Ireland and UK bottom of European quality of life index

[superbam]

Ireland bottom, UK second bottom. Despite residents of both countries earning among the highest incomes in Europe.

The study takes into account incomes and incomes after tax, basic measures of the cost of living such as the price of fuel and food, level of government expenditure on health and education, working hours and holiday entitlements and life expectancy.

I reckon if the study was to take into account other social factors, such as crime and murder rates, levels of alcohol/drug addiction, then the picture would be even more damning.

Britain and Ireland worst quality of life in Europe: study - United Kingdom News

[SKII]

"Britons have an average net income of more than 35,000 pounds"

According to the government stats it is just below 35K GROSS?

[Dinkydoo336]

Originally Posted by superbam

Ireland bottom, UK second bottom. Despite residents of both countries earning among the highest incomes in Europe.

The study takes into account incomes and incomes after tax, basic measures of the cost of living such as the price of fuel and food, level of government expenditure on health and education, working hours and holiday entitlements and life expectancy.

I reckon if the study was to take into account other social factors, such as crime and murder rates, levels of alcohol/drug addiction, then the picture would be even more damning.

Britain and Ireland worst quality of life in Europe: study - United Kingdom News

No surprise ther at all.

I especially agree with the last paragraph. If these figures had been taken into account we would be well adrift of the rest of Europe.

[sKipper]

Originally Posted by SKII

"Britons have an average net income of more than 35,000 pounds"

According to the government stats it is just below 35K GROSS?

I think thats wrong tbh. The official figures are always circa 19k.

Mind you it just needs a relative few to earn multi millions to hike up the average figures.

[superbam]

Originally Posted by sKipper

I think thats wrong tbh. The official figures are always circa 19k.

Mind you it just needs a relative few to earn multi millions to hike up the average figures.

I reckon thats it - 19k is probably the median/mean(?) income in the UK, the average is pushed up by a minority of extremely high earners. Same in Ireland - probably the two countries with the most unequal distribution of wealth in Europe.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by superbam

I reckon thats it - 19k is probably the median/mean(?) income in the UK, the average is pushed up by a minority of extremely high earners. Same in Ireland - probably the two countries with the most unequal distribution of wealth in Europe.

Nope. Gini coefficient;


Sourrce here.

[sKipper]

Pretty table, but whit end is the good end ??

[superbam]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Nope. Gini coefficient;


Sourrce here.

Sorry man, I should have said Western Europe.

[GalegoHibs]

Originally Posted by sKipper

Pretty table, but whit end is the good end ??

Just what I was thinking. Makes about as much sense as supermarket bar codes to me. Can somebody summarise what that table means, in a non-patronising way if possible please. Graphs and economics aren't my strong point.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by sKipper

Pretty table, but whit end is the good end ??

Originally Posted by GalegoHibs

Just what I was thinking. Makes about as much sense as supermarket bar codes to me. Can somebody summarise what that table means, in a non-patronising way if possible please. Graphs and economics aren't my strong point.

Sorry folks. This is the entry for it on Wikipedia.

The lower the number (and that shouldn't be in percentage terms as in the graph above as it's between 0 and 1 and is not measured in percentage terms) the closer there is to equality of income. Pefect equality of income where everyone has identical income is 0, perfect inequality where one person has all the income and no-one else has anything is 1. Obviously no countries at all have either of those situations. According to the Wikipedia entry below, the lowest level of inequality in the world atm is Denmark with .247 and the highest is in Namibia with .707. It's a particularly useful metric for comparing countries with a similar background, that's the reason why I referred to it with regard to the EU and where the UK sits in comparison.

There's another bit on Wikipedia with a list for loads of countries here, including their Gini Coefficient if anyone cares less.

[GalegoHibs]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Sorry folks. This is the entry for it on Wikipedia.

The lower the number (and that shouldn't be in percentage terms as in the graph above as it's between 0 and 1 and is not measured in percentage terms) the closer there is to equality of income. Pefect equality of income where everyone has identical income is 0, perfect inequality where one person has all the income and no-one else has anything is 1. Obviously no countries at all have either of those situations. According to the Wikipedia entry below, the lowest level of inequality in the world atm is Denmark with .247 and the highest is in Namibia with .707. It's a particularly useful metric for comparing countries with a similar background, that's the reason why I referred to it with regard to the EU and where the UK sits in comparison.

There's another bit on Wikipedia with a list for loads of countries here, including their Gini Coefficient if anyone cares less.

Thanks for clearing that up. I have a couple of (British) mates who live in Denmark. I was talking to them recently about life there. Sounds like a very wealthy place generally. Taxes are very high and I also understand that some welfare state benefits, including unemployment benefit, are very generous. I think I'm correct in saying their unemployment rate is the lowest in the EU which seems to knock on the head the theory that everyone would sponge off the state and go on the dole if unemployment benefits were easier to live off.

