel"

[thekeeper]

Originally Posted by Kenny

Yeah JC says theirs no problem but the Daily record have "sources" close to the "n" and the "n" says JC will never make and english teacher in a 100 years

Sources close to the "n"? It must be "a". I always thought it was a humph faced moaner. Heard it's heading for Sunderland in the summer. And now they will be known as the Black Caats

[oo2beahibby]

Seems it's personal preference!

http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w005.html

You probably know the grammar rule that says you use an before vowel sounds (e.g. an accident, an item, an hour) and a otherwise; e.g. a book, a report, a hotel.

Following this rule, we would say "a historic", not "an historic".

Words of three or more syllables that start with h are treated differently by some speakers, though. For example, which of these pairs of sentences sounds correct to you?

It is a historic occasion.
It is an historic occasion.


We can't agree on a hypothesis.
We can't agree on an hypothesis.
A quick bit of Googling reveals that the phrase "a historic" is used on 1.43 million pages (68%), and "an historic" on 675,000 pages (32%).

Which form you use seems to be little more than a personal preference. Both usages are sufficiently common to be considered correct in modern English.

[Briant]

Originally Posted by thekeeper

Sources close to the "n"? It must be "a". I always thought it was a humph faced moaner. Heard it's heading for Sunderland in the summer. And now they will be known as the Black Caats

No no.

The closest source to "n" is "o".

And he's away to Tootenham in the summer

[Northern Ireland Hibby]

I think you're all getting very historical about this.

Let's put it in the past.

[thekeeper]

My friend's dad's uncle knows the wifey who works in Greggs whose auntie is the cleaning lady at the "o" 's house. And it's definitely no him. And wifey who works in Greggs - her best pal's second cousin's husband works with someone's dad who's a football coach somewhere and he heard it from his brother that it's true. Whatever it is. And he read it in the Daily Recrd. Fcuk - the o has gone from there too. Suspicius

[KABULHIBBY]

Originally Posted by Northern Ireland Hibby

I think you're all getting very historical about this.

Let's put it in the past.

Now we must learn from the past or we will be forced to repeat it, and you can gettae if you think I'm sitting through another Moonface/Bertie Auld era at Hibs

[Dub]

Originally Posted by oo2beahibby

Seems it's personal preference!

http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w005.html

It shouldnt be personal preference. AN historic is correct. A historic is quite simply wrong

Mind you, it used to be considered incorrect to say (for instance) oo2beahibby and Me. It would always have been and I but the "and me" usage crept into acceptance once it was used on the news.

[Brainwrong]

http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/anhistoric.html

You should use “an” before a word beginning with an “H” only if the “H” is not pronounced: “an honest effort”; it’s properly “a historic event” though many sophisticated speakers somehow prefer the sound of “an historic,” so that version is not likely to get you into any real trouble.

http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html#errors

So, I'm right although naeb'dy cares anyway. Then again, I'm just using data on the interweb to back me up, doesn't mean it's true.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/anhistoric.html

You should use “an” before a word beginning with an “H” only if the “H” is not pronounced: “an honest effort”; it’s properly “a historic event” though many sophisticated speakers somehow prefer the sound of “an historic,” so that version is not likely to get you into any real trouble.

http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html#errors

So, I'm right although naeb'dy cares anyway. Then again, I'm just using data on the interweb to back me up, doesn't mean it's true.

Seems to be a British thing. I don't think Americans use an infront of words beginning with H.

[Brainwrong]

Originally Posted by Colr

Seems to be a British thing. I don't think Americans use an infront of words beginning with H.

Shit, I thought it was more prevalent in the US. I've not heard it much in Scotland but I've heard a lot of English folk use An before a pronounced H-word.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Brainwrong

Shit, I thought it was more prevalent in the US. I've not heard it much in Scotland but I've heard a lot of English folk use An before a pronounced H-word.

I've certainly seldom seen it in written form in US texts. More prevalent amongst middle class pseuds.

[Greenman]

Originally Posted by thekeeper

Someone pm'd me to say that at least 3 of the players (including one very experienced in grammar) were very unhappy with this and they had a meeting with Rod Petrie about it on Monday night. The fact is the "n" may be forced to walk. But the "n" doesn't care because it has earned so much money from a previous sentence it never needs to work again

The p is silent as in bath

I'm still looking for the person who put the **** in S****horpe

[pennywellhibby]

Just heard n on the radio talking about a revolt by five others wouldnt name them but says as far as hes concerned its vowel play

[willie groves]

Originally Posted by Greenman

The p is silent as in bath

I'm still looking for the person who put the **** in S****horpe

its the same guy that put the turd in custurd

[Dub]

Originally Posted by willie groves

its the same guy that put the turd in custurd

Or the guy who discovered theres only 1 F in Fulham (second best name for a fanzine in the UK IMHO)