"We'll Increase The Budget Gently" - Bollocks.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by part/time supporter
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Okay, so you're saying that they should have gone ahead and signed whoever they had in mind anyway. They would then have been knowingly going over-budget by however much would have been paid in that deal.

I think if you're knowingly going over-budget, you've got to be certain in terms of what you're going to get in terms of reward for doing that. This is either in the form of actual reward (qualifying for Europe, cups) or avoiding potential greater costs, if you're struggling against relegation.

For instance, Beattie on loan from Celtic, as that was mentioned by Chick Young last night. If Hibs were intending to sign Beattie on loan, the only reward would have been the benefit of whatever goals he would have scored, as there would have been no resale value.

It's an argument with merit, but I'm not sure Hibs were in a position where they could justify doing that.

Another possible argument is that the budget is too low relative to Hibs' income, but we won't know that for sure until the next but one annual accounts (ie the set that will be released in autumn 2007).

Mowbray said he was looking for a Garry O'Connor type of forward. The Peter Thomson guy - who apparently has interested Mogga - is available at around 200K. Having cashed in £1.6 Million on O'Connor you would think that that would be a reasonable risk/investment?

Bottom line for me is that our support has more than stood up to be counted with fantastic attendances, season ticket sales, merchandise sales etc but our board has not reciprocated by doing likewise.

The accounts will be interesting and i for one will not be interested in any bullshite post match 'Injuries and suspensions are killing us..', 'We're asking a lot of young inexperienced men..' type of excuses.

With the nucleus of our team and the support it gets there is no justification IMO for anything less than a top 4 finish. Just a pity the board didn't see that we're only a goalkeeper and poacher away from possibly achieving a little bit more.

[rossh]

Peter Thomson isn't available for £200,000. They have already knocked that back. Double that and you might get somewhere. We are clearly snookered by our inability to move surplus players on thus freeing up squad space.
It must be tough to persuade a player to leave to an inferior club or league for less money and players have no obligation to go if they don't want to.
We are all agreed that a new forward would be preferable but i am still optimistic that Killen will come good with a decent run in the team and Benji and Fletch can only get better.
Add in Scott Brown, Boozy, Deano Ivan etc all chipping in then we still have goals in us.

[GloryGlory]

"You can understand why everyone wants more players but we were determined not to compromise and sign players simply for the sake of it."

Do people read that as Mowbray chose not to sign anyone or that he couldnt. Surely that tells you it was his choice. He's been more than happy to talk about lack of funds restricting him before yet he hasnt here. Some folk just cant resist the slightest opportunity to have a rant about the board.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by SlovSam
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It's an easy call for all these players as you would very easily triple/Quadruple your earnings as well as the huge signing on fee and I don't think the market place can ever be denied in the long term
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That's an easy case to make, but don't you think that there is a definete benefit to players actually achieving something before they get their move? They will earn substantially more money from a move as league winners, established internationalists etc etc. My suspicion is that players look at Hibs as a decent job to learn their trade but not a remotely ambitious club where they can actually win things and massively increase their value. That's why all the players who have left recently who we'd rather keep all seem to have been in their early 20s.

[SlovSam]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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That's an easy case to make, but don't you think that there is a definete benefit to players actually achieving something before they get their move? They will earn substantially more money from a move as league winners, established internationalists etc etc.

My suspicion is that players look at Hibs as a decent job to learn their trade but not a remotely ambitious club where they can actually win things and massively increase their value. That's why all the players who have left recently who we'd rather keep all seem to have been in their early 20s.

Being an internationalist does definetly make a difference to your transfer fee, signing on fee and salary but history indicates that to become a recognised internationalist you have to leave Hibs to achieve this eg Kenny Miller.
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Scott Brown if he had come through 'Scotland's Shame's' youth system would have 10 caps by now instead on one and Kevin Thompson would have 5 instead of zero had he been a young Celtic player.

