Brown & Police

[Colr]

The decision to hold back part of the police pay increase this year was taken "in the national interest", Prime Minister Gordon Brown has told MPs.

Mr Brown, who said he would be willing to meet "people" to talk about the pay issue, said "the bigger picture" was the need to keep inflation down.

What a tosser! With the exception of the over paid mediocrities in NHS management and the porters Labour have been worse than the Tories at riding public sector workers raw.

[Stirlinghibee]

Originally Posted by Colr

The decision to hold back part of the police pay increase this year was taken "in the national interest", Prime Minister Gordon Brown has told MPs.

Mr Brown, who said he would be willing to meet "people" to talk about the pay issue, said "the bigger picture" was the need to keep inflation down.

What a tosser! With the exception of the over paid mediocrities in NHS management and the porters Labour have been worse than the Tories at riding public sector workers raw.

Thank goodness for devolution. At least we see the worth in giving these guys their full whack and not holding any back.

I wonder what nation Brown is meaning?

[Hibee Kev]

Originally Posted by Stennyhibee

Thank goodness for devolution. At least we see the worth in giving these guys their full whack and not holding any back.

I wonder what nation Brown is meaning?

I noticed Brown got quizzed along these lines at PMQ's yesterday, something like "why is a police constable in Linlithgow's starting salary £1k more than their english counterpart?" Can't remember what his reponse was.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Hibee Kev

I noticed Brown got quizzed along these lines at PMQ's yesterday, something like "why is a police constable in Linlithgow's starting salary £1k more than their english counterpart?" Can't remember what his reponse was.

Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): A police officer in Linlithgow is now paid more than a police officer in Lichfield for doing exactly the same job. Is that fair? Is that right?

The Prime Minister: What is happening in Scotland is this: to pay the police more, the planned increase of 500 policemen has been suspended. I know what my constituents and the hon. Gentleman’s constituents would prefer—that there were police on the streets. We have more police in this country on the streets, helping us, than at any time in our history. I more than anybody would like to be able to say to the police that we could pay their wages and their salary rise in full, but I have to say to them that no policeman and no person across the country would thank us if their pay rise was wiped out by inflation—and no party should know that better than the Opposition, given that there was 10 per cent. inflation in the 1990s. That is why the awards are being staged. Over the last 10 years, police pay has risen by 39 per cent., and by 9 per cent. in real terms. We have managed to combine that with having rises in police numbers and the biggest police force in history. That is the policy of the Government.

Hansard.

Any debates in the House Of Commons are recorded in Hansard. Reasonably interesting at times, and it's funny when you read it how different a perspective you get when all you get is the content rather than the presentation which comes across strongly on tele and radio.

[Decal Joe]

Originally Posted by Hibee Kev

I noticed Brown got quizzed along these lines at PMQ's yesterday, something like "why is a police constable in Linlithgow's starting salary £1k more than their english counterpart?" Can't remember what his reponse was.

That's not true, a PC in London would receive about £1500 more than one in Linlithgow due to the weighting.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by Decal Joe

That's not true, a PC in London would receive about £1500 more than one in Linlithgow due to the weighting.

Yeh, like it costs £2500 a year more to live in London than Linlithgow!!!

London weighting was considerably more before Labour got involved and was scrapped for the NHS....and that was before housing costs rose by 3fold.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Colr

Yeh, like it costs £2500 a year more to live in London than Linlithgow!!!

London weighting was considerably more before Labour got involved and was scrapped for the NHS....and that was before housing costs rose by 3fold.

The higher price of living in London is almost purely down to the cost of housing. Messages aren't dearer, transport isn't more expensive, and council tax doesn't cost more (or much more) than anywhere else.

So it's not the cost of living, it's to do with one element of that.

So why should our scottish tax money be going towards over-inflating the housing market in London which has a knock on effect in the rest of the country

[Colr]

Originally Posted by wee 162

The higher price of living in London is almost purely down to the cost of housing. Messages aren't dearer, transport isn't more expensive, and council tax doesn't cost more (or much more) than anywhere else.

So it's not the cost of living, it's to do with one element of that.

So why should our scottish tax money be going towards over-inflating the housing market in London which has a knock on effect in the rest of the country

Transport is more expensive. I pay £105 a month for my travel card and I only live in Zone 3 (there a 6 zones), Council Tax is much more expensive.

Don't even go there with who contributes the most tax in the UK. If London was independent, you'd all be on gruel.

[HibeeJibee]

Maybe the police's above-inflation pay rises should be related to improving performance. Oh ...

