Managerial Frustrations/Limit To What A Hibs Team Can Achieve?

[Seven Tattoos]

Clearly, it's disappointing to hear that TM is frustrated with how things are currently going but I also think it's understandable that he feels this way compared with the same time last season (when Bawbag Williamson was still recent in the memory). His comments raise a few issues, namely:
- 1) Does he see HFC as merely a stepping stone?
- 2) How good a manager is he?
- 3) How much does the Lithuanian lucre damage our chances of success?
- 4) Has he lost a large section of the Hibs support?
- 5) Who would replace him and could/would they do any better?

Firstly, I said it from day one of his appointment that he'd only taken the Hibs job because, long-term, he would like to be Celtic manager. But for Martin O'Neill's wife's illness and the subsequent appointment of Ginger Gordon he may have got that opportunity sooner rather than later. I think that his comments on the weekend are symptomatic with his disillusionment with Scottish football with the OF giants and (sadly) Vlad's vags dividing the top three spaces up. I think Mogga would probably take any managerial job offered to him by a decent sized Championship club.

How good is he? Undoubtedly, he is a more competent than average manager. He is bright, articulate, empathetic. He encourages his team to play passing football. However, he is far from flawless. His misuse of substitutions has been naive in the extreme and sometimes I feel he is not the man manager or motivational force we need (too often hertz have clearly been up for it more than us). Crucially, he has failed to adequately address the problem of our inferior goalkeepers and lack of a commanding centre-half.

Thirdly (and this, I believe is absolutely fundamental to the comments he made) the fact that Vagima Rowthesubmarine is currently pumping cash into our BCRs is the main reason why he's had enough. You always had the OF whose financial attributes dwarfed everey other team in the league, but, beyond that, you had a chance of third. It now appears that until such time as Vlad either stops putting shekels into hertz or (as I think is more likely) he gets found out for some form of financial irregularities then we'll have to put up with them being top 3 regulars. Playing for fourth place which, as demonstrated by this season's experience, doesn't even get you into Europe clearly does not appeal to a man of his ambition.

What about the supposed love affair between TM and the Hibs support? Well, I personally think that someone with his experience of life was not foolish enough to believe that would last forever. Also, I think that the damage of being the Hibs boss when we contrived to lost 4-0, 4-1 and 4-0 in derbies in the same season is lasting for some people. I hope it doesn't happen, but assuming it does, then the reaction of the Hibs crowd on Saturday should we lose to them again will be very telling.

Should he stay or should he go? I personally believe someone as meticulous as TM is not given to petulant tantrums and that what he said was telling. He feels that he has done as much for Hibernian FC as could reasonably be done in the current economic climate, particularly in the context of the resources of the three clubs that see themselves as 'bigger' than us. I would not be surprised to see TM in charge of a Premiership/Championship club come August.

Where would that leave us? Who would be the obvious candidates to take over from the Teeside surprise choice? Well, I think Yogi Hughes of Falkirk would have to be in the running? I think Craig Brewster is happy at Tannadice and I believe that Mixu needs a bit more time in charge of a wee club to prepare him for the bigger role that the Hibs job is.

Another surprise choice (who would divide the Hibs support)would be John Robertson, currently in charge of Livvie. Now I know he played for hertz for 16 years and scored 28 goals against us but, don't forget, he was a Hibbie as a laddie who caused us misery as a player. Just think, if, as a manager, he caused as much misery to the Jambos as he created joy as a player for them then we'd all be happy!

[Beagle]

Only point I can take issue with is the Robertson angle. You're certainly lighting the blue touch paper with that one.
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Have always rated him as a coach as I saw first hand how he was learning his trade initially at Livvy, however he didn't exactly set the heather on fire when he was at the PBS and got emptied from there. He seems to do the business better at smaller clubs with little talent or cash
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where have I heard that recently?
Besides I think the Hibbiness of his youth has become somewhat diluted.
Think Mogga will stick it out until his contract is up as he has always said he would, if he doesn't then what kind of message does that send out to any prospective employer..............

