Unemployed Youth To Do National Service In UK - HibeesBounce.com

**Daddy'O'Hibee** · 19-07-08, 20:27

I'm bored, but maybe it'll happen soon. How many of us would hide if WW-111 was just round the corner. I can imagine numerous conscientious objectors on here, me i'm just to old, to fat and unfit. What about my sons ?

**Bartok** · 19-07-08, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddy'O'Hibee

I'm bored, but maybe it'll happen soon. How many of us would hide if WW-111 was just round the corner. I can imagine numerous conscientious objectors on here, me i'm just to old, to fat and unfit. What about my sons ?

The Tories are proposing this. Iin The Guardian this article states that 'patriotic' NS doesn't necessarily mean military service. Personally I wouldn't let my kids do anything on behalf of the UK.

Cameron unveils national service plan for 16-year-olds | Politics | guardian.co.uk

Colr · 19-07-08, 20:49

I wouldn't want my kid missing out on education or work for this.

**Daddy'O'Hibee** · 19-07-08, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartok

The Tories are proposing this. Iin The Guardian this article states that 'patriotic' NS doesn't necessarily mean military service. Personally I wouldn't let my kids do anything on behalf of the UK.

Cameron unveils national service plan for 16-year-olds | Politics | guardian.co.uk

It's a subject that my father would argue for, i was very much against, this is actually quite scary, with todays image of knife wielding teenagers running amok in the UK, it would attract numerous voters to the Tories. Cameron reckons
" that his ambition was for all of Britain's 650,000 16-year-olds to take part "

**SKII** · 19-07-08, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colr

I wouldn't want my kid missing out on education or work for this.

How would that be the case though?

It says six weeks in the summer holidays?

Colr · 19-07-08, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKII

How would that be the case though?

It says six weeks in the summer holidays?

I can sort that out.

**OwenWright** · 19-07-08, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddy'O'Hibee

It's a subject that my father would argue for, i was very much against, this is actually quite scary, with todays image of knife wielding teenagers running amok in the UK, it would attract numerous voters to the Tories. Cameron reckons
" that his ambition was for all of Britain's 650,000 16-year-olds to take part "

Thank god im 17

Joining the Army does not interest me

**SKII** · 19-07-08, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwenWright

Thank god im 17

Joining the Army does not interest me

But where does it actually say join the army? Have I missed something?

It is saying community work and an outward bounds course amongst other things?

**OwenWright** · 19-07-08, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKII

But where does it actually say join the army? Have I missed something?

It is saying community work and an outward bounds course amongst other things?

Ahh so volunteering and stuff?

I volunteer to help out here. Im sorted!

**SKII** · 19-07-08, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwenWright

Ahh so volunteering and stuff?

I volunteer to help out here. Im sorted!

It seems to be what they are writing about in the article. I can't actually see any reference to the army...unless I have missed something?

**OwenWright** · 19-07-08, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKII

It seems to be what they are writing about in the article. I can't actually see any reference to the army...unless I have missed something?

I only mentioned the Army as Daddy 'O' was talking about me going to Iraq

Never read the article myself

**SKII** · 19-07-08, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwenWright

I only mentioned the Army as Daddy 'O' was talking about me going to Iraq

Dads huh?

**Bartok** · 19-07-08, 21:55

Nothing wrong with the concept of NS, it's aquestion of which nation for me. As long as it is on a voluntary basis I don't see much wrong with the idea, but it would need careful thought. Legally, the authority in power would need to have realistic sanctions available as well as incentives. In the present climate, kids leaving school would need to know what the score is before signing up, and many will find it hard to get used to a tight disciplinary regime.

Reading between the lines, that is exactly what the Tories are trying to address, and I can see a lot of votes in this for them amongst those who think a bit of discipline would do a lot of youngsters a lot of good. However, if the dream is that a new generation of patriotic, competitive, militarily-disciplined youth will emerge then some people will wonder whether the Tories aren't going down a sinister path?

**Forzahibs** · 19-07-08, 22:00

I'd vote for it , let all of these hard men who fear no one and like fighting join up and see how much fun it is then .
If you like fighting why not get paid for it

Colr · 19-07-08, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartok

Nothing wrong with the concept of NS, it's aquestion of which nation for me. As long as it is on a voluntary basis I don't see much wrong with the idea, but it would need careful thought. Legally, the authority in power would need to have realistic sanctions available as well as incentives. In the present climate, kids leaving school would need to know what the score is before signing up, and many will find it hard to get used to a tight disciplinary regime.

Reading between the lines, that is exactly what the Tories are trying to address, and I can see a lot of votes in this for them amongst those who think a bit of discipline would do a lot of youngsters a lot of good. However, if the dream is that a new generation of patriotic, competitive, militarily-disciplined youth will emerge then some people will wonder whether the Tories aren't going down a sinister path?

Most young people are fine, though. Its a bit of a cudgel where a rapier is required.

**Bartok** · 19-07-08, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colr

Most young people are fine, though. Its a bit of a cudgel where a rapier is required.

Not really a cudgel if it is voluntary?

Don't really get your (rapier) thrust Col.

Colr · 19-07-08, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartok

Not really a cudgel if it is voluntary?

Don't really get your (rapier) thrust Col.

Not National Service if its voluntary - what's the point?

**Forzahibs** · 19-07-08, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colr

Not National Service if its voluntary - what's the point?

Quite right

**Bartok** · 20-07-08, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colr

Not National Service if its voluntary - what's the point?

Why isn't it NS if it is voluntary?

