Russia has Georgia On Its Mind

[Daddy'O'Hibee]

Just seen breaking news, fleets of tanks pouring into Georgia after incidents in South Ossetia i believe, oh dear. Large russian population there.


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[Jamesie]

The latest pawn in the great game.

[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by Daddy'O'Hibee
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Just seen breaking news, fleets of tanks pouring into Georgia sfter incidents in South Ossetia i believe, oh dear. Large russian population there.


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The undercurrent to this dispute, like so many, is control of the resourse rich regions to the south of Russia in the transcaucasus. (inc Afghanistan btw). Russia is now reasserting it's considerable presence in it's own back yard, after years of allowing the USA/EU to slowly creep towards it borders (Orange revolutions and such like).

I anticipate that Georgia will be crushed here.

[Dub]

Originally Posted by Stirlinghibee
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The undercurrent to this dispute, like so many, is control of the resourse rich regions to the south of Russia in the transcaucasus. (inc Afghanistan btw). Russia is now reasserting it's considerable presence in it's own back yard, after years of allowing the USA/EU to slowly creep towards it borders (Orange revolutions and such like).

I anticipate that Georgia will be crushed here.

Sounds as though it could be escalating, I think you're right Stirling, if Russia has the will to crush them then crushed they will be.


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[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by Dub
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Sounds as though it could be escalating, I think you're right Stirling, if Russia has the will to crush them then crushed they will be.


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True Dub, I think that the Russians may be looking for someone to show their version of "Shock and awe" against, to show that the Bear has woken from hibernation. Shame for the Georgians though, cant see anyone rushing to their aid.
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If it does blow up, I would expect it to be in a fortsnights time, after Russia's big pal China has it's Jamboree.
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And that's maybe the reason Georgia has launched it now.
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[Dub]

Originally Posted by Stirlinghibee
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True Dub, I think that the Russians may be looking for someone to show their version of "Shock and awe" against, to show that the Bear has woken from hibernation. Shame for the Georgians though, cant see anyone rushing to their aid.
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If it does blow up, I would expect it to be in a fortsnights time, after Russia's big pal China has it's Jamboree.
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And that's maybe the reason Georgia has launched it now.
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Russia and China joining forces against some other nation[s] would be hard to beat. I hope it doesnt come to that otherwise were doomed, doomed I tells ya
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[Tibs]

Are Georgia the innocent victims? Don't know much about all this, but didn't this dispute start with Georgia refusing to recognise South Ossetian independence and trying to take over their capital? And previously they had refused letting them unite with North Ossetia and joining Russia. Sounds like Russia are justified in getting involved, no?

[Dub]

Originally Posted by Tibs
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Are Georgia the innocent victims? Don't know much about all this, but didn't this dispute start with Georgia refusing to recognise South Ossetian independence and trying to take over their capital? And previously they had refused letting them unite with North Ossetia and joining Russia. Sounds like Russia are justified in getting involved, no?

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[Tibs]

Originally Posted by Dub
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:peace:

But it seems Georgia were the first to use military force in this latest dispute, by trying to take the South Ossetian capita by force? And Russia are responding - as the citizens of South Ossetia are originally Russian, I think. (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm talking rubbish)

[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by Dub
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Russia and China joining forces reat against some other nation[s] would be hard to beat. I hope it doesnt come to that otherwise were doomed, doomed I tells ya
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Dub, What do you think the real reasons for Iraq and Afghanistan are?

The great game..As Jamsie said.

1940's - 1990's NATO v Warsaw pact ( USA/UK vs Russia/China)

2000's NATO vs SCO (USA/UK vs Russia/China).

The only thing that has changed is the nature of world commerce. The Frontlines between the opposing forces would need a gap to allow the PS3's to be delivered to Amazon..

[Daddy'O'Hibee]

As Jamesie says, part of the great game, Georgia are the latest to apply for NATO membership, i stand to be corrected but i believe the Russians are none to pleased about the placement of strategic missiles in Czech Rep by Nato, put in place to deter a middle east threat [ my erse ] The obvious natural resources in the area and Georgias close proximity to the Russian border have made her feel threatened, hopefully it will not escalate.


