Salmond plots first move in Scottish battle to win back Lewis Chessmen

[Green Sleeves]

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Saw the Lewis chess pieces that are currently on display in Chambers Street at the National Museum and they're incredibly beautiful artefacts. The detail on them is amazing. They're also are an important part of Scotland's cultural heritage. Good to see Alex Salmond making a stand on this to prise them from the grasp of the English imperialist robbers at the British Museum.

[Hampden_Hibby]

Aaah that! I seen this and thought "who the fuck is Lewis Chessmen and where's he being held?"

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Green Sleeves
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Saw the Lewis chess pieces that are currently on display in Chambers Street at the National Museum and they're incredibly beautiful artefacts. The detail on them is amazing. They're also are an important part of Scotland's cultural heritage. Good to see Alex Salmond making a stand on this to prise them from the grasp of the English imperialist robbers at the British Museum.

Whilst I dinnae actually disagree in general, aren't they more part of Norway or Swedens cultural heritage since that's where they were more than likely made?

They're quality fwiw. I made my own chess set when I was a bairn using moulds which replicated them. Will have to take a trip up to the museum as I didn't know they had them there.

[superbam]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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Whilst I dinnae actually disagree in general, aren't they more part of Norway or Swedens cultural heritage since that's where they were more than likely made?

THats what I thought - they were made in Norway and were supposed to be heading for Ireland, but got stuck in a shipwreck off the hebrides. I really wish the SNP wouldnt get so preoccupied with things such as st andrews day and the lewis chessmen, there are more pressing concerns.

[Hampden_Hibby]

Originally Posted by superbam
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THats what I thought - they were made in Norway and were supposed to be heading for Ireland, but got stuck in a shipwreck off the hebrides. I really wish the SNP wouldnt get so preoccupied with things such as st andrews day and the lewis chessmen, there are more pressing concerns.

It's believed they were made in Norway and no one knows how they got here for certain, if they were even made in Norway. A Norwegian could've taught a Scot how to make them here, we'll never know. The only fact we do know for certain is they were found in Scotland so Scottish they are.

Just because there are more pressing concerns in life does not mean a government should abandon all things considered 'lesser'. There's time and room to deal with all sorts of issues.

If all we ever do is slabber on about homelessness, hospitals, starvation and war, the rest of it, the bits that give us relief, pleasure, will fall away to fuck.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Hampden_Hibby
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It's believed they were made in Norway and no one knows how they got here for certain, if they were even made in Norway. A Norwegian could've taught a Scot how to make them here, we'll never know. The only fact we do know for certain is they were found in Scotland so Scottish they are.

Just because there are more pressing concerns in life does not mean a government should abandon all things considered 'lesser'. There's time and room to deal with all sorts of issues.

If all we ever do is slabber on about homelessness, hospitals, starvation and war, the rest of it, the bits that give us relief, pleasure, will fall away to fuck.

Fantastic!
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Obviously the SNP are in 'Government'!

[Hampden_Hibby]

Originally Posted by Smurf
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Fantastic!
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Obviously the SNP are in 'Government'!

You know fine well they are in government Smurf, yer arse has been stinging since May! If it's about giving a fuck about Scottish culture then yes, the SNP are in 'Government'.

If you think the return of the chess men is a point to be ridiculed then it says more about you than the matter in hand. But then the British have a track record in holding onto other's artifacts eh?

[Green Sleeves]

Originally Posted by Hampden_Hibby
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You know fine well they are in government Smurf, yer arse has been stinging since May! If it's about giving a fuck about Scottish culture then yes, the SNP are in 'Government'.

If you think the return of the chess men is a point to be ridiculed then it says more about you than the matter in hand. But then the British have a track record in holding onto other's artifacts eh?

They'll be sitting next to the Elgin Marbles in the "Do Not Return To Rightful Owners" display room.