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Seven Tattoos

Clearly, it's disappointing to hear that TM is frustrated with how things are currently going but I also think it's understandable that he feels this way compared with the same time last season (when Bawbag Williamson was still recent in the memory). His comments raise a few issues, namely:
- 1) Does he see HFC as merely a stepping stone?
- 2) How good a manager is he?
- 3) How much does the Lithuanian lucre damage our chances of success?
- 4) Has he lost a large section of the Hibs support?
- 5) Who would replace him and could/would they do any better?

Firstly, I said it from day one of his appointment that he'd only taken the Hibs job because, long-term, he would like to be Celtic manager. But for Martin O'Neill's wife's illness and the subsequent appointment of Ginger Gordon he may have got that opportunity sooner rather than later. I think that his comments on the weekend are symptomatic with his disillusionment with Scottish football with the OF giants and (sadly) Vlad's vags dividing the top three spaces up. I think Mogga would probably take any managerial job offered to him by a decent sized Championship club.

How good is he? Undoubtedly, he is a more competent than average manager. He is bright, articulate, empathetic. He encourages his team to play passing football. However, he is far from flawless. His misuse of substitutions has been naive in the extreme and sometimes I feel he is not the man manager or motivational force we need (too often hertz have clearly been up for it more than us). Crucially, he has failed to adequately address the problem of our inferior goalkeepers and lack of a commanding centre-half.

Thirdly (and this, I believe is absolutely fundamental to the comments he made) the fact that Vagima Rowthesubmarine is currently pumping cash into our BCRs is the main reason why he's had enough. You always had the OF whose financial attributes dwarfed everey other team in the league, but, beyond that, you had a chance of third. It now appears that until such time as Vlad either stops putting shekels into hertz or (as I think is more likely) he gets found out for some form of financial irregularities then we'll have to put up with them being top 3 regulars. Playing for fourth place which, as demonstrated by this season's experience, doesn't even get you into Europe clearly does not appeal to a man of his ambition.

What about the supposed love affair between TM and the Hibs support? Well, I personally think that someone with his experience of life was not foolish enough to believe that would last forever. Also, I think that the damage of being the Hibs boss when we contrived to lost 4-0, 4-1 and 4-0 in derbies in the same season is lasting for some people. I hope it doesn't happen, but assuming it does, then the reaction of the Hibs crowd on Saturday should we lose to them again will be very telling.

Should he stay or should he go? I personally believe someone as meticulous as TM is not given to petulant tantrums and that what he said was telling. He feels that he has done as much for Hibernian FC as could reasonably be done in the current economic climate, particularly in the context of the resources of the three clubs that see themselves as 'bigger' than us. I would not be surprised to see TM in charge of a Premiership/Championship club come August.

Where would that leave us? Who would be the obvious candidates to take over from the Teeside surprise choice? Well, I think Yogi Hughes of Falkirk would have to be in the running? I think Craig Brewster is happy at Tannadice and I believe that Mixu needs a bit more time in charge of a wee club to prepare him for the bigger role that the Hibs job is.

Another surprise choice (who would divide the Hibs support)would be John Robertson, currently in charge of Livvie. Now I know he played for hertz for 16 years and scored 28 goals against us but, don't forget, he was a Hibbie as a laddie who caused us misery as a player. Just think, if, as a manager, he caused as much misery to the Jambos as he created joy as a player for them then we'd all be happy!

You're right, first decent offer from the championship/premiership or celtic and TM would be off , all that sh##e you hear about people having integrity is nonsense. TM must be raging to have built the best footballing side in the league only to still win nowt and lose his better players.

