Berwick upon Tweed - HibeesBounce.com

**cavalier** · 12-02-08, 09:24

What do bouncers think about this story then?

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**ZemmamasBarnet** · 12-02-08, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavalier
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What do bouncers think about this story then?

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Excellent, who else can we pick up on a Bosman?

**Jack** · 12-02-08, 09:49

I think a lot has to do with the SNP doing what its best at – sniping at the English!

But seriously IMO healthcare is better (and better organised) in Scotland and there's free personal care as well, so the old folk of Berwick upon Tweed would be right for it.

I really cant think of any other reason they would want to make the change
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**hibeeshibs** · 12-02-08, 10:24

Quite interesting that the local poll found that 77% of those that voted would be in favour of switching
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That surprised me so it did
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Can we not do a wee swap though? Say... Gorgie for Berwick?

**beefy** · 12-02-08, 10:35

Will they move the town up a bit or the border down a bit
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Colr · 12-02-08, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack1957
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I think a lot has to do with the SNP doing what its best at – sniping at the English!

But seriously IMO healthcare is better (and better organised) in Scotland and there's free personal care as well, so the old folk of Berwick upon Tweed would be right for it.

I really cant think of any other reason they would want to make the change
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On the basis of the better NHS and education funding they could probably persuade London to become part of Scotland

**Green Sleeves** · 12-02-08, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by hibeeshibs
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Quite interesting that the local poll found that 77% of those that voted would be in favour of switching
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That surprised me so it did
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Can we not do a wee swap though? Say... Gorgie for Berwick?

And Glasgow for Newcastle?
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**Green Sleeves** · 12-02-08, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by beefy
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Will they move the town up a bit or the border down a bit
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Seriously, there's another possible motive for this:

In 1999, Westminster, backed up by Donald Dewar and the feeble New Labour cabal in Holyrood, moved the border with England up a few miles north of Berwick. The SNP opposed this at the time, not surprisingly.

The purpose of this was a blatant smash-and-grab raid on Scottish territorial waters. By moving the angle of the Border, it allowed the invisible dotted line that goes out into the North Sea to move up a few degrees and move a large chunk of territorial waters that contain gas reserves and some oil reserves into English territorial waters.

Take Berwick back and we put the gas and oil reserves back into what would be considered Scottish territorial waters. i.e. where they were up until 1999.

Question to those who think this is just the SNP picking a fight with London: where were you in 1999 when New Labour - north and south - did the dirty on Scotland?

**gun ainm** · 12-02-08, 11:38

seems clear to me - if theres a majority in favour of being governed by Edinburgh rather than London then no problem. FWIW i think we'd maybe pick up territory as far south as York if Berwick set a democratic precedent...
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**Stirlinghibee** · 12-02-08, 12:12

The whole of the north east of England should have this choice. I regularly tell the punters I work beside that they are more like us than than the parts of Englandastan I have to visit when I go south of Leeds.

It's a wonder Labour did'nt post the border at Dunbar, so the line could go due north...

vasco de gama · 12-02-08, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Sleeves
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Seriously, there's another possible motive for this:

In 1999, Westminster, backed up by Donald Dewar and the feeble New Labour cabal in Holyrood, moved the border with England up a few miles north of Berwick. The SNP opposed this at the time, not surprisingly.

The purpose of this was a blatant smash-and-grab raid on Scottish territorial waters. By moving the angle of the Border, it allowed the invisible dotted line that goes out into the North Sea to move up a few degrees and move a large chunk of territorial waters that contain gas reserves and some oil reserves into English territorial waters.

Take Berwick back and we put the gas and oil reserves back into what would be considered Scottish territorial waters. i.e. where they were up until 1999.

Question to those who think this is just the SNP picking a fight with London: where were you in 1999 when New Labour - north and south - did the dirty on Scotland?

Are you sure about this? I'm pretty sure Berwick has been officially part of engerland for the past 700 years. I've often travelled up and down that part of the country in the last 35 years and don't recall the borderposts ever changing location...

**Dub** · 12-02-08, 12:43

Quote:

The myth started because the Treaty of Everlasting Peace [between Scotland and England in 1502] stated that Berwick was of England but not in England, so Berwick was always mentioned separately in Acts of Parliament.”

There you go, B upon T can join who they want.

If this is to be believed
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**Green Sleeves** · 12-02-08, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by vasco de gama
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Are you sure about this? I'm pretty sure Berwick has been officially part of engerland for the past 700 years. I've often travelled up and down that part of the country in the last 35 years and don't recall the borderposts ever changing location...

The common law land border hasn't changed as such but the territorial waters have changed as a result of the change in the points of triangulation taken at the border, if that makes sense.

I'll try and dig out the legislation from 1999. It was all done under the auspices of a change in fisheries waters but many who opposed this at the time questioned the actual implications of this - something that wont be known for sure until the Independence settlement is negotiated.

**SG7nil** · 12-02-08, 13:00

They'd be better off staying in Englund, the weather in Scotland can be shocking especially in winter!
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vasco de gama · 12-02-08, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Sleeves
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The common law land border hasn't changed as such but the territorial waters have changed as a result of the change in the points of triangulation taken at the border, if that makes sense.