It would be nice to think 21/22 year olds would like to win something at the club that brought them into football but it's not how 21/22 year old (or their mummies and daddies
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)think when you have a £50,000 signing on fee and £6,000 a week put in front of you


I wouldn't be suspicious about young players looking at Hibs as a just 'decent job' as I think you are completely correct and there is absolutely no doubt about it whatsoever sadly.

[Bukta]

Originally Posted by GloryGlory
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Well tell us Smurf, whos fault exactly is it that we have no more signings
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Was there no more money available or did Mogga fail to fill the gaps?

From what I heard & posted Smurf, there were moves afoot to offload some players to free up wages to make signings. It would appear as though the offloads didn't come off, hence the no-signings.

There's a lot of responsibility on this team now to produce the goods.

[mikey f]

I'm sick of "commercial man" Colin McNiel boasting every summer about record season ticket sales and strips etc and promising all the money will go to the manager but as usual it never does. What about sacking him and putting his wages towards a player? What does he actually do to earn his company car? Give him a free! Its obvious under Petrie that no investment from Gary O Connor's money we will never invest in the near future. Sack the board!!

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Bukta
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From what I heard & posted Smurf, there were moves afoot to offload some players to free up wages to make signings. It would appear as though the offloads didn't come off, hence the no-signings.

Exactly and why i believe the "Increase in budget" is bollocks.

[SqHib]

Originally Posted by Greenmachine
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Extremely disappointed and very annoyed.

For Hibs to be facing the season with only three recognised strikers who are by no means regular goalscorers is frankly a disgrace for a club like Hibernian. For months the manager and the board have known that we were short of striking options, and yet next to nothing has been done about it.

Only other thing I can think is that we may see a slight change of formation and play ala Chelsea ( and a lot of WC teams this year )and have 1 out and out striker - Killen withe Benji and or Fletch as backup and then have two supporting wide from say Fletch , Benji , Zemmama , Sproule , Scotty B , Deano , Benji , Glass , even Boozy - with steel in midfield supplied by Thommo , Stewart and even Konde.

problem is if we do look like lining up this way more - which we might do to accomodate Zemmama in a free role somewhere ahead of the midfield - we wont know whether it was planned all along due to losing Deeks and Garry and getting in Zemmama - i.e. a subtle change in formation given that we cannot go for like for like after losing our two top strikers - or whether it was forced on Mogga due to not getting ( or being allowed to get) 1 new CF
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Time will tell with the formation over the next few games - and if it staye straight 4-4-2 then this is all tosh I've just written !!

[Greenmachine]

Originally Posted by SqHib
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Only other thing I can think is that we may see a slight change of formation and play ala Chelsea ( and a lot of WC teams this year )and have 1 out and out striker - Killen withe Benji and or Fletch as backup and then have two supporting wide from say Fletch , Benji , Zemmama , Sproule , Scotty B , Deano , Benji , Glass , even Boozy - with steel in midfield supplied by Thommo , Stewart and even Konde.

problem is if we do look like lining up this way more - which we might do to accomodate Zemmama in a free role somewhere ahead of the midfield - we wont know whether it was planned all along due to losing Deeks and Garry and getting in Zemmama - i.e. a subtle change in formation given that we cannot go for like for like after losing our two top strikers - or whether it was forced on Mogga due to not getting ( or being allowed to get) 1 new CF
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Time will tell with the formation over the next few games - and if it staye straight 4-4-2 then this is all tosh I've just written !!

I think you may be spot on there my friend. However, I still think we should have been able to sign a back-up for Chris Killen. I do like the idea of that formation though. We have to play a system which gets the best out of our top players like Zemmama and Brown.

[Bartok]

With the money saved on wages we had better be able to get another striker and a goalkeeper in when the window opens again. Very surprised and disappointed that Hibs could not fill these two obvious gaps in the squad. A few injuries and suspensions could seriously jeopardise the whole season. I had thought "top four" until now but I have to say I am not sure we can score enough goals to get there now.

[bigmanandy]

We needed to replace the goals of Deeks and O'Conner, but of course it is not easy to do that, and probaly wont be done for a very long time....but i do expect when the transfer window re-opens, for us to sign a goal keeper and a striker who is actually going to score us goals...because during the summer i thought hmm if we sign a striker then we might have a chance for 4th but i cant see us scoring the goals, and having a good keeper to keep the ball out of the net.

