42 Days

[Colr]

I don't get why the Labour Party keep on with this issue of allowing the police to hold folk for ages without charge.

Why is it such a big deal that they keep coming back to it?

A sensible solution would be to keep the current limit but allow a judge to decide on an extension if a case can be made. I would rather than then let the police decide to hold you for that long.

[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by Colr

I don't get why the Labour Party keep on with this issue of allowing the police to hold folk for ages without charge.

Why is it such a big deal that they keep coming back to it?

A sensible solution would be to keep the current limit but allow a judge to decide on an extension if a case can be made. I would rather than then let the police decide to hold you for that long.

It allows them to be portayed as "Tough on terror".

[FTJT]

Originally Posted by Colr

I don't get why the Labour Party keep on with this issue of allowing the police to hold folk for ages without charge.

Why is it such a big deal that they keep coming back to it?

A sensible solution would be to keep the current limit but allow a judge to decide on an extension if a case can be made. I would rather than then let the police decide to hold you for that long.

i thought they had to apply to a judge every couple of days during the 28 to keep it going or somesuch, and that 28 days was the longest they could hold someone under any circumstances?


I mean, it's insane either way, but I thought there was a fair bit more oversight than you seem to suggest?

edit: BBC NEWS | Politics | Point-by-point: Terror debate.

Mr Clarke stressed that anyone detained beyond the current 14 day maximum would have their case reviewed by a High Court judge every seven days.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by FTJT

i thought they had to apply to a judge every couple of days during the 28 to keep it going or somesuch, and that 28 days was the longest they could hold someone under any circumstances?


I mean, it's insane either way, but I thought there was a fair bit more oversight than you seem to suggest?

edit: BBC NEWS | Politics | Point-by-point: Terror debate.

Ex-Cabinet minister Clare Short argued that the police already have powers to apply for further time to question a suspect if new and significant evidence emerges.

So why the need for a change?

[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by Colr

Ex-Cabinet minister Clare Short argued that the police already have powers to apply for further time to question a suspect if new and significant evidence emerges.

So why the need for a change?

see post 2.

As an aside, the war on Terror might get a little bit hotter soon , if the septics keep this up!

Pakistan slams US after air strike kills 11 soldiers - Yahoo! News UK

[KABULHIBBY]

Originally Posted by Colr

I don't get why the Labour Party keep on with this issue of allowing the police to hold folk for ages without charge.

Why is it such a big deal that they keep coming back to it?

A sensible solution would be to keep the current limit but allow a judge to decide on an extension if a case can be made. I would rather than then let the police decide to hold you for that long.

Apart from being Deep Thoughts answer to life, the universe and everything it may well be that it is the length of time that it would take some clever IT guru to go through somebodys hard drive and unencrypted/recover any potential evidence

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Colr

I don't get why the Labour Party keep on with this issue of allowing the police to hold folk for ages without charge.

Why is it such a big deal that they keep coming back to it?

A sensible solution would be to keep the current limit but allow a judge to decide on an extension if a case can be made. I would rather than then let the police decide to hold you for that long.

it's in their nature; they are social stalinists.

1000s of new laws. the most surveilled country in the free world. laws that defy habeous corpuse and are, according to blather i've read on blogs, being used by the rozzers to nick folk who are pissing them off, and who have nowt to do with terrorism.

i see he's squeezed through by 9 votes incidentally - thanks to some craven deal making according to some labour back bencher on the guardians comment is free.

this will come back to haunt them i predict; they've now lost the pinkos, the peacniks and pop stars, as well as the working class, the catholics, the families and the non-chattering middle class.

whose left? a few billionaires, non-voting welfare lifers and the socially transgressive? they are fucked. i can see them finishing behind the lib dems in the popular vote.

[AndyM]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

it's in their nature; they are social stalinists.

this will come back to haunt them i predict; they've now lost the pinkos, the peacniks and pop stars, as well as the working class, the catholics, the families and the non-chattering middle class.

whose left? a few billionaires, non-voting welfare lifers and the socially transgressive? they are fucked. i can see them finishing behind the lib dems in the popular vote.

Can't disagree with any of that. They will get absolutely fucked at the next General Election. I reckon the Tories will have a 3 figure majority which in itself is not a good thing.

Labour have in addition to the individual groups you mention lost the whole 'middle England' vote completely which for them is the real killer IMHO - I regularly work down there and that is what I hear and experience in talking to people all the time.part of that manifests itself as a rather sinister anti Scottish racism directed at Brown which I find ugly but Cameron has taken the middle ground from them despite his own party being something of a shambles with some very shady characters in the background.