I'll try and dig out the legislation from 1999. It was all done under the auspices of a change in fisheries waters but many who opposed this at the time questioned the actual implications of this - something that wont be known for sure until the Independence settlement is negotiated.

That makes sense - but then if it was the case that they just changed the angle of trajectory into the waters rather than the land-border, they could just do the same even if they change the land-border to make Berwick Scottish again. Seems pretty amazing that they changed the waterline as recently as 1999 but just goes to show loads is done with the majority of us being none the wiser. I guess at the time nobody created a big enough noise.

Colr · 12-02-08, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stennyhibee
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The whole of the north east of England should have this choice. I regularly tell the punters I work beside that they are more like us than than the parts of Englandastan I have to visit when I go south of Leeds.

It's a wonder Labour did'nt post the border at Dunbar, so the line could go due north...

They did. They were offered a regional assembly and they turned it down.

Colr · 12-02-08, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG7nil
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They'd be better off staying in Englund, the weather in Scotland can be shocking especially in winter!
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It is lovely at the moment.

**FTJT** · 12-02-08, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colr
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They did. They were offered a regional assembly and they turned it down.

how is that the same? being offered a superfluous piece of semi-devolved government and getting a plebiscite arent really the same thing

Colr · 12-02-08, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTJT
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how is that the same? being offered a superfluous piece of semi-devolved government and getting a plebiscite arent really the same thing

Not exactly, but the point was they rejected it. It scuppered the governments policy to devolve more power to the regions and so never got past the first hurdle.

**FTJT** · 12-02-08, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colr
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Not exactly, but the point was they rejected it. It scuppered the governments policy to devolve more power to the regions and so never got past the first hurdle.

it wasnt though, the NE assembly was a prescott project which proposed a significant tax in the area for a fundamentally purposeless legislature. same costs as Holyrood but none of the actual devolution - it was voted down on a practical rather than principled basis - the idea of more power to local councils and so on polled extremely well, as i recall.

Colr · 12-02-08, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTJT
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it wasnt though, the NE assembly was a prescott project which proposed a significant tax in the area for a fund

12-02-08, 09:24	#1
cavalier Duke of Radgaria Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Carrick knowe Age: 38 Posts: 5,528 vCash: 500 My Mood: Thanks: 129 Thanked 36 Times in 19 Posts Rep Power: 18	Berwick upon Tweed What do bouncers think about this story then? [Only Registered Users Can See Links. Click Here To Register] __________________ ..."I am the Shape Of Things To Come, the Lord of the Flies, Holder Of The Sword Sinister… The Death-Bringer… I am the one who waits on the edge of your dreams… I am all these things and many more…"

12-02-08, 09:49	#3
Jack Radge Private Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tamsons Age: 51 Posts: 562 vCash: 500 My Mood: Thanks: 18 Thanked 115 Times in 39 Posts Rep Power: 9	Re: Berwick upon Tweed I think a lot has to do with the SNP doing what its best at – sniping at the English! But seriously IMO healthcare is better (and better organised) in Scotland and there's free personal care as well, so the old folk of Berwick upon Tweed would be right for it. I really cant think of any other reason they would want to make the change To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ............... **** Even the Loch Ness Monster's a Hibby **** ............... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-02-08, 10:24	#4
hibeeshibs Radge Private Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northern Ireland/ Edinburgh Age: 22 Posts: 499 vCash: 500 Thanks: 7 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Rep Power: 3	Re: Berwick upon Tweed Quite interesting that the local poll found that 77% of those that voted would be in favour of switching To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. That surprised me so it did To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Can we not do a wee swap though? Say... Gorgie for Berwick? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-02-08, 10:35	#5
beefy Easy Now Radge Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: stuck between the moon and new york city Posts: 7,150 vCash: 500 Thanks: 214 Thanked 670 Times in 292 Posts Rep Power: 34	Re: Berwick upon Tweed Will they move the town up a bit or the border down a bit To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-02-08, 11:38	#9
gun ainm Bounce Flag Co-Owner Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hebrides Age: 37 Posts: 1,817 vCash: 500 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 8	Re: Berwick upon Tweed seems clear to me - if theres a majority in favour of being governed by Edinburgh rather than London then no problem. FWIW i think we'd maybe pick up territory as far south as York if Berwick set a democratic precedent... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. __________________ And still they teach you in your school, about those glorious days of rule, and how it's your destiny to be, superior to me, But if you've any kind of mind, you'll see that all human kind, are the children of this earth, and your hate for them will chew you up and spit you out

12-02-08, 12:12	#10
Stirlinghibee Look aboot ye! radge Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Stirlingshire Age: 41 Posts: 2,267 vCash: 500 My Mood: Thanks: 38 Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts Rep Power: 7	Re: Berwick upon Tweed The whole of the north east of England should have this choice. I regularly tell the punters I work beside that they are more like us than than the parts of Englandastan I have to visit when I go south of Leeds. It's a wonder Labour did'nt post the border at Dunbar, so the line could go due north... __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-02-08, 13:00	#14
SG7nil Pedantic Fact Hunting Radge Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Where the Chief puts the Sunshine Posts: 2,674 vCash: 500 My Mood: Thanks: 141 Thanked 120 Times in 65 Posts Rep Power: 7	Re: Berwick upon Tweed They'd be better off staying in Englund, the weather in Scotland can be shocking especially in winter! To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.