[Greenmachine]

I was just upset at the sheer negativity of the article. See, I don't go along with this "4th place is the best we can get" attitude. I reckon we would heve been challenging Rangers and Hearts at this stage if we had been more fortunate with injuries. Hibs can achieve better than 4th, and if he truly does not believe that we can, then maybe it would be better if someone else was given the chance

I agree he will be off as soon as a decent sized English club comes in for him, if they do. That'a another thing, he seems to think over highly of himself does our Mr Mowbray. He has yet to win anything with Hibs. That said, he has done a very good job overall, and I honestly hope he stays another season at least, but I have my doubts after that interview.

As for a replacement should the need arise, I said before Mowbray was appointed that I would be happy with Robertson as manager. Controversial opinion I know. I thought he done well with Hearts, at least he tried to turn them into a football team, but he was totally shafted by Vlad. His motivational and organising skills were shown at Inverness and are beginning to be shown, too late of course, at Livingston.

Too much pish spoken about him IMO, he would take the Hibs job in a shot, and I believe would do a good job. Waiting for pelters....

[Forzahibs]

Originally Posted by Greenmachine

I was just upset at the sheer negativity of the article. See, I don't go along with this "4th place is the best we can get" attitude. I reckon we would heve been challenging Rangers and Hearts at this stage if we had been more fortunate with injuries. Hibs can achieve better than 4th, and if he truly does not believe that we can, then maybe it would be better if someone else was given the chance

I agree he will be off as soon as a decent sized English club comes in for him, if they do. That'a another thing, he seems to think over highly of himself does our Mr Mowbray. He has yet to win anything with Hibs. That said, he has done a very good job overall, and I honestly hope he stays another season at least, but I have my doubts after that interview.

As for a replacement should the need arise, I said before Mowbray was appointed that I would be happy with Robertson as manager. Controversial opinion I know. I thought he done well with Hearts, at least he tried to turn them into a football team, but he was totally shafted by Vlad. His motivational and organising skills were shown at Inverness and are beginning to be shown, too late of course, at Livingston.

Too much pish spoken about him IMO, he would take the Hibs job in a shot, and I believe would do a good job. Waiting for pelters....

I'm not so sure about that
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[Bill Oddies Beard]

I don't want robbo as manager, and i don't think he
would ever be accepted by the majority of Hibs fans
either. Imagine if we got pumped by the yams in the
first derby match of his time as manager.
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As for TM, i think he has said what he feels. We will
be playing fourth if hertz keep getting money thrown
at them and we get nothing. However, i'd like to
concentrate more on what he said after the celtic
match about our side 'coming of age' next season
and having a healthy, succesful future at this club.
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[Greenmachine]

Originally Posted by brianmac

I don't want robbo as manager, and i don't think he
would ever be accepted by the majority of Hibs fans
either. Imagine if we got pumped by the yams in the
first derby match of his time as manager.
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As for TM, i think he has said what he feels. We will
be playing fourth if hertz keep getting money thrown
at them and we get nothing. However, i'd like to
concentrate more on what he said after the celtic
match about our side 'coming of age' next season
and having a healthy, succesful future at this club.
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Yes, your probably right, I don't think Robbo would be accepted to start with by the fans as Hibs boss. However, if we started playing well and winning regularly i'm fairly sure he would win over the doubters. With regard to TM, his comments after the Celtic game were much more positive and upbeat. I also think Hibs will be very good next season, provided of course he is able to bring in defensive players of the right quality.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Greenmachine

Yes, your probably right, I don't think Robbo would be accepted to start with by the fans as Hibs boss. However, if we started playing well and winning regularly i'm fairly sure he would win over the doubters. With regard to TM, his comments after the Celtic game were much more positive and upbeat. I also think Hibs will be very good next season, provided of course he is able to bring in defensive players of the right quality.

If we were to lose Mogga in the Summer, and i absolutely hope not, then Robbo would be my choice.

I was againsyt him getting the job when Boaby left but i think it's now an entirely different ball game..

