FAO Dixie Chicken

[Colr]

You may not know this as you teach big bairns but what are the principal differences between the approaches to American and British primary education?

[Bartok]

Originally Posted by Colr

You may not know this as you teach big bairns but what are the principal differences between the approaches to American and British primary education?

As you rightly surmise I am no expert on this as I have only my impressions of the US system as I discern it through the knowledge and skills of students when they come to high school.

In the first instance I should point out that they operate a three-stage school system here. Elementary school equates with our primary in ages and stages, then they attend middle school before going on to high school for the last 4 years.

One thing I can absolutely assure you of is that educational standards and expectations, especially in academic achievement, are quite a bit behind those in Scotland. There is much more of an emphasis on pastoral care and the social and psychological development of kids. Sports are given far more prominence. In (private) religious elementary schools, which are very popular in Georgia, the religious element is obviously given a lot of emphasis.

I can only tell you that when the kids arrive at high school at age 14 they have lots of confidence and nothing to back it up with. When shown a map of the world many of them cannot tell which is land and which is sea. In fact many of them hold the thing upside down. They also cannot tell you which century Shakespeare or Dickens or Twain or Joyce lived in, nor can they name any work by any of those guys. They cannot say which country was ruled by Emperor Hirohito or Joseph Stalin, nor can most name five European countries. I know these things because I put together their entry-level pre-test this year.

[Colr]

Cheers.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Landells

FOA Dixie Chicken

There's ay wan.

[brianmac]

Originally Posted by Colr

You may not know this as you teach big bairns but what are the principal differences between the approaches to American and British primary education?

You thinking of moving there, Col?


DC, do they make up any ground (education wise) when they reach High School?

[GforGallo]

colr iv just done a short study (roughly 15 pages) on the differences between scottish english, us and german school systems, from kindergarden up to college/uni, it was done with some americans as well so the information should be pretty much right on. it focuses on both private and public as well. its not particularly well written or anything, were only students after all but if iv got it ill try send you it if you wish?

aghh dont have the finished version on my laptop, i can probably have it in about 3-4 days if your interested?

[Colr]

Originally Posted by GforGallo

colr iv just done a short study (roughly 15 pages) on the differences between scottish english, us and german school systems, from kindergarden up to college/uni, it was done with some americans as well so the information should be pretty much right on. it focuses on both private and public as well. its not particularly well written or anything, were only students after all but if iv got it ill try send you it if you wish?

aghh dont have the finished version on my laptop, i can probably have it in about 3-4 days if your interested?

That would be interesting. Ta!

[Bartok]

Originally Posted by brianmac

You thinking of moving there, Col?


DC, do they make up any ground (education wise) when they reach High School?

Not if I can help it. I make it my business to humiliate them by exposing their pathetic weaknesses and exalting the benefits of a Scottish education. They often graduate in tears.

[brianmac]

Originally Posted by Dixie Chicken

Not if I can help it. I make it my business to humiliate them by exposing their pathetic weaknesses and exalting the benefits of a Scottish education. They often graduate in tears.

[Razormaid]

How sweet of you, Dixie.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by brianmac

You thinking of moving there, Col?

I'm looking at a couple of opportunities to work abroad which may or may not come my way. Education of my bairn is looming and the choice is between British and American schools abroad (and international school, I suppose).

British sounds the best option.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Dixie Chicken

When shown a map of the world many of them cannot tell which is land and which is sea. In fact many of them hold the thing upside down.

which way up is the right way likes?

[snoots]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

which way up is the right way likes?

The icy bit is on top.

[hibadelic]

Originally Posted by snoots

The icy bit is on top.

Which one and why?

[SKII]

Originally Posted by snoots

The icy bit is on top.

That's a cone, no a globe

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Dixie Chicken

As you rightly surmise I am no expert on this as I have only my impressions of the US system as I discern it through the knowledge and skills of students when they come to high school.

In the first instance I should point out that they operate a three-stage school system here. Elementary school equates with our primary in ages and stages, then they attend middle school before going on to high school for the last 4 years.

One thing I can absolutely assure you of is that educational standards and expectations, especially in academic achievement, are quite a bit behind those in Scotland. There is much more of an emphasis on pastoral care and the social and psychological development of kids. Sports are given far more prominence. In (private) religious elementary schools, which are very popular in Georgia, the religious element is obviously given a lot of emphasis.

I can only tell you that when the kids arrive at high school at age 14 they have lots of confidence and nothing to back it up with. When shown a map of the world many of them cannot tell which is land and which is sea. In fact many of them hold the thing upside down. They also cannot tell you which century Shakespeare or Dickens or Twain or Joyce lived in, nor can they name any work by any of those guys. They cannot say which country was ruled by Emperor Hirohito or Joseph Stalin, nor can most name five European countries. I know these things because I put together their entry-level pre-test this year.