On the second bit of this argument - should the police be allowed to strike? Absolutely not IMO. Never.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Colr

Transport is more expensive. I pay £105 a month for my travel card and I only live in Zone 3 (there a 6 zones), Council Tax is much more expensive.

Don't even go there with who contributes the most tax in the UK. If London was independent, you'd all be on gruel.

Fair enough, that is dearer transport wise than Edinburgh, but you do have a tube, overground rail links, light railway etc which hugely cuts down on the time that it takes to get across the city meaning that people can live much further away from their work. A 4 weekly pass for Edinburgh transport which gets you only on buses costs £35 for four weeks. So I'll give you that one no probs.

Council tax is not much dearer. Camden was off the top of my head and I guess it would be fairly dear although I'm willing to be corrected on that if someone knows different.
Camden Edinburgh
Band A £867.16 £779.33
Band B £1,011.69 £909.22
Band C £1,156.21 £1021.61
Band D £1,300.74 £1169.00
Band E £1,589.79 £1428.78
Band F £1,878.85 £1688.56
Band G £2,167.90 £1915.52
Band H £2,601.48

London contributes lots to the national economy, in no small part due to huge amounts of public spending from national taxation which is spent there.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Fair enough, that is dearer transport wise than Edinburgh, but you do have a tube, overground rail links, light railway etc which hugely cuts down on the time that it takes to get across the city meaning that people can live much further away from their work. A 4 weekly pass for Edinburgh transport which gets you only on buses costs £35 for four weeks. So I'll give you that one no probs.

Council tax is not much dearer. Camden was off the top of my head and I guess it would be fairly dear although I'm willing to be corrected on that if someone knows different.
Camden Edinburgh
Band A £867.16 £779.33
Band B £1,011.69 £909.22
Band C £1,156.21 £1021.61
Band D £1,300.74 £1169.00
Band E £1,589.79 £1428.78
Band F £1,878.85 £1688.56
Band G £2,167.90 £1915.52
Band H £2,601.48

London contributes lots to the national economy, in no small part due to huge amounts of public spending from national taxation which is spent there.

Does that include the precept? The GLA get another £300 a year or so. I know I pay more than that. £500 a year eats into that £2500 weighting.... and remember the properties tend to be in higher bands for their size as the prices are higher. Most flats will be in Band D or E.

London generates WAY more in tax than it gets back.

[wee 162]

Originally Posted by Colr

Does that include the precept? The GLA get another £300 a year or so. I know I pay more than that. £500 a year eats into that £2500 weighting.... and remember the properties tend to be in higher bands for their size as the prices are higher. Most flats will be in Band D or E.

London generates WAY more in tax than it gets back.

Only if you don't include indirect spending such as salaries for the civil service etc. And only if you include the companies based in London which declare profits for the whole country as being from London (ie Marks & Spencer are based in London so their profits would be declared there).

Actually I will need to find where I seen the figures for this, now I think about it it might have been the South East including London, and not just London itself. Can't mind where I seen it though, but I'll see if I can mind.

One thing to bear in mind though. The cost of Portcullis House which is nothing but a glorified office block next to the Houses Of Parliament cost more than the Scottish Parliament. Funnily enough that's not something which is screamed about when subsidy junkies are mentioned...

No idea on the precept thing. Took it from Up My Street.

[Colr]

Originally Posted by wee 162

Only if you don't include indirect spending such as salaries for the civil service etc. And only if you include the companies based in London which declare profits for the whole country as being from London (ie Marks & Spencer are based in London so their profits would be declared there).

Actually I will need to find where I seen the figures for this, now I think about it it might have been the South East including London, and not just London itself. Can't mind where I seen it though, but I'll see if I can mind.

One thing to bear in mind though. The cost of Portcullis House which is nothing but a glorified office block next to the Houses Of Parliament cost more than the Scottish Parliament. Funnily enough that's not something which is screamed about when subsidy junkies are mentioned...

No idea on the precept thing. Took it from Up My Street.

You take the public sector out of most regions and the effect will be far greater.

The areas of the UK that are subsidised are the North, Wales and Nrn Irn. You can't ignore the tax levied on the city.

There is a strong lobby the extend the boundaries of the GLA into the Southeast so it properly reflects the city-region in planning terms. Londons direct economic influence is estimated to extend 80 miles from its core.

But back to the point London weighting - where it still exists - is laughable.

[Colr]

Back in 2002, the TUC reckoned it should be £4,000.

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/pa...Item04AppC.pdf