[hibbyharp1875]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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Whilst I dinnae actually disagree in general, aren't they more part of Norway or Swedens cultural heritage since that's where they were more than likely made?

They're quality fwiw. I made my own chess set when I was a bairn using moulds which replicated them. Will have to take a trip up to the museum as I didn't know they had them there.

i had the moulds to ,wax chessmen or plaster if you could get your hands on it , they where cool
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[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Hampden_Hibby
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You know fine well they are in government Smurf, yer arse has been stinging since May! If it's about giving a fuck about Scottish culture then yes, the SNP are in 'Government'.

If you think the return of the chess men is a point to be ridiculed then it says more about you than the matter in hand. But then the British have a track record in holding onto other's artifacts eh?

I just thought that a political party that had finally got into 'Government' after 73 long years of moaning about everything saying they were going to do this and do that would have more immediate priorities..

[Hampden_Hibby]

Originally Posted by Smurf
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I just thought that a political party that had finally got into 'Government' after 73 long years of moaning about everything saying they were going to do this and do that would have more immediate priorities..

And they do have more immediate priorities. But I think Salmond taking 2 seconds to say "give us our chess men back" hardly contributes to wholesale closures of schools and hospitals.

I mean, FFS, other governments when not dealing with the bread and butter of daily life are away cluster bombing babies so I reckon asking for some chess pieces back is pretty tame eh?

Almost refreshing to live under a government that spends it's spare time trying to take back what is their's as opposed to taking what isn't their's! Enjoy.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by Hampden_Hibby
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And they do have more immediate priorities. But I think Salmond taking 2 seconds to say "give us our chess men back" hardly contributes to wholesale closures of schools and hospitals.

I mean, FFS, other governments when not dealing with the bread and butter of daily life are away cluster bombing babies so I reckon asking for some chess pieces back is pretty tame eh?

Almost refreshing to live under a government that spends it's spare time trying to take back what is their's as opposed to taking what isn't their's! Enjoy.

It has been a very good 8 months for the SNP.

On the surface at least. Pity there's no credible opposition to highlight a hell of a lot of manifesto broken promises though..

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Smurf
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It has been a very good 8 months for the SNP.

On the surface at least. Pity there's no credible opposition to highlight a hell of a lot of manifesto broken promises though..

For the fucking umpteenth time, they're a minority government! How exactly can you expect someone opposed by virtually the entire rest of the parliament to get through legislation when they are in a minority?

FWIW I reckon they will end up putting a vote up on the vast majority of their manifesto so that when they continually lose to the block of the Lib Dems, Labour, and Tories they will be able to turn round to the electorate and say "all these parties are the same, and they have blocked a, b, and c. This is why you should give us an overall majority in the upcoming election". But there is no point in doing it just now, far better to do it closer to the next election for the Scottish Parliament. Which is the politically savvy thing to do imo.

[Smurf]

Originally Posted by wee 162
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For the fucking umpteenth time, they're a minority government! How exactly can you expect someone opposed by virtually the entire rest of the parliament to get through legislation when they are in a minority?

FWIW I reckon they will end up putting a vote up on the vast majority of their manifesto so that when they continually lose to the block of the Lib Dems, Labour, and Tories they will be able to turn round to the electorate and say "all these parties are the same, and they have blocked a, b, and c. This is why you should give us an overall majority in the upcoming election". But there is no point in doing it just now, far better to do it closer to the next election for the Scottish Parliament. Which is the politically savvy thing to do imo.

How the fuck does 'minority government' make any difference to broken promises on police numbers, student grants, teacher numbers, nursery provision etc etc?

Ultimately they couldn't give a fuck about their promises IMO.

They took a deliberate political decision to freeze Council Taxes in order to give in effect the middle classes a tax cut.

A freeze on Council Tax for the top tiers is a HUGE Tax Cut for the rich.

'Minority government' didn't stop that being in their budget.