[18HIBERNIAN75]

I mentioned the previous week how i think we have raked in £24 milion over 10 years from gate revenue without including TV money, player sale totalling roughly £10+ million and merchandise.
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I have questioned the board and Mark Venus by email stating this and how we should go into games against anyone confident of taking all 3 points and pointing out that if the Old Firm go a goal behind how they hit you with pressure that no team in the SPL can cope with as seen last week against Celtic when they went behind.

The only response i got was from Colin McNeill stating "Audited accounts for 2005/06 will be released in due course".

What has happened to the supporters voice on the board that was set up many years ago?
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I don't understand we have a manager that clearly is a very good manager and with a board that wont back him he will walk this summer and there aint no point greeting about it cause it will happen
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Unless come Jan transfer window the board turn round to Mowbray and say here is £5 million go get the players that will see us achieve Champs League (if we are up there come that time).

I firmly believe that with Mowbray and cash that can be achieved in this league particulary with the squad we have at present.

If the board back him he will stay for another year and see his contract out i have no doubts about that and who knows if the board keep backing him with cash he might stay and we will have 16000+ every week coming through the gates.

I don't know about you guys but come Jan even if the likes of Rearend came here on loan i would accept that only because he is a PROVEN GOALSCORER.

Pressure must be put on the board and questions have to be answered not swerved around like what Colin McNeill done with me.

[Bukta]

Originally Posted by 18HIBERNIAN75
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I mentioned the previous week how i think we have raked in £24 milion over 10 years from gate revenue without including TV money, player sale totalling roughly £10+ million and merchandise.
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I have questioned the board and Mark Venus by email stating this and how we should go into games against anyone confident of taking all 3 points and pointing out that if the Old Firm go a goal behind how they hit you with pressure that no team in the SPL can cope with as seen last week against Celtic when they went behind.

The only response i got was from Colin McNeill stating "Audited accounts for 2005/06 will be released in due course".

What has happened to the supporters voice on the board that was set up many years ago?
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I don't understand we have a manager that clearly is a very good manager and with a board that wont back him he will walk this summer and there aint no point greeting about it cause it will happen
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Unless come Jan transfer window the board turn round to Mowbray and say here is £5 million go get the players that will see us achieve Champs League (if we are up there come that time).

I firmly believe that with Mowbray and cash that can be achieved in this league particulary with the squad we have at present.

If the board back him he will stay for another year and see his contract out i have no doubts about that and who knows if the board keep backing him with cash he might stay and we will have 16000+ every week coming through the gates.

I don't know about you guys but come Jan even if the likes of Rearend came here on loan i would accept that only because he is a PROVEN GOALSCORER.

Pressure must be put on the board and questions have to be answered not swerved around like what Colin McNeill done with me.

Some good points well made, soured for me by the Kickbackish rearranging of the name however.
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[Brizo]

TMs worked wonders the last two seasons with a combination of home grown talent and free transfers.Looks like hes continued to do well in the bargain basement with our 3 new signings.

But I believe that after shopping in the pound shop for 2 years he deserved to be rewarded by being given a bigger transfer budget than the £150,000 obtained for Deeks being used to buy Jones.We deserve to see something more for our all time ST investment than two lower league centre halfs and Zemmana ( regardless of how good they are )

Dont pretend to have a business brain and its probably very simplistic but 10,000 STs at an average £200 = 2 million quid plus the GOC / Deeks money and others off the wage bill plus merchandising = 2 million quid. Total 4 million. Transfer fees spent £150,000. While young McNeill might do a Craig Gordon and there might be a new GOC in the reserves shirley £500,000 could have been released to get a couple of time served players in those positions.

I fully appreciate that with so many STs theres limited walk up income during the season plus the Academy requires funding. But imo with greater income than in any other year if there was any real ambition to consolidate the last two seasons successes then this was the time to actually make some gentle investment in the transfer market.