a golden generation?

[egb_hibs]

i nurse a fear.

well two really; one little one - that as usual, trying to grapple with an idea may be seen as enthusiastic for it's implications - ie i will be taken to be advocating something here.

and more to the point, that i may be right.

the main fear is this; i harbour a fear that our whole world view may be deformed by being the tail end of a 'golden generation'.

what i mean is this; societies grow up within what by our standards would be considered an authoritarian-conservative set of structures. then a generation 'breaks free' and is on top of the world being through being liberated from the former but also, crucially, anchored by it. they therefore enjoy a new liberty but are (inadvertantly) restrained by where they came from. their progeny - and more pertintently - their progenies progeny become progressively remote from the 'anchors' whereafter the dream turns sour.

i think we might be seeing this in britain today, where bearing in mind that the poor's generational cycle is quicker than the middle classes, we are, at different speeds, seeing the emergence of existential problems that strike at the heart of the viability of our society.

all but the youngest of us won't live to see this theory tested, but i believe ireland and spain might be the testers of it. both are a generation or two behind us in this trend and thus, i would suggest, in it's 'sweet spot'. they have abandoned the stiflingly authoritarian cultures they came from, but are currently embracing new found freedoms, within the contexts of people that have sprung from secure family units.

if, as i predict, they follow us from a peak (in their case measured by international happiness indices which probably didn't exist when we were topping out) into a slough, then it would confirm what i suspect to be a disturbing truth. namely, that this hot spot is unsustainable, and what i as a libertarian rail from, may actually be true. that is to say, that in the long game what we have is a selfish cash in on our own parts, and a more equitable inter-generational contract demands a much more sternly and frugally managed game.

if you will; discuss.

[Colr]

Yer a right miserable feck at times. Why don't you cheer up?
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[SG7nil]

EGB.. I see (bizzarely for once) where you are coming from....

In fact, very similar thoughts have often flitted in and out of my (semi) consciousness over the years but I've never been able to consign my thoughts to paper (or computer) nearly so eloquently.

Where does it all end though... do the grandchildren of the "Chav generation" eventually realise that if they want to escape from their self created lawless and wild society that they need to be self policing, do they "Rebel" and become model citizens against the flow of societys norms....

I certainly hope this phenomenon is cyclical and not a continuous downward spiral.. if only for my childrens sake.

[Colr]

Reminds me of third generation theory in business. First builds it up, second goes further but understands the work put in by the first and the ethos of business, third tends to blow the whole thing - seen it happen a few times.

[Dub]

Originally Posted by Colr
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Yer a right miserable feck at times. Why don't you cheer up?
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Originally Posted by SG7nil
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EGB.. I see (bizzarely for once) where you are coming from....

In fact, very similar thoughts have often flitted in and out of my (semi) consciousness over the years but I've never been able to consign my thoughts to paper (or computer) nearly so eloquently.

Where does it all end though... do the grandchildren of the "Chav generation" eventually realise that if they want to escape from their self created lawless and wild society that they need to be self policing, do they "Rebel" and become model citizens against the flow of societys norms....

I certainly hope this phenomenon is cyclical and not a continuous downward spiral.. if only for my childrens sake.

Thank fukk someone explained it in easier to understand terms. Personally, I was struggling to grasp what the fewkk EGB was on about but if your response hits at the heart of the angst ridden ones OP then its all clear to me now.

However, concentrating solely on the Chav example you brought up S, there has been lawlessness for years and years. As a young lad being brought up in Broomhouse a good many years ago there was lawlessness and it certainly wasnt confined to Broomie. Every other council scheme [misnomer if ever there was one - exactly wtf was your scheme] had the law of the jungle [not just clerie
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] and although I havent frequented any council schemes for ages i'm sure they still do. Are these areas self policing? How would the chav factor affect kids who are not subjects of burberry the great chav god.

Am I completely on the wrong track?

[SG7nil]

Originally Posted by Dub
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Thank fukk someone explained it in easier to understand terms. Personally, I was struggling to grasp what the fewkk EGB was on about but if your response hits at the heart of the angst ridden ones OP then its all clear to me now.

However, concentrating solely on the Chav example you brought up S, there has been lawlessness for years and years. As a young lad being brought up in Broomhouse a good many years ago there was lawlessness and it certainly wasnt confined to Broomie. Every other council scheme [misnomer if ever there was one - exactly wtf was your scheme] had the law of the jungle [not just clerie
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
] and although I havent frequented any council schemes for ages i'm sure they still do. Are these areas self policing? How would the chav factor affect kids who are not subjects of burberry the great chav god.

Am I completely on the wrong track?

But the point EGB is making ( I think) is that somewhere buried deep in your subconscious is the fact that you knew that your mum and dad would never have condoned the lawlessness that you were indulging in...
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contrast that to your own offspring (if you have any) who by now know that you were a tearaway in your day so can hardly begrudge them of their hi-jinks... (and if anything, they'll try to outdo any misdemeanours that you did).

So is it a cycle of ups and downs or a constant downward spiral ??? help me EGB!
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[Dub]

Originally Posted by SG7nil
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But the point EGB is making ( I think) is that somewhere buried deep in your subconscious is the fact that you knew that your mum and dad would never have condoned the lawlessness that you were indulging in...
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contrast that to your own offspring (if you have any) who by now know that you were a tearaway in your day so can hardly begrudge them of their hi-jinks... (and if anything, they'll try to outdo any misdemeanours that you did).

So is it a cycle of ups and downs or a constant downward spiral ??? help me EGB!
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My mum and dad were black affronted by the antics me and two of my brothers got up to. I dont have any kids [for which EGB has soundly berated me in the past, not filling up Scotland with a new population and all that malarky] but both said brothers [herts ****s that they are] do have. None of their offspring is ever in any kind of trouble and I dont know if thats anything to do with the brothers or their spouses. I suspect the latter, I certainly wouldnt argue with either of the mrs finlaysons on offer thats for darn sure. It would be difficult, make that impossible, at the moment to guage what long term effect if any my ne
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s and nieces being crime free will have on their offspring in the future. If they turn out to be bad 'uns does that mean that there is a generation jump for these things which make crime et al self perpetuating.

[egb_hibs]

Originally Posted by SG7nil
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But the point EGB is making ( I think) is that somewhere buried deep in your subconscious is the fact that you knew that your mum and dad would never have condoned the lawlessness that you were indulging in...
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
contrast that to your own offspring (if you have any) who by now know that you were a tearaway in your day so can hardly begrudge them of their hi-jinks... (and if anything, they'll try to outdo any misdemeanours that you did).

So is it a cycle of ups and downs or a constant downward spiral ??? help me EGB!
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i'm quite sure the situation is salvagable. the same sort of things have happened before.

my point is more about whether the conditions we enjoy right now can't be sustained. i suspect the salvaging will be a return to a more authoritarian order - new labour seem to be starting down this road actually.