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[Dub]

Originally Posted by Stirlinghibee
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Dub, What do you think the real reasons for Iraq and Afghanistan are?

The great game..As Jamsie said.

1940's - 1990's NATO v Warsaw pact ( USA/UK vs Russia/China)

2000's NATO vs SCO (USA/UK vs Russia/China).

The only thing that has changed is the nature of world commerce. The Frontlines between the opposing forces would need a gap to allow the PS3's to be delivered to Amazon..

True true Stirling. I meant in actual joined up team warfare IE Russian and Chinese troops standing side by side against a modern foe. The chess games will go on forever and a day.

[Daddy'O'Hibee]

Previous info on what has indeed pissed off the Bear. It objected sternly when Georgia applied for NATO membership and was against the missile defence wall being place in Poland and the Czech Rep, i suppose it's taking Mr Kennans containment policy to far
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Russia will see it as aggression.


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[sKipper]

Originally Posted by Tibs
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Are Georgia the innocent victims? Don't know much about all this, but didn't this dispute start with Georgia refusing to recognise South Ossetian independence and trying to take over their capital? And previously they had refused letting them unite with North Ossetia and joining Russia. Sounds like Russia are justified in getting involved, no?

No. South Ossetia is part of Georgia.

[bigmanandy]

Originally Posted by sKipper
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No. South Ossetia is part of Georgia.

Yep, have Russia not got enough land of there own without trying to take more.

Been reports off feirce fighting aswell...

[alnewhaven]

Originally Posted by bigmanandy
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Yep, have Russia not got enough land of there own without trying to take more.

Been reports off feirce fighting aswell...

They have, but also had a lot more. Georgia, Ukraine, Byeloruss and a lot more, were all part of the Russian Empire for up to 300/400 years, even before the Communist regime. Post 91 they lost all that territory which must have been a kick in the teeth to them. Theyve never been too comfortable about Chinese ambitions on their Eastern border, so I cant see them being too cozy medium to long term.

They have been upping the ante a lot in the last twelve months, remember the renewal of Russian bombers/recon aircraft probing UK airspace last year? Its them reasserting themselves as a major power.

And while they have a lot of land, a lot revolves around whats under the ground.

[FTJT]

The Georgians are using heavy artillery against their own civilians to clamp down on the popular seperatist movement.

Just because Russia are big and dont have the best track record dealing with small ex-provinces, doesn't mean the Georgians aren't being murderous fascists on this one. (They've got a bit of a track record there, too)

[Tibs]

Originally Posted by sKipper
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No. South Ossetia is part of Georgia.

Yeah I know, thats what this whole dispute is over? The point is that the South Ossetians don't want to be. They tried to join with Russia and Georgia refused. They then voted for independence and Georgia refused. Georgia then send their military to take the South Ossetian capital, which is what Russia are responding to, to protect the Russians that live there.

Georgia have been denying the people of South Ossetia their democratic rights, and been the military aggressors. So why are Russia the bad guys?

[sKipper]

Originally Posted by Tibs
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Yeah I know, thats what this whole dispute is over? The point is that the South Ossetians don't want to be. They tried to join with Russia and Georgia refused. They then voted for independence and Georgia refused. Georgia then send their military to take the South Ossetian capital, which is what Russia are responding to, to protect the Russians that live there.

Georgia have been denying the people of South Ossetia their democratic rights, and been the military aggressors. So why are Russia the bad guys?

Because South Ossetia is Georgian. Simple as.

It would be like if the Scottish Borders had a majority English population and they voted to become part of England. They'd be told quite rightly to stay right where they f@ckin are !
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[Tibs]

Originally Posted by sKipper
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Because South Ossetia is Georgian. Simple as.

It would be like if the Scottish Borders had a majority English population and they voted to become part of England. They'd be told quite rightly to stay right where they f@ckin are !
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What about Tibet, Chechcyna and Kosovo? None of these places should be independent? Some people would say that Scotland is part of Britain, and thats that. If we vote for independence you'd be ok to see it ignored and refused by the UK government?