Is the aim to force youngsters into thinking a certain way, or is it to offer them the idea that they have a valuable contribution to make to society? Don't get me wrong, I do think it desirable to prepare our youth for a possible future war. But we had better decide if it is really about that or not. I think the Tories are right, but are dressing it up as an acceptable option for liberals.

I insictively dislike the concept of forcing people into something that the government wants them to do, but I do acknowledge that we are unprepared for the possibility, or probability (feck's sake, maybe inevitability if I'm honest) of a forthcoming large-scale conflict between western society and the emerging powers in the Middle East. My liberal instincts shrink in the face of that prospect. I wonder how many feel the same?

I've said it before and it is sad but true, I think at some point there will be a large-scale confrontation. It will not be decided by nuclear weapons as the west lacks the fanaticism to use them early, and worries about innocent victims and collateral damage. Given the lack of obvious strategic targets, nukes are sidelined until the last resort. It will be a long war, and I wonder whether we have the ability to wage it.

We do need to get ourselves at least menntally prepared for the prospect.

HaarlemShuffler · 20-07-08, 00:43

Calm down calm down calm down :liverpdlnsmilie:, now easy on all you WW freaks!!

It may or may not come to what you mention Brtk but it may just as easily in a breath not come to be.

The point is about NS. It's a brutal step for a nation that abolished it quite rightly and got brownie points for doing so. So then you just say 'crime is too high' or 'politics in mid east dodgy in extremis' and get on with implenting NS for all?

I don't think so.

For starters, once it gets to the crunch (and sickeningly enough for those 1 in a mil consh objectors), there won't be any need for manforce. It will be down to technology and large explosions unwanted by any sane human.

Colin, what are the latest thinkings of the loony left on the teaching 'force'? The pinko libs, the idealist hippies etc?

I would bet they veer towards the Scandinavian principles: small classes with genuine help on hand, both to develop discovered talents and think of alternative ways of dealing with those who do not thrive under conventional educational directives.

That is the only way any desire to be involved in life (=society) can be encouraged.

Half expecting my contrib will kill another thread cos I've gone too far.... say it ain't so.

19-07-08, 20:27	#1
Daddy'O'Hibee The Dancin Radge Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Edinburgh Age: 46 Posts: 2,628 Casino cash: £175 vCash: 10000 My Mood: Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Rep Power: 6	Unemployed Youth To Do National Service In UK I'm bored, but maybe it'll happen soon. How many of us would hide if WW-111 was just round the corner. I can imagine numerous conscientious objectors on here, me i'm just to old, to fat and unfit. What about my sons ? __________________

19-07-08, 20:49	#3
Colr The Radge Doon the Road Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Age: 41 Posts: 19,756 Casino cash: £33478 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 36	Re: Unemployed Youth To Do National Service In UK I wouldn't want my kid missing out on education or work for this. __________________ There is a simple answer to every question..........and it's wrong. Einstein

19-07-08, 21:55	#13
Bartok The artist formerly known as Dixie Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: back home Posts: 13,794 Casino cash: £16045 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 10 Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts Rep Power: 25	Re: Unemployed Youth To Do National Service In UK Nothing wrong with the concept of NS, it's aquestion of which nation for me. As long as it is on a voluntary basis I don't see much wrong with the idea, but it would need careful thought. Legally, the authority in power would need to have realistic sanctions available as well as incentives. In the present climate, kids leaving school would need to know what the score is before signing up, and many will find it hard to get used to a tight disciplinary regime. Reading between the lines, that is exactly what the Tories are trying to address, and I can see a lot of votes in this for them amongst those who think a bit of discipline would do a lot of youngsters a lot of good. However, if the dream is that a new generation of patriotic, competitive, militarily-disciplined youth will emerge then some people will wonder whether the Tories aren't going down a sinister path? __________________

19-07-08, 22:00	#14
Forzahibs Haggis n Cheese On Toast Radge Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Glenrothes Age: 47 Posts: 18,393 Casino cash: £23251 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 2 Thanked 82 Times in 58 Posts Rep Power: 42	Re: Unemployed Youth To Do National Service In UK I'd vote for it , let all of these hard men who fear no one and like fighting join up and see how much fun it is then . If you like fighting why not get paid for it

20-07-08, 00:43	#20
HaarlemShuffler Coffee Shop Radge Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Haarlem on the Spaarne, Holland Posts: 1,782 Casino cash: £2134 vCash: 10000 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Rep Power: 9	Re: Unemployed Youth To Do National Service In UK Calm down calm down calm down :liverpdlnsmilie:, now easy on all you WW freaks!! It may or may not come to what you mention Brtk but it may just as easily in a breath not come to be. The point is about NS. It's a brutal step for a nation that abolished it quite rightly and got brownie points for doing so. So then you just say 'crime is too high' or 'politics in mid east dodgy in extremis' and get on with implenting NS for all? I don't think so. For starters, once it gets to the crunch (and sickeningly enough for those 1 in a mil consh objectors), there won't be any need for manforce. It will be down to technology and large explosions unwanted by any sane human. Colin, what are the latest thinkings of the loony left on the teaching 'force'? The pinko libs, the idealist hippies etc? I would bet they veer towards the Scandinavian principles: small classes with genuine help on hand, both to develop discovered talents and think of alternative ways of dealing with those who do not thrive under conventional educational directives. That is the only way any desire to be involved in life (=society) can be encouraged. Half expecting my contrib will kill another thread cos I've gone too far.... say it ain't so. __________________ admit you're shit