Hopefully we can get at least another season with Mogga, and then Mixu will be more than ready..
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[Pilrig]

If Robbo got of to a good start as Hibs boss, and if his team played the style of football that we like, I don't see much of a problem.
Dougie Cromb lambasted those of us who wanted rid of Miller as 'evil bigots', as if it was primarily Miller's Rangers background that caused the the hostility, it may have been is some fans' case, but mostly it was as a result of the negative tactics Lexo used.
Yeah, ok Robbo did us a fair bit when he played for herz, but he was a professional footballer doing his job for Christ's sake. And we shouldn't forget the vocal support he gave Hands off Hibs during the Mercer bid.

[OxgangsHibby]

I'm gonna stand up for TM here, I think he's just showing the same wee bit of frustration ,that every one of us hibbys has when things aint going right.
Aint he entitled to do that ?
He's seen his team decimated by injuries since christmas, and knows there is'nt a lot of money around, so he's bound to be a bit peeved at the way the 2nd half of the season has gone. But thats all it is frustration, same as u and me and the guy two rows behind you.That my friends, is the reality of being a hibs fan .

So lets all stop the mowbray baiting , get behind the side, have a good finish to the season , and look forward to next year .

THE FUTURES BRIGHT ITS GREEN AND WHITE

[devohibee]

Originally Posted by OxgangsHibby

I'm gonna stand up for TM here, I think he's just showing the same wee bit of frustration ,that every one of us hibbys has when things aint going right.
Aint he entitled to do that ?
He's seen his team decimated by injuries since christmas, and knows there is'nt a lot of money around, so he's bound to be a bit peeved at the way the 2nd half of the season has gone. But thats all it is frustration, same as u and me and the guy two rows behind you.That my friends, is the reality of being a hibs fan .

So lets all stop the mowbray baiting , get behind the side, have a good finish to the season , and look forward to next year .

THE FUTURES BRIGHT ITS GREEN AND WHITE

Totally agree.Im sure tony must think he must have been bad in a previous life the amount of injuries the team has had.But if he does go how about peter grant and mixu as assistant.Or the guy simpson at carlisle who has done an amazing job.Im sure it will be a surprise whoever it would be but if tony stays for two years then mixu come on down.

[keekaboo1875]

Firstly, I'm not sure TM will be leaving as soon as next season. Yep he's frustrated at the financial situation but what he said was he didn't think he'd still be around in three years. That's hardly a surprise, is it.

Secondly, I can't see anything wrong with JR getting the job. He's shown his preffered style of play is far removed from the Route 1, Hammer Thrower kind so favoured by certain other managers (like Craig Levein).

He started of as Hibby, but that didn't stop him doing well at Hearts as a player. Surely, then, there'd be no problem him coming to Hibs.

We like to think of our support as being above the pettiness normally associated with the kind of OF fan that you hear on football phone-ins. Well, this is our chance to demonstrate it.

[devohibee]

I dont think the goings on in gorgie are what really upset tony but the fact that he was able to stay in touch for so long only for injuries to wreck everything.Had we had scotty and boozy fit and deek hadnt got suspended who would say what we could have achieved.That i think is what is hurting tony and his views on the lack of facilities only bear this out as he seems to think this has greatly contributed to the injury situation.Hibs and tony have a lot to look forward to with the likes of scotty,thomson,boozy,murphy,ivan etc signed up on long term deals.( i know we may lose on of them but the money will be well spent im sure)
If,as we are led to believe, we will be losing caldwell,deek,glass,stewart,konte,smith and one of the keepers then tony has real scope to finally get the defence sorted.Get a top class keeper and centre half in using performance incentives and he knows as he has already said that we can challenge at the top half of the table.When you think of the daft points dropped befor ethe injuries struck(falkirk,aberdeen,dundeeutd etc )then we could well have been well up there.Get the defence sorted tony and the rest will follow.You have three months to get it right so lets get off to a flyer next season with hopefully a fully fit squad to start off with.