As an ex labour supporter the strange thing is I really don't care, I'm no longer interested.

[Stirlinghibee]

Spot on by egb.

Labour are completely unrecognisable from the party I once knew.

However, thanks to them, we do not need to put up with the Tories again. I only wish that Scottish Labour would smell the coffee and join the Nationalist tide.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Stirlinghibee

Spot on by egb.

Labour are completely unrecognisable from the party I once knew.

However, thanks to them, we do not need to put up with the Tories again. I only wish that Scottish Labour would smell the coffee and join the Nationalist tide.

Not sure that would do your cause any good at all.

[AndyM]

Originally Posted by Stirlinghibee

Spot on by egb.

Labour are completely unrecognisable from the party I once knew.

However, thanks to them, we do not need to put up with the Tories again. I only wish that Scottish Labour would smell the coffee and join the Nationalist tide.

Whilst the Tories remain unforgiven in Scotland and I can't see that changing they are making big headways dahn sarf and are on course to take the next UK election. It will be very interesting to see what the traditional labour heartlands in the West of Scotland (which they would have won if you had put a chimp with a red rosette up) look like after the next election. I'm thinking that the SNP and possibly even the Lib Dems might do rather well.

[vasco de gama]

I guess the fear for a lot of Scots is that the current anti-scottish feeling, combined with the fact that the tories have never needed to care about Scotland, will allow a tory govt to shaft us completely - that is why many now feel that independence must be pushed forward because the way it's looking at the moment we are faced with at least two terms of tory rule over the UK.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by vasco de gama

I guess the fear for a lot of Scots is that the current anti-scottish feeling, combined with the fact that the tories have never needed to care about Scotland, will allow a tory govt to shaft us completely - that is why many now feel that independence must be pushed forward because the way it's looking at the moment we are faced with at least two terms of tory rule over the UK.

There is justified animosity towards Scottish Labour MPs (and a PM) who shaft English NHS and Edication systems but whose wifes and kids as well as voters use another system.

I would doubt that the Tories will shaft Scotland. There must be latent support for a less left of centre approach in Scotland - there used to be. They are also keen to lay the ghost of Thatcher - for north England as well.

[Briant]

Originally Posted by Colr

There is justified animosity towards Scottish Labour MPs (and a PM) who shaft English NHS and Edication systems but whose wifes and kids as well as voters use another system.

I never got this

Are you suggesting that the Scottish MPs hold sway in every vote concerning England?

[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by Briant

I never got this

Are you suggesting that the Scottish MPs hold sway in every vote concerning England?

Scottish Labour MP's. It's a factor of this UK parliaments arithmatic that Labour need their 41 Mp's from here to get legislation through on matters that are devolved to Holyrood.

The famous WEST LOTHIAN QUESTION.

An English Parliament is the only fair answer to this.

[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by AndyM

Whilst the Tories remain unforgiven in Scotland and I can't see that changing they are making big headways dahn sarf and are on course to take the next UK election. It will be very interesting to see what the traditional labour heartlands in the West of Scotland (which they would have won if you had put a chimp with a red rosette up) look like after the next election. I'm thinking that the SNP and possibly even the Lib Dems might do rather well.

That's what I was meaning. Mr Possilpark or Miss Springburn voting for the SNP instead of a memory of what "Red" Labour once was.

It all depends though, if the next UK election is already a foregone conclusion in the polls (like 1997 was for Bliar) .If Labour have a chance at all, I cant really see Mr and Mrs Palmolive deserting them and allowing "the Tories in" , however a 10%+ Tory lead would move them to the SNP in droves.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Briant

I never got this

Are you suggesting that the Scottish MPs hold sway in every vote concerning England?

They have a considerable influence on the vote in some cases tipping balance. They should abstain as the SNP do.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Stirlinghibee

An English Parliament is the only fair answer to this.

A form of it, to be sure.

A seperate English and UK body would not go down well here where there is less enthusiasm for big government.

An English assembly populated by existing English MPs sitting in Westminster would probably be supported with the whole house just for UK issues. SCottish and Welsh UK MPs would obviously have there pay cut to hee haw. I suppose the UK parliament could be an combination of all the MPs from SP WAG and EA.

[Stirlinghibee]

OMFG!

David Davis resigns from Commons over 42-day anti-terror plan - Telegraph

Wow. Gaun yerself Davis....

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Stirlinghibee

OMFG!

David Davis resigns from Commons over 42-day anti-terror plan - Telegraph

Wow. Gaun yerself Davis....

Funny one that. Not sure how the Tories should react.

Gladstone did the same thing.

Conviction politician - rare breed these days.