What i find quite interesting was that despite the quite heavy pro-SNP stance on here when this Scottish National Party in GOVERNMENT delivered it's first ever GOVERNMENT budget in over SEVENTY YEARS there was not ONE thread or post about it.

Says it all.

At least your lot in the SSP wee162 would have delivered something interesting not something mirroring UK New Labour 1997 in an attempt to politically appeal to 'Middle Scotland'.

But then at least GB started a process of wealth redistribution in 1997. Swinney 2007 gave tax cuts to the rich.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by superbam
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THats what I thought - they were made in Norway and were supposed to be heading for Ireland, but got stuck in a shipwreck off the hebrides. I really wish the SNP wouldnt get so preoccupied with things such as st andrews day and the lewis chessmen, there are more pressing concerns.

Send the Elgin marbles back to Elgin!!!
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Maybe he could lead by example and send everything in the Chambers Street and Kelvingrove Museums back to where they come from.

[Green Sleeves]

Originally Posted by Colr
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Send the Elgin marbles back to Elgin!!!
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Maybe he could lead by example and send everything in the Chambers Street and Kelvingrove Museums back to where they come from.

To be fair to Kelvingrove Museum when Sioux Indians asked for the return of a "ghost shirt" that was worn at Wounded Knee they got it back.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Green Sleeves
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To be fair to Kelvingrove Museum when Sioux Indians asked for the return of a "ghost shirt" that was worn at Wounded Knee they got it back.

I remember that - and was unconvinced - I think it was the museum at the cathedral, but the broader issue is that museums are placed to educate about other cultures. There would be little value in sending everything back where ot came from as nobody much would see it. Kelvingrove is full of euopean armour, for example, if I recall, a good deal of it french, german, spanish and english. If they are sincere in their narrow nationalism, they would send it all back. Chambers Street is full of dinosaurs that don't come from Scotland. That Watt and Boulton engine is from London. There's loads more examples.

[Hampden_Hibby]

Originally Posted by Colr
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I remember that - and was unconvinced - I think it was the museum at the cathedral, but the broader issue is that museums are placed to educate about other cultures. There would be little value in sending everything back where ot came from as nobody much would see it. Kelvingrove is full of euopean armour, for example, if I recall, a good deal of it french, german, spanish and english. If they are sincere in their narrow nationalism, they would send it all back. Chambers Street is full of dinosaurs that don't come from Scotland. That Watt and Boulton engine is from London. There's loads more examples.

So it's now narrow nationalism for a country to request the return of something?

Is Egypt guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Rosetta Stone returned?
Is Greece guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Elgin Marbles returned?
Is Tajikistan guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Oxus Treasure returned?
Is Kenya guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Tsavo lions returned?
Is China guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Taiwan ancient artifacts returned?
Is Ethiopa guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting an obelisk returned?
Is Italy guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting an Etruscan chariot returned?
Is Peru guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Machu Picchu Inca artifacts returned?
Is Australia guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting Aboriginal bark etchings returned?
Is Wales guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Salem Painting returned?
Is Nigeria guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Benin Bronzes returned?
Is France guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the remains of Napoleon III returned?
Is Slovenia guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting Istria's jewels returned?
Is Iran guilty of narrow nationalism for wanting the Halil Rud artifacts reurned?

Or is it only in Scotland and only because it's an SNP government that it's narrow nationalism Col?

One of the more interesting things about having a 'nationalist' government is how whenever they do something that other countries do as a matter of course, they are accused of all sorts. Let's hope when full independence does come, this unionist cringe will eventually disappear.

By the way, no one is saying every single thing from every single museum is to be returned. That's just polarising the subject to a ridiculous degree.

And incidentally, Green Sleeves is right, it was Kelvingrove Museum. The shirt had been given to the city of Glasgow. Following consultation with the citizens of this city, both the people and the Council had no hesitation in handing it back in July 1999 to the people it clearly meant more to. That was the civilised, correct thing to do.