Irish/ British isles history ( for those with an interest)

[HailHail]

After a few weeks chatting to folk at the AOH and the wild geese society, it seems that.....

Guelph, and subsequently Hanoverian and Windsor rule in Ireland are/were illegal under BOTH English law and that of the Irish parliament after 1691.

Ireland should have remained a seperate Stuart kingdom , the Stuart papers should be housed in Dublin, not Windsor castle.

thoughts?

[Burbank Lilywhite]

Is there some reference for this?

On what grounds were they illegal under English law?

I find this interesting myself, not that it will make much difference in the larger scope of things, but it is interesting to play 'what if'.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Burbank Lilywhite

Is there some reference for this?

On what grounds were they illegal under English law?

I find this interesting myself, not that it will make much difference in the larger scope of things, but it is interesting to play 'what if'.

I ken it's a bit old hat mate, but it all goes back to the non implementation of the treaty of limerick.

some good stuff here J, esp the 'legal argument' in the AOL page.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/RoyalIrishGds

Cusack's History Page


found the page about that other interesting guy too Edward Stack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


and if you get REALLY bored, here's me dead. Video - ITV Catch Up

[Bartok]

Do you have any more on the refusal of the IB to serve under Robespierre, Ian?

[Colr]

Originally Posted by HailHail

After a few weeks chatting to folk at the AOH and the wild geese society, it seems that.....

Guelph, and subsequently Hanoverian and Windsor rule in Ireland are/were illegal under BOTH English law and that of the Irish parliament after 1691.

Ireland should have remained a seperate Stuart kingdom , the Stuart papers should be housed in Dublin, not Windsor castle.

thoughts?

Illegal, huh? I think there may have been some GBH at the Battle of the Boyne but that wasn't prosecuted either!!!

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Bartok

Do you have any more on the refusal of the IB to serve under Robespierre, Ian?

There is something in the links above i think, and even on wiki. The Irish Brigade, or what was left of it,much of it transfers to British service in either 1792 or 1795, as their chances of restoring the Stuarts are gone, and their oath to the Bourbons no longer necessary. They never barrack or serve in britain though, as a condition. Henceforth , 1/3 of the british army was Irish as a result. Many of the officers joined the Austrian army or the Spanish army instead, as they may have been deemed 'elitist' and therefore suitable for 'the chop' under the revolutionary government in France.

I think mr Burbank made a good point recently about Yorktown. Irish against Irish, with a smattering of Scots on both sides, fighting to gain the colonies' freedom from England.

I think the remainder of the Irish Brigade were pissed off at the French promising Ireland a huge army and gold for the united rebellion of 1798, and then only sending a small force to Ireland, to the wrong coast. Sounds familiar eh ?


EDIT: The Colonels of the Irish Regiments were all Irish exiled aristos (or rather, their descendants from 1691), so it made sense that they had to jump ship. Quite ironic that after 100 years of fighting for France against England, the Irish troops under Britain's colours ended up chasing the French out of Spain in the peninsular war and helped stuff them at Waterloo. After the failure of the '59 jacobite attempt, it was all about economics for a lot of soldiers, rather than loyalty to a cause. At least you were guaranteed a meal if you 'took king george's shilling'. The IB largely finding ' new employment' no doubt discouraged a large scale French landing in France, dooming the 1798 rebellion, as though it had many ex irish brigade soldiers, they were mostly armed with edged weapons like pikes, for want of something better, and because the penal laws forbade catholics from owning arms.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Colr

Illegal, huh? I think there may have been some GBH at the Battle of the Boyne but that wasn't prosecuted either!!!

The Boyne? bloody foreigners France vs the Vatican. A matter for the UN

[HailHail]

here's a bit more Col.

For a hundred years this Irish Brigade served the French army. Names like Fontenoy, and the names of many other of the great battle-fields of Europe fill their list of battle-honors. They won glory and the highest honors for themselves and for Ireland, and the undying respect of friend and foe alike. The Brigade was dissolved in 1791 by the revolution. In 1792 the Count de Provence (afterwards Louie XVIII) presented the remnant of the Brigade with a "farewell banner," bearing the device of an Irish Harp embroidered with shamrocks and fluer-de-lis. The gift was accompanied by the following address:--

Gentlemen, we acknowledge the inappreciable services that France has received from the Irish Brigade, in the course of the last 100 years; services that we shall never forget, though under an impossibility on requiting them. Receive this Standard as a pledge of our remembrance, a monument of our admiration, and our respect, and in future, generous Irishmen, this shall be the motto of your spotless flag:--

1692-1792

Semper et ubique Fidelis"

(Always and Everywhere Faithful)

[Bartok]

Thanks Ian, I am looking at the 1790s just now and trying to fit some pieces into place.

Many of the officers joined the Austrian army or the Spanish army instead, as they may have been deemed 'elitist' and therefore suitable for 'the chop' under the revolutionary government in France.

This is what I understood to be the case, but wondered if loyalty to the Bourbons was a factor. Many jumped ship as you put it for all sorts of reasons, and it isn't always easy to disentangle them from each other.

Fascinating stuff though, cheers.

[HailHail]

Originally Posted by Bartok

Thanks Ian, I am looking at the 1790s just now and trying to fit some pieces into place.

This is what I understood to be the case, but wondered if loyalty to the Bourbons was a factor. Many jumped ship as you put it for all sorts of reasons, and it isn't always easy to disentangle them from each other.

Fascinating stuff though, cheers.

Nae sweat man.It wasn't a one off switch to brit service, it depended on the location of IB units. It was done bit bit by bit. If it's any help, there was a (piss poor) Royalist French army in Britain for a time after the revolution that 'we' equipped and sent back to France to restore ' le roix', but they got squished easily. They might have had some Irish lads too, though the french royalist exiles were a bit of a rabble, unlike the IB. There's even an episode of 'hornblower' abut the episode, all hornblowers being based on real missions. (it's called 'frogs and lobsters' on account of the british battalion that landed with the royalists, it's called ' the wrong war' in your part of the world. Quite brilliant for a TV drama. Almost source-worthy.)


here's the mission.kinda. François de Charette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And
During the Seven Years War, Quiberon was the site of the Battle of Quiberon Bay between the Franco-Jacobite and British fleets in 1759.
In the French Revolution, in July 1795 Quiberon was used by French Royalist exiles, with assistance from the British, as the base for a failed invasion of Brittany (traditionally a royalist area). The invasion was defeated by the Revolutionaries under general Lazare Hoche.

what exactly are you looking at the now man? IB? revolutionary wars?

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Bartok

Do you have any more on the refusal of the IB to serve under Robespierre, Ian?

Bartok?!!!

Home for good?

Sorry for the Hijack.