[superbam]

Originally Posted by GalegoHibs

Thanks for clearing that up. I have a couple of (British) mates who live in Denmark. I was talking to them recently about life there. Sounds like a very wealthy place generally. Taxes are very high and I also understand that some welfare state benefits, including unemployment benefit, are very generous. I think I'm correct in saying their unemployment rate is the lowest in the EU which seems to knock on the head the theory that everyone would sponge off the state and go on the dole if unemployment benefits were easier to live off.

I think it is countries like Denmark that those who favour independence should look to as a role model for an independent Scotland. We should be looking to builld a successfull society, rather than simply a successfull economy. The latter does not necessarily lead to the former - as in Ireland's case, which suffers from all the same problems the UK does.

[Smurf]

Scot Nats aspire for us to be like Ireland..

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Smurf

Scot Nats aspire for us to be like Ireland..

Really? I thought they aspired to be like Scotland.

What they have said is that Irelands economic success (which it has been) is an example of why saying Scotland could not survive economically without England is a heap of shite. Which it is.

What is your aspirations for Scotland exactly Smurf? Continue to be part of a failing Union? Continue to be part of a massively economically developed state which has built in inequality into its very fabric?

If you think, as you seem to be saying, that Scotland shouldn't be independent because Ireland has inequality comparable to the UK, why exactly should anyone want to remain part of the UK if that's their priority? My opinion is that you're simply using this as a straw man to try to get a dig in at nationalists.

I would also add that I've read stuff by you on here talking about using the Irish model of low business taxes etc in Scotland specifically. Or are you just going to ignore that that is part of the Irish economy which has been partly responsible for the high level of inequality...

[superbam]

Originally Posted by Smurf

Scot Nats aspire for us to be like Ireland..

Well some do - some in the SNP see their party very much like the broad-based large Irish parties. But the example of Ireland is often mentioned by nationalists in the same sentence as the likes of Denmark and Norway etc as they are all seen as successfull small european countries, even though their set-ups are quite different - characteristic of the SNP, trying to be all things to all men. I think the scottish electorate would not tolerate the neglect/scaling down of public services that would come with following the irish model, but would most likely also shite it about the tax levels in the likes of Denmark so the SNP being more that anything opportunist would beat a path down the middle.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Really? I thought they aspired to be like Scotland.

First time i've heard that one..

Originally Posted by wee 162

What they have said is that Irelands economic success (which it has been) is an example of why saying Scotland could not survive economically without England is a heap of shite. Which it is.

I agree on your latter point. With the correct economic strategy there's no reason Scotland couldn't be successful economically outwith the Union.

I've never been part of the 'We need the English to survive..' brigade.

However, is Ireland really such a success? Remove all the EU subsidy and what's the true picture?

Originally Posted by wee 162

What is your aspirations for Scotland exactly Smurf? Continue to be part of a failing Union? Continue to be part of a massively economically developed state which has built in inequality into its very fabric?

Is the 3rd/4th largest most successful economy a failing Union?

What inequality? I know it exists but what inequility specifically?

Originally Posted by wee 162

If you think, as you seem to be saying, that Scotland shouldn't be independent because Ireland has inequality comparable to the UK, why exactly should anyone want to remain part of the UK if that's their priority?

I was merely looking to highlight that the reality of Ireland is somewhat different from the perception given by certain Scot Nats.

Originally Posted by wee 162

My opinion is that you're simply using this as a straw man to try to get a dig in at nationalists.

Correct!

Originally Posted by wee 162

I would also add that I've read stuff by you on here talking about using the Irish model of low business taxes etc in Scotland specifically. Or are you just going to ignore that that is part of the Irish economy which has been partly responsible for the high level of inequality...

It highlights perfectly the difficulty of a small nation being successful economically whilst giving greater equality.

Seems to me that you can't have a successful ecomomy and increased equality.

Greater equality only appears to come from government planning and intervention and that looking elsewhere appears to produce failed economies..

[Hampden_Hibby]

If a report said an independent Scotland would have the worst quality of life in Europe, the unionists would be wetting their wee union jack boxers but when it's the other way round.......................

They won't say it so I will - feck the UK, break up the mongrel state because to be perfectly frank, it is pish, finished, rubbish and a laughing stock. Great Britain my arse.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Hampden_Hibby

If a report said an independent Scotland would have the worst quality of life in Europe, the unionists would be wetting their wee union jack boxers but when it's the other way round.......................

They won't say it so I will - feck the UK, break up the mongrel state because to be perfectly frank, it is pish, finished, rubbish and a laughing stock. Great Britain my arse.

Ach away wi ye...

I thought you were off doon the Clyde taking some snaps?

[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by Hampden_Hibby

If a report said an independent Scotland would have the worst quality of life in Europe, the unionists would be wetting their wee union jack boxers but when it's the other way round.......................

They won't say it so I will - feck the UK, break up the mongrel state because to be perfectly frank, it is pish, finished, rubbish and a laughing stock. Great Britain my arse.

Fuckin A.