[tricky]

John Robertson for the Hibs job???? have you lot taken leave of yer senses?

have you forgotten his stig of the dump like demeanour while in charge of the jambos?

am not even gonna start on his Hertz tattoo, the porky wee hobbit.

no thanks.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by tricky

John Robertson for the Hibs job???? have you lot taken leave of yer senses?

have you forgotten his stig of the dump like demeanour while in charge of the jambos?

am not even gonna start on his Hertz tattoo, the porky wee hobbit.

no thanks.

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[Seven Tattoos]

I knew my mooting of John Robertson as a possible successor to Wolfe Tone would not be universally popular but let's not get in too much of an emotional lather. Much as conjecture, the petrol that fuels this beautiful website and eats into my working day, every day, is great fun, I think we need stop for a nanoscond or two and consider the facts first:
- 1) TM voiced his concerns/frustrations about his role
- 2) Steve McLaren (currently manager at TM's beloved Boro) is expected to be appointed manager of Poofland (with apologies to McGlashan off Absolutely, circa 91) today. (No less a commentator than Martin Samuel of The Times has devoted a double page spread to why he should get the job today. You may be interested to know that no mention is made of a possible successor to McLaren at Boro.)

So, TM is still Hibs boss. Maybe for only a short while? But what do we as Hibernian FC junkies want? Do we want a clearly dissatisfied boss to remain? Or should we say thanks for the memories, appreciate the best football seen at ER in three decades (although the Suazee/Latapy team were good to watch as well) and move on?

I think we need to try and reach a consensus as a support. But I personally take the same view with a Hibs manager as I do with a Hibs player, i.e. if your heart is no longer in it then please make like The Moody Blues and 'Go Now'. Hibernian FC has lost talented managers, talented playing personnel before and persevered. No one individual is more important than the social and cultural institution that is Hibs FC.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Seven Tattoos

- 1) Does he see HFC as merely a stepping stone?
- 2) How good a manager is he?

As an aside, I think there is a general if unfortunate truth that from our pov, a good answer to 2) will always go hand in hand with a bad answer to 1)
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[Seven Tattoos]

Excellent point EGB. And as another aside, it always amuses me when I see Lexo sitting on the Liverpool FC bench. When you consider all the managers we've had in my time as a supporter (83-84 -) then managing Hibs has pretty much been as good as it has got for them, i.e. they weren't actually especially dextrous in the art of football management. In fact, most of them would have been better advised by any careers guru to have followed the Benny route and taken up the LRT shilling. But Lexo has actually gone onto better things.

Having said that, he got sacked on my 25th birthday, and that Monday ten years ago I was glad to see the back of him as we'd been humped 3-1 at ER by Jeffries Jizzbos on the Sat.

Getting back to your point; we just have to accept that in the evolutionary food chain of British and European football we're relatively small fry and any talented individuals (be they players or managers) will be lured away by clubs with greater financial resources.

[Brizo]

Originally Posted by tricky

John Robertson for the Hibs job???? have you lot taken leave of yer senses?

have you forgotten his stig of the dump like demeanour while in charge of the jambos?

am not even gonna start on his Hertz tattoo, the porky wee hobbit.

no thanks.

Agree.

Dont think a Robbo Hibs team would play any better than a TM Hibs team and would Robbo the most undisciplined manager in the SPL have had the man management skills and off field credibility to change the lifestyle and attitude of the likes of GOC and Scotty Brown.

Imo Robbo lacks dignity , class and articulateness - 3 attributes TM has in abundance.

The Mad Vlad franchise means that its no longer the OF and then the rest , its the OF plus Hertz and then the rest.Given that the teams with most money finish at the top the reality is that us sheep and killie will in all probability be fighting for 4th spot until Vlad sells out to Cala.

While im as keen as anyone to see some of the GOC money invested in new players the Board could loosen the purse strings , we'd still be paying 3 or 4 times less wages than Hertz and for all that extra outlay might still only end up in a meaningless (in terms of UEFA Cup money) 4th spot.

Id rather be 4th or 5th in the league each year than have short term success / long term extinction that im sures gonna be the end of the whole Mad Vlad project.