A colleague of mine asked me to "critique" some essays he was writing for his masters degree. After trying to get my head around the fact that someone studying for a masters degree (albeit one in Sociology) used "critique" as a verb, I got down to reading them. I couldn't believe that what I was looking at could possibly be good examples of the type of written work expected of (final year) graduate students in America. Reading your post explains a lot Colin.......

Where do I sign up for "grad school"?

[Razormaid]

Originally Posted by Ali

A colleague of mine asked me to "critique" some essays he was writing for his masters degree. After trying to get my head around the fact that someone studying for a masters degree (albeit one in Sociology) used "critique" as a verb, I got down to reading them. I couldn't believe that what I was looking at could possibly be good examples of the type of written work expected of (final year) graduate students in America. Reading your post explains a lot Colin.......

Where do I sign up for "grad school"?

Oi, you should've asked me the other night. I've a master's degree. But it doesn't count as I'm American.

[SG7nil]

Originally Posted by Dixie Chicken

As you rightly surmise I am no expert on this as I have only my impressions of the US system as I discern it through the knowledge and skills of students when they come to high school.

In the first instance I should point out that they operate a three-stage school system here. Elementary school equates with our primary in ages and stages, then they attend middle school before going on to high school for the last 4 years.

One thing I can absolutely assure you of is that educational standards and expectations, especially in academic achievement, are quite a bit behind those in Scotland. There is much more of an emphasis on pastoral care and the social and psychological development of kids. Sports are given far more prominence. In (private) religious elementary schools, which are very popular in Georgia, the religious element is obviously given a lot of emphasis.

I can only tell you that when the kids arrive at high school at age 14 they have lots of confidence and nothing to back it up with. When shown a map of the world many of them cannot tell which is land and which is sea. In fact many of them hold the thing upside down. They also cannot tell you which century Shakespeare or Dickens or Twain or Joyce lived in, nor can they name any work by any of those guys. They cannot say which country was ruled by Emperor Hirohito or Joseph Stalin, nor can most name five European countries. I know these things because I put together their entry-level pre-test this year.

I'm a reasonably well educated guy and can answer most of the questions you set there with little difficulty, however, hand on heart, how many central American countries could I name (probably over 5, however I'd have to think about it).. and to be fair, there has probably been as much newsworthy stuff going on in Central America during my lifetime as anywhere else..so it should be easy, but it isn't, and I admit that I've probably not got a clue who is in charge in any of them.. so what chance would a thirteen year old in Europe have (unless they're the type who reads broadsheet newspapers, and watched the world news)?

OK, possibly an extreme example, however Europeans in general and British in particular should think twice before being all "holier than thou" about our world knowledge. We tend to know this stuff because it's relevant to where we live and how history played out to get us here.. it's not particularly relevant to young American children so why should we expect them to know it (or to care)?

[Bartok]

Originally Posted by SG7nil

I'm a reasonably well educated guy and can answer most of the questions you set there with little difficulty, however, hand on heart, how many central American countries could I name (probably over 5, however I'd have to think about it).. and to be fair, there has probably been as much newsworthy stuff going on in Central America during my lifetime as anywhere else..so it should be easy, but it isn't, and I admit that I've probably not got a clue who is in charge in any of them.. so what chance would a thirteen year old in Europe have (unless they're the type who reads broadsheet newspapers, and watched the world news)?

OK, possibly an extreme example, however Europeans in general and British in particular should think twice before being all "holier than thou" about our world knowledge. We tend to know this stuff because it's relevant to where we live and how history played out to get us here.. it's not particularly relevant to young American children so why should we expect them to know it (or to care)?

Aye mate this is an old theme here and I have defended American views on Europe here before using exactly your argument. But given the US's colonial history it should be within every US-educated citizen to name the nations that colonised North America; Britain, Spain, France, Netherlands. And since the US fought in two world wars against them, maybe add Germany to that list?

Maybe I shoulldn't have thrown in the poor response to World Geography, as my main point was that standards and achievement across the board are lower than in Scotland.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by Dixie Chicken

Maybe I shoulldn't have thrown in the poor response to World Geography, as my main point was that standards and achievement across the board are lower than in Scotland.

how do they turn it around then do you think? there output across all disciplines of science, technology and the arts pishes on everyone else and not just because of population size, ie they do so on a per capita basis.

how do they manage that, if our superior education system produces a porcine public sector, mediocre sporting, artistic and scientific output, and a huge amount of call centres?

[Bartok]

Originally Posted by egb_hibs

there output across all disciplines of science, technology and the arts pishes on everyone else and not just because of population size, ie they do so on a per capita basis.

Is that true though? I don't know exactly what you mean by output. The arts is something I know a little more about than science and technology, and I'd say that generally speaking Europe was